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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan  (Read 99298 times)
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December 16, 2013, 08:02:19 PM
 #481

It's an unwinable bet. One of the parties to the bet gets to judge whether the conditions have been met.

The whole purpose of the bet is to put the other party to the bet on the defensive. To prove.... nothing. People have opinions of other people, of how businesses are run. Some people win, some people lose. Some people like to stick it to the man. Whatever.

Josh, you have a habit of offending your customers. You feel slighted, and many feel the slighting is fair. You could use a good PR guy. When you get posted on slashdot and half the comments are criticisms of you personally, you might want to reconsider how you interface with the world. How you might do that, or if you do that at all is entirely up to you. You're responsible for your own actions.

Keltic, you have such a strong sense of injustice, but it'll get you nowhere. Josh doesn't care about your feelings. Josh is a businessman. His job is to get the money out of your pocket and into his coffers. He goes a little further than some might, but he seems to deliver the product eventually and even get it right most of the time. The business he is in is in an entirely new frontier - almost the Wild West. Adjust your expectations accordingly. He doesn't need your business. He's back-ordered - there are a dozen other customers to replace you.

To everyone else: BFL has a crappy reputation, and they've earned it. They delivered later than late on a major product line. Consider this: they sold many MANY more units than they imagined they would. The money was rolling in. It was only when they were deep in order-book trouble that they had any inkling of the fulfillment problem they had. It is HARD to scale up a production business. I know. I have had to do it multiple times. The main thing that had them in trouble was the pre-orders. With the Monarch they have repeated the mistake with pre-orders, but they have simplified the production cycle greatly in a learned response to the complexity of their previous product lines. Subject to ASIC availability, they'll be able to fire out Monarchs at an unprecedented rate. Getting to shipping will be hard, but once they're there, they (and their customers) will have a much easier time of it. If they get to where they can develop the next generation on this generation's earnings, there will be no need for pre-orders. They should plan accordingly.

Everyone, lighten up. Josh, no need to be so defensive. Keltic, take a deep breath. Let's wait and see what happens next.

Too much butt-hurt in this thread.
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December 16, 2013, 09:01:40 PM
 #482

Quote
I love how you always resort to argumentum ad hominem?
I can back up my statements. Can you do the same?

Care to take the bet?

Yes, I'll bet any amount you want that you are unable to backup your statements.  However, since you are a confirmed liar, you must escrow any amount you want to bet with a trusted third party, as I do not believe for one hot second you would follow through with any bet you make without someone forcing your hand.

PS - you may want to look up the definition of an ad hominem argument, since you it's painfully clear you have no idea what it actually is.

PPS - Here's my prediction of KelticFox's response:  "But but but... I won't bet because ______ (fill in the blank with whatever lame excuse you can think of)."  You will waffle, hem and haw just like little Bryan Micon did when confronted with the actual reality of making an escrowed bet against your lying.  It's impossible for twats like you to actually follow through with your claims. You like to talk all sorts of shit, but when the rubber meets the road, you waffle and come up with some pathetic excuse as to why you won't make the bet.

You pick the amount of the bet, I don't care what it is... 1 BTC or 1000 BTC (or more if you prefer).  You escrow it, I'll escrow it and then you provide the proof of your claims.  If you fail to provide proof of all your quoted claims within 24 hours, you lose the bet.  If you provide proof of all your claims within 24 hours, you win the bet.  JohnK, if he's willing to take the escrow, is fine with me and he can keep 10% of my winnings.



1. Argumentum ad hominem means to attack the character of the person who counter argues your stance in order to invalidate their position. It's also a psychological avoidance technique to detract away from the central issue.


2. I've PM'd John.K to ask him to act as an escrow agent. I've stated the bet is for 1BTC as that is what I originally stated.
When I've received the address, I will deposit the 1BTC. When you have deposited your 1BTC, I will release the evidence to my statements.



