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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan  (Read 99307 times)
Kouye
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September 11, 2013, 11:11:37 PM
 #401

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Customers have complained about delays in receiving pre-ordered products. The company has responded by stating that they do not issue refunds after the build process on the new product has begun. According to a letter sent to customers, refunds would no longer available after April 1, 2013. The company claims that nearly all backlogs will be processed by September 30, 2013.

The BBB is a joke. BFL simply cites their illegal no refund policy and the BBB just drops their "investigation".

"nearly" is a much better joke than BBB decision. "nearly" actually made me smile. Cheesy
Remember this backlog clearfest is due within something like... 2 weeks?

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September 11, 2013, 11:34:40 PM
 #402

They don't have any real authority is why. It does however mark BF Labs, should anyone research them, and see just how poorly run a company they are.
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September 12, 2013, 02:23:06 AM
 #403

They don't have any real authority is why. It does however mark BF Labs, should anyone research them, and see just how poorly run a company they are.

An "F" rating would have done that better. Sadly bfl avoided the F rating they richly deserved for lying...by telling more lies.


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September 12, 2013, 03:57:34 PM
 #404

They don't have any real authority is why. It does however mark BF Labs, should anyone research them, and see just how poorly run a company they are.

An "F" rating would have done that better. Sadly bfl avoided the F rating they richly deserved for lying...by telling more lies.



They dropped from a B to C- with my complaint this week. It'll get there if more people file legitimate complaints.
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September 13, 2013, 02:59:01 AM
 #405

They don't have any real authority is why. It does however mark BF Labs, should anyone research them, and see just how poorly run a company they are.

An "F" rating would have done that better. Sadly bfl avoided the F rating they richly deserved for lying...by telling more lies.



They dropped from a B to C- with my complaint this week. It'll get there if more people file legitimate complaints.

The company BFL may be running subpar or not up to some standards we may envision a company should be run but, upon touring their facility, I'm here to state that I'm reversing my position on them after having drunk the proverbial Kool Aid.

I will be posting in the other negative BFL threads outlining my current position and views of which I was not paid for in advance, albeit I did receive a gift after the KC meetup and my travel/lounging expenses were more than compensated.

Josh was truthful when he stated that if you address to him questions and concerns in a civil manner, he will reply in kind. Likewise, demanding shit and speaking foully had, and will continue to be replied also in kind, of which is understandable, albeit I do feel that such a stance from a COO isn't warranted, but whom am I to say what's appropriate.

Josh and Sonny were gracious hosts at the plant and meetup, and would probably answered any question I tossed at them, though I had few, for it only took me a couple minutes of seeing the operation to prove to myself that they're not going anywhere, including Sonny after the 15th, of which was bullshit that I probably started or at least perpetuated.

More info forthcoming in the other threads as I read and catch up, addressing what needs to be addressed.

Bruno

PS: The fuckers served me cherry Kool Aid when I was on record that I desired raspberry. If they're capable of scamming an asshole by serving the wrong flavor--on purpose--what the hell else are they capable of? <insert appropriate smiley here>
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September 13, 2013, 03:47:49 AM
 #406

The company BFL may be running subpar or not up to some standards we may envision a company should be run but, upon touring their facility, I'm here to state that I'm reversing my position on them after having drunk the proverbial Kool Aid.

I will be posting in the other negative BFL threads outlining my current position and views of which I was not paid for in advance, albeit I did receive a gift after the KC meetup and my travel/lounging expenses were more than compensated.

Josh was truthful when he stated that if you address to him questions and concerns in a civil manner, he will reply in kind. Likewise, demanding shit and speaking foully had, and will continue to be replied also in kind, of which is understandable, albeit I do feel that such a stance from a COO isn't warranted, but whom am I to say what's appropriate.

Josh and Sonny were gracious hosts at the plant and meetup, and would probably answered any question I tossed at them, though I had few, for it only took me a couple minutes of seeing the operation to prove to myself that they're not going anywhere, including Sonny after the 15th, of which was bullshit that I probably started or at least perpetuated.

More info forthcoming in the other threads as I read and catch up, addressing what needs to be addressed.

Bruno

PS: The fuckers served me cherry Kool Aid when I was on record that I desired raspberry. If they're capable of scamming an asshole by serving the wrong flavor--on purpose--what the hell else are they capable of? <insert appropriate smiley here>

WHAT?!?

Who are you and what have you done with our Bruno? Cheesy

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September 13, 2013, 03:55:47 AM
 #407

How many GH/s ?

How many GH/s did it cost them to shut you up?

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September 14, 2013, 02:48:12 AM
 #408

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.

Okay take a look at this link. Kansas City AG has contacted the Johnson County (KCMO) DA office wrt BFL. Wink

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1mbca7/the_kansas_ag_is_referring_bfl_complaints_to_the/
http://i.imgur.com/pw2YIGW.png[/img]]

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September 14, 2013, 08:40:16 PM
 #409

Why is the FTC or KS AG office not going after BFL? BFL and its key people either have great contacts or have been extremely lucky.

Okay take a look at this link. Kansas City AG has contacted the Johnson County (KCMO) DA office wrt BFL. Wink

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1mbