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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan  (Read 99323 times)
yolo2222
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July 27, 2013, 08:53:55 AM
 #381

I don't condone violence but if there was a time for it I believe the right people should be targeted. How do they just walk away from crap like this with out any repercussions?

Simple.  They target the kind of people for their scams who don't get violent.

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Who do they need to piss off before vigilance is acted on?

People who actually would get violent.



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September 02, 2013, 07:34:16 AM
 #382

Looks like Zerlan sold shares for a BFL minirig [I know, meta-fail] at .7 btc and bought all back just now at .026 claiming everyone made a huge 100%+ profit and should be super-happy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89902.0

srsly cannot believe this is a real human.  

IPO share price is going to be .7 BTC per share, although I am taking some limited orders for pre-IPO at .6 per share at the moment.  Preference for pre-IPO shares will be given to current BFLS share holders if there's more demand than available shares.


I have paid out the final payment for BFLS shares, everyone should have received .026 BTC per share.

BFLS and it's derivative are now closed permanently.  Server, I'm sorry if this upsets you, but it really is the best thing for everyone going forward and nets a tidy profit for everyone who held shares.  Each $600 units worth of shares has paid back $759.2 + whatever it's earned over it's lifetime, which is not an insignificant amount and is > 100% profit on the investment.  I think that's pretty good for a little over a year, personally.

WTF, Inaba. We have paid you Bitcoin, not USD. We buy bitcoin earning machines from you, but not a USD debt notes. How can you end the contract without the consensus of the other side. We are supposed to have ASIC mining machines to mine bitcoin for us.

I am going to write the SEC official a letter complaining about this. You have issued the securities without registration and now you have scammed the security holders.

I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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September 02, 2013, 07:44:02 AM
 #383

IMO please consolidate BFL scam-info here in this 1 thread.  Let's do it all.

-- FCC
-- BBB info
-- How to get refund info
-- Sonny / Zerlan / all other principals info
-- State of Kansas consumer protection whatnots
-- any class action lawsuits [I mean there isn't a lawyer here looking for the 30% headshot on that? they may still have $!]

Spreading it around in many threads both obfuscates the info and pisses off forum members that don't care about BFL or are sick of hearing about it.  Wanna kill them?  burn this thread up with info and I'll promise to attention-whore this shit out of it and get it in Ars Technica / NPR / TheVerge / Forbes all publications I've been quoted in this year

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0

I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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September 02, 2013, 07:51:38 AM
 #384

I just bumped all the front-page scam accusation threads to ask for consolidation.  The fact that Theymos continues to accept ad revenue from BFL when the people have clearly spoken shows his true colors to me.  He must know it's extremely irresponsible to display those ads to new users.  He knows he is taking a small amount of coins to generate a larger take for BFL.  He participated in the Pirate scheme (cashed out early) and IMO is clearly motivated specifically by money.  Quite sad.  This community is more important than money IMO.



The people have spoken Theymos.  IMO we need a large voice to ask not to take BFL ads anymore.  Let's cut the head off the beast and watch it die.  It's already cancer-ridden, but faster is better than slower.

I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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September 02, 2013, 01:00:12 PM
 #385

Now that BFL is clearly denying customer cancellation requests before their order ships they appear to be in pretty clear violation of the mail order rule which is quoted on BFL's own website.

You can attention whore this all day long to the media with some facts and actual regulations they appear to be violating.

According to the BFL website they operate under the FTC mail order rule.  Also according to the BFL website the customer must agree to a two month or more wait for shipment of their order.

I think it would be fair to argue that 2 months or more would not count as a definitive delivery date under the mail order rule, and thus should be considered an indefinite delay.

There does not appear to be a logical or legal reason why they feel these two provisions of the mail order rule they quote on the website don't apply to them.

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;

•a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule


Please note that asking a customer to give up their rights as a consumer does not actually force the consumer into giving up their rights (even if they agree to it).

Next, the canned response from BFL has been that "all sales is final" and customer agreed to it so no refunds will be issued. This however does not relieve them of issuing refunds when customers request one as a sale has not taken place until both parties have fulfilled their obligations (ie customer has paid and seller has shipped).  Until  both are met the two parties have a agreement on an order no sale has taken place and thus "All sales are final" can not come into play before the product ships.

Lastly they have also claimed that since full production has started they have used the pre-order money for parts and thus can not give refunds.  It should be noted that no where do the FTC mention (nor do they care about) "starting production" as any type of a milestone regarding order cancellation.  The only things the FTC cares about is when was the product paid for, when was shipping promised and when/if the product has shipped END OF STORY.


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September 02, 2013, 01:25:14 PM
 #386

According to the BFL website they operate under the FTC mail order rule.  Also according to the BFL website the customer must agree to a two month or more wait for shipment of their order.
Two years is in line with "two months or more" wait for shipment.
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September 02, 2013, 01:37:38 PM
 #387

According to the BFL website they operate under the FTC mail order rule.  Also according to the BFL website the customer must agree to a two month or more wait for shipment of their order.
Two years is in line with "two months or more" wait for shipment.

Agreed, which is why I argued that they have required the customer to agree to an "indefinite delay".

Was there a point you had I missed?
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September 02, 2013, 10:38:58 PM
 #388

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89902.msg3060264#msg3060264

Quote from: Inaba
I have paid out the final payment for BFLS shares, everyone should have received .026 BTC per share.

BFLS and it's derivative are now closed permanently.  Server, I'm sorry if this upsets you, but it really is the best thing for everyone going forward and nets a tidy profit for everyone who held shares.  Each $600 units worth of shares has paid back $759.2 + whatever it's earned over it's lifetime, which is not an insignificant amount and is > 100% profit on the investment.  I think that's pretty good for a little over a year, personally.

I'm not into the prophecy thing.
But that looks like a decent omen to back up PG probation ending previsions. Smiley

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
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September 03, 2013, 01:48:58 AM
 #389

BFL = GARBAGE SCAM 

TERRa TRASH = GARBAGE SCAM


hmm Now what makes me say this?  Is it because they have the bait to prove little units can be shipped to get the bigger orders? 


PFFF Face it they never had the money to support their plan, now they have the money and those who bought into this trash now have to wait until the company comes up with another bait and switch.

DON'T GET SCAMMED, CHECK FIRST = Bitcoinscammers.com
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September 03, 2013, 11:13:20 AM
 #390

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89902.msg3060264#msg3060264

Quote from: Inaba
I have paid out the final payment for BFLS shares, everyone should have received .026 BTC per share.

BFLS and it's derivative are now closed permanently.  Server, I'm sorry if this upsets you, but it really is the best thing for everyone going forward and nets a tidy profit for everyone who held shares.  Each $600 units worth of shares has paid back $759.2 + whatever it's earned over it's lifetime, which is not an insignificant amount and is > 100% profit on the investment.  I think that's pretty good for a little over a year, personally.

I'm not into the prophecy thing.
But that looks like a decent omen to back up PG probation ending previsions. Smiley


I think im going be a lucky one. UK post as my order as 'adviced' which means its en route. BFL as used all the tricks in the book. They know how the system works and they know how long they can bait and switch. They hope monarch would be another but people have realised there game which is a ponzi scheme at the end of the day and they've made A LOT! INABA been josh just proves he a low life silver spooned advertising jerk with no moral compass that would rob his own family no doubt!

Live and learn people, Chaos is at our door step but realise there is more opportunity in a crisis and thats what were seeing now. I tell you all, The system is about to collapse and you better position yourself well! The far east see it and the middle east. Hell, Even most of europe & africa! It's time to be strong and wake up and make your voice heard! Im sorry to say any action made against these would not get anywhere as the monarch as turned into a classic 'cut & run' which is a classic advertising trick to. Offer what you can't possibly deliver, Deliver little of what you promised and run! Sound familiar!

Time to wake up people... Sacred geometry & Unified Lines! It's not the first time we've been lied to and it wont be the last! Good people of this planet need to rise in which ever way you can! Or they may just get what they want if we don't!

This is my advice to you! Look at the bigger picture..... BFL did! There not stupid, There crooks! And crooks are not stupid! There selfish!

Peace to you all and Good luck
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September 06, 2013, 01:07:39 AM
 #391

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.

Looking to review Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
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September 06, 2013, 03:08:13 PM
 #392

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.
Because there's no actual case against BFL.
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September 08, 2013, 09:32:41 PM
 #393

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.
Because FTC and KS AG office are government agencies. Their first goal is to protect the government, i.e the existing monetary monopoly. Letting crooks like BFL operate unpunished in the Bitcoin ecosystem is a smart way of compromising the idea behind Bitcoin.
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September 10, 2013, 07:01:28 PM
 #394

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.

Wahhhhh...why won't mommy and daddy government do something to protect me from my own stupid decisions?..wahhhh!

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September 10, 2013, 08:04:54 PM
 #395

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.

Wahhhhh...why won't mommy and daddy government do something to protect me from my own stupid decisions?..wahhhh!



1)  I agree in principal of "look out for yourself"

2)  If some of us humans happen to live in a borderline police state under the false flag of security we should utilize some of these ill-conceived organs to help destroy BFL.

I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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September 11, 2013, 02:09:47 PM
 #396

Obviously not enough people are contacting the BBB.
http://www.bbb.org/kansas-city/business-reviews/electronic-equipment-and-supplies-wholesale-and-manufacturers/bf-labs-inc-in-overland-park-ks-1000002011
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September 11, 2013, 02:43:28 PM
 #397


26 complaints.

Quote
Customers have complained about delays in receiving pre-ordered products. The company has responded by stating that they do not issue refunds after the build process on the new product has begun. According to a letter sent to customers, refunds would no longer available after April 1, 2013. The company claims that nearly all backlogs will be processed by September 30, 2013.

The BBB is a joke. BFL simply cites their illegal no refund policy and the BBB just drops their "investigation".

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September 11, 2013, 06:39:51 PM
 #398

Illegal and fraudulent no refund policy yes... still it helps to point out how many people are having issues with them if both BBB and FCC complaints are filed.
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September 11, 2013, 06:45:59 PM
 #399


While I still think it is worth a couple minutes to do this, don't expect anything to amount from it other than wasting an about equal time from some BFL slimeball to come up with some transparent lie that the BBB will mindlessly accept.  It will force them to keep paying the BBB their bribes to keep a good rating, at least.  But as others (including me) have pointed out, the BBB is basically a scam operation itself.
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September 11, 2013, 09:15:59 PM
 #400

The BBB is a joke. BFL simply cites their illegal no refund policy and the BBB just drops their "investigation".

 Agreed. And I thought Congress was ineffective... The BBB takes the cake for a completely lackadaisical attitude about due diligence.

 They seem to be just as much of a scam as many of the companies they report on.

 I never understood why the BBB was the butt of so many jokes until I actually dealt with them.
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