Be glad that I'll take your 1BTC and buy Homeless Voucher books for £35 each (for 10 vouchers).
At current prices ($700) you can feel all fuzzy that your BTC is being used to give 120 people a bed for the night, a hot meal, a shower, access to laundry facilities and the outreach program at O'Hanlon House in Oxford, UK.

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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December 16, 2013, 10:16:44 PM
 #483

Quote
I love how you always resort to argumentum ad hominem?
I can back up my statements. Can you do the same?

Care to take the bet?

Yes, I'll bet any amount you want that you are unable to backup your statements.  However, since you are a confirmed liar, you must escrow any amount you want to bet with a trusted third party, as I do not believe for one hot second you would follow through with any bet you make without someone forcing your hand.

PS - you may want to look up the definition of an ad hominem argument, since you it's painfully clear you have no idea what it actually is.

PPS - Here's my prediction of KelticFox's response:  "But but but... I won't bet because ______ (fill in the blank with whatever lame excuse you can think of)."  You will waffle, hem and haw just like little Bryan Micon did when confronted with the actual reality of making an escrowed bet against your lying.  It's impossible for twats like you to actually follow through with your claims. You like to talk all sorts of shit, but when the rubber meets the road, you waffle and come up with some pathetic excuse as to why you won't make the bet.

You pick the amount of the bet, I don't care what it is... 1 BTC or 1000 BTC (or more if you prefer).  You escrow it, I'll escrow it and then you provide the proof of your claims.  If you fail to provide proof of all your quoted claims within 24 hours, you lose the bet.  If you provide proof of all your claims within 24 hours, you win the bet.  JohnK, if he's willing to take the escrow, is fine with me and he can keep 10% of my winnings.



How about you honor your other bets like http://www.bitcoindf.org/ before making other bets? Like real men do!

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
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December 17, 2013, 02:04:00 AM
 #484

Hey Josh, because I know you're watching this thread... Can you please go give BFL Customer Service a light kick up the bum for me?

Probably should put something here.... Maybe an LTC address?
LeNdJidEvsyogSu2KbC1u3bfJSdcjACFsF
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December 17, 2013, 02:13:45 AM
 #485

How about you honor your other bets like http://www.bitcoindf.org/ before making other bets? Like real men do!

Inaba is not a real man.  Or any kind of man at all.  He is a low worm.
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December 17, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
 #486

Quote
I love how you always resort to argumentum ad hominem?
I can back up my statements. Can you do the same?

Care to take the bet?

Yes, I'll bet any amount you want that you are unable to backup your statements.  However, since you are a confirmed liar, you must escrow any amount you want to bet with a trusted third party, as I do not believe for one hot second you would follow through with any bet you make without someone forcing your hand.

PS - you may want to look up the definition of an ad hominem argument, since you it's painfully clear you have no idea what it actually is.

PPS - Here's my prediction of KelticFox's response:  "But but but... I won't bet because ______ (fill in the blank with whatever lame excuse you can think of)."  You will waffle, hem and haw just like little Bryan Micon did when confronted with the actual reality of making an escrowed bet against your lying.  It's impossible for twats like you to actually follow through with your claims. You like to talk all sorts of shit, but when the rubber meets the road, you waffle and come up with some pathetic excuse as to why you won't make the bet.

You pick the amount of the bet, I don't care what it is... 1 BTC or 1000 BTC (or more if you prefer).  You escrow it, I'll escrow it and then you provide the proof of your claims.  If you fail to provide proof of all your quoted claims within 24 hours, you lose the bet.  If you provide proof of all your claims within 24 hours, you win the bet.  JohnK, if he's willing to take the escrow, is fine with me and he can keep 10% of my winnings.



1. Argumentum ad hominem means to attack the character of the person who counter argues your stance in order to invalidate their position. It's also a psychological avoidance technique to detract away from the central issue.


2. I've PM'd John.K to ask him to act as an escrow agent. I've stated the bet is for 1BTC as that is what I originally stated.
When I've received the address, I will deposit the 1BTC. When you have deposited your 1BTC, I will release the evidence to my statements.



Be glad that I'll take your 1BTC and buy Homeless Voucher books for £35 each (for 10 vouchers).
At current prices ($700) you can feel all fuzzy that your BTC is being used to give 120 people a bed for the night, a hot meal, a shower, access to laundry facilities and the outreach program at O'Hanlon House in Oxford, UK.

1) Now that you've finally figured out the definition to the big words you are using, can you tell us how it applies to my statements to you?  No?  I wonder why...  Of course, I suspect I know exactly what you will say, but you need to stop and consider your statement before you hit that post button, because your reasoning is flawed.  Stop and think why it's flawed for a moment, then get back to me.  As usual, like your math, you are wrong.

2)  You just let me know when he's ready.  I look forward to your laughable "evidence." 

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 17, 2013, 06:52:50 PM
 #487


For those playing at home, everything KelticFox has posted is an outright lie. Not surprising from someone who can't even do basic math (BFL backlog cleared in 2047! How did that prediction work out there?) , but none the less it is entertaining to watch pathetic people try to make up things to vilify others... And be so incredibly bad at it.

You don't have to believe me, though. Go ahead and ask him to provide a shred of evidence for his claims.

Josh. Josh. Josh.

I don't know KelticFox, but I *can* independently back his claim, you lying sack of scammer shit.

I have BFL order #100059780 for a 5+2GH/s miner.

Your incompetent monkeys (that were apparently busy mailing 7GH/s miners to people that paid for 5GH/s according to Jody) sent me a 5GH/s miner that I received in the last weeks of October (was out of town and didn't have it in my hands until last weekend of October, wife received it and I'm not sure of the exact day it was delivered).

I have been unable to get any god damn response to get this rectified from you assholes, may you all burn in hell.

On the weekend of November 7 I used the "Technical Support" contact link on butterflylabs.com to report the problem (no follow up to date--40 days and counting)

After hearing nothing, I visited your abandoned hell hole of a support forum that seems to be held together by SloK on November 12 for god-knows why. Was advised to PM BFL_Emily which I did.

On Nov 17 I check my messages on forums.butterflylabs.com, no reply from BFL_Emily. So I proceed to send an email to office@ requesting that the upgrade be refunded. I happen to chance upon BFL_Jonathan being active in the chatbox and after a brief discussion he tells me to shoot an email to rma@ (Sent Nov 17).

On Nov 27 I happen upon BFL_Jonathan in the chatbox again and I tell him I've had no contact or response from rma@. He asks me to PM him the details. I do. BFL_Jonathan does not reply or follow up on the PM he requested.

On Dec 2 BFL_Emily finally replies to the Nov 12 PM with some copypasta that is already everywhere in your forum that essentially asks if I've tried turning it off and on again. I don't see her PM until I visit your site on Dec 9 (despite having email notifications configured) I reply to tell her I've done all that and the device refuses to hash over 6GH/s. Has not replied to my reply.

On Dec 9 BFL_Jody blogs about stupid customers that supposedly complain about getting higher-rated devices than they order. HARDY HAR HAR. That's so fucking funny. (Jody's blog posts *do* happen to be emailed to me).

Current status: Contacted office@, rma@, websites technical support form, BFL_Jonathan in chatbox, PMs to BFL_Emily and BFL_Jonathan and absolutely no progress for over seven weeks.

I have checked the miner repeatedly after powercycles using all the voodoo suggested un your forums while monitoring the USB getinfo using cgminer's "java API stats". The best I've ever been able to manage through numerous power cycles is:

[GetInfo] => DEVICE: BitFORCE SC0x0aFIRMWARE: 1.2.90x0aIAR Executed: NO0x0aCHIP PARALLELIZATION: YES @ 20x0aQUEUE DEPTH:400x0aPROCESSOR 3: 10 engines @ 328 MHz -- MAP: 77660x0aPROCESSOR 7: 10 engines @ 274 MHz -- MAP: 8F7C0x0aTHEORETICAL MAX: 6020 MH/s0x0aENGINES: 200x0aFREQUENCY: 291 MHz0x0aCRITICAL TEMPERATURE: 00x0aTOTAL THERMAL CYCLES: 00x0aXLINK MODE: MASTER0x0aXLINK PRESENT: NO0x0aOK0x0a0x00

This 6.02GH/s is reached in 10% of the time. The other 90% of the time it wants to hash at 5.7GH/s. The +/-10% of the advertised 7GH/s requires that the device hash at least 6.3GH/s.

TL;DR Josh STFU
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December 18, 2013, 12:12:43 AM
 #488

Honestly, I didn't want to bring this up here, but if it is the only way the issue will get sufficient attention to be resolved, I really feel I have no choice. When it is resolved satisfactorily I'll happily delete the message again...

Orders are being fulfilled out of sequence, ie newer orders are being made and fulfilled before older orders even leave production. So far I have seen this happen with four separate orders all made after mine, and all fulfilled before mine. I've been trying to get this sorted out with BFL CS, but have simply been ignored (hence my comment above for the light kick up the bum).

Can we please get this sorted out before BFL turns what was previously a happy customer into yet another raving anti-BFL keyboard warrior?

EDIT:
Ok, so someone went and wiped out a lot of the posts on the thread about Jalapenos being fulfilled out of sequence. Fortunately, I took notes... Total count of orders with Jalapenos in them made after mine yet fulfilled before mine is up to six, and I expect more to come...

EDIT 2: Should have made than seven... Also, here is the thread in question. https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/6949-jalape%F1o-november-orders-only-status-bfl-please-clarify.html

Probably should put something here.... Maybe an LTC address?
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December 18, 2013, 01:33:32 AM
 #489


When clicking thru, it doesnt go to a valid place (aka no content to what the poster claims)

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December 21, 2013, 03:26:52 AM
 #490

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 21, 2013, 09:57:40 AM
 #491

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.


Hey Inaba you missed my post. Why would anyone take a bet with you if you don't honor your past bets? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg3999609#msg3999609

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
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December 21, 2013, 10:31:30 AM
 #492

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.


Actually, I have yet to receive a reply from JohnK. Unfortunately he hasn't been online since the 29th November.
The fact that you're deflecting the blame onto me to preserve your own reputation (which is laughable by the way), I find amusing.

I have come to the conclusion however that you are simply attempting to goad me into an argument as I'm not located in the US, thus a target you believe you can victimise without any possible retribution.

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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December 21, 2013, 12:29:19 PM
 #493

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.


Hey Inaba you missed my post. Why would anyone take a bet with you if you don't honor your past bets? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg3999609#msg3999609

Agreed, I gathered a few decent candidates, here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348305.0

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
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December 21, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
 #494

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.


Actually, I have yet to receive a reply from JohnK. Unfortunately he hasn't been online since the 29th November.
The fact that you're deflecting the blame onto me to preserve your own reputation (which is laughable by the way), I find amusing.

I have come to the conclusion however that you are simply attempting to goad me into an argument as I'm not located in the US, thus a target you believe you can victimise without any possible retribution.

What makes you think I have any idea where you're located? Don't flatter yourself into thinking I give even the smallest shit about a snarky little twat like you.  Deflecting what blame?  You're the one that is lying, you refuse to prove it without a bet (which is fine) but you won't make the bet and you will only claim to bet 1 BTC.  If the truth you claim is there ,why not bet 10 BTC?  It's easy money for you, right?  No... the reality is you know you're a liar, I know your a liar so you won't make any sort of real bet, and if you are somehow forced into making this bet, at least you're only out 1 BTC instead of 10. 

Goad you into what argument?  You make false claims, claim you have proof and fail to back them up.  I tell you I will bet you and to find a trusted escrow and you have yet to do so.  It seems to me that anyone would jump at the chance to score a quick $600 for no work at all, that is, unless you don't really have any proof to back up your lies... then I can understand why you would be waffling. Looks like I called that one from the start!


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 21, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
 #495

...some nonsense...

Way to ignore http://www.bitcoindf.org/ bet again!
Josh is an obvious liar, no possible argument, here. Smiley

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
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December 21, 2013, 09:07:20 PM
 #496

They've pre-sold more then 60,000 monarchs which have missed their power targets by about 70% and the bullet run is expected to now be late march.

Quote
"some units might hit 350W, but most will be 500W or more, expect high end to be 600W"
"which means we may revise the estimate to 350W for the 300GH version, 600GH version being 600W"

Apparently they're also now having thermal expansion detach bumps (like Nvidia in 2008).


Hi - where is the source for this info?

Cheers,

Will

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December 21, 2013, 09:46:53 PM
 #497

They've pre-sold more then 60,000 monarchs which have missed their power targets by about 70% and the bullet run is expected to now be late march.

Quote
"some units might hit 350W, but most will be 500W or more, expect high end to be 600W"
"which means we may revise the estimate to 350W for the 300GH version, 600GH version being 600W"

Apparently they're also now having thermal expansion detach bumps (like Nvidia in 2008).


Hi - where is the source for this info?

Cheers,

Will

Some of it is a quote from BFL_Jonathon in the #butterflylabs room on IRC (who was auth'd as he's set to Op and Enforced) and the rest is from BFL's own forums, particulary the 'Post Sales & Customer Service' and 'Jalapeno & Single SC Support'.

The RMA thing is from personal experience as I submitted a RMA request with debug logs on the 27th November but has been ignored since (my Jalapeno is only running at 1.15Gh/s on 4 engines).
The embedded tracking cookie never replied saying it has been read.

Inaba/BFL_Josh will now say either the logs are fake, it's a smear campaign (as everyone in the room has the same logs) or BFL_Jonathon was hacked. I suspect I'll be called every name under the sun by Inaba/BFL_Josh, but I'm past caring. The funny thing about evidence is that it can make you look like a real lying twat when confronted with it, the irony is that's exactly what he's been calling me.

I suspect I won't be getting that RMA request ever now... but not a big surprise to be honest.

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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December 22, 2013, 12:52:59 AM
 #498

Unsurprisingly, no bet has materialized.  I guess we know what KelticFox's lies are worth!  A big fat zip.


Hey Inaba you missed my post. Why would anyone take a bet with you if you don't honor your past bets? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg3999609#msg3999609

Basically, because they're idiots, which is what Inaba/Josh Zerlan is betting on.  It's worked out pretty well for the BFL scam so far.

No one who is not an idiot should place a bet with the known welsher and thief Inaba/Josh Zerlan, and nobody who is not an idiot should place an "order" with BFL.
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December 22, 2013, 06:40:23 AM
 #499

No one who is not an idiot should place a bet with the known welsher and thief Inaba/Josh Zerlan, and nobody who is not an idiot should place an "order" with BFL.

Just in case anyone forgets:

I am offering up a guarantee of 1000 BTC to charity (I will take suggestions on which charity to donate this to) if BFL does not meet it's power claims within 10% - meaning if BFL's power consumption is more than 66w for a Single SC, we lose the "bet."

Buy & Hold
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December 22, 2013, 07:13:15 AM
 #500

And the lack of evidence and proof continues. No bet. No evidence . No proof... Guess we know what your claims are worth foxy! Man up and admit you lied and we can move on.

I know I will never see my 1 BTC you promised me (you being a liar and all)... So I will tell you how I know you are lying from the get go... We don't have the chips yet... How can we have thermal expansion issues or know power problems without chips? Idiot. This is why everyone knows you are a liar.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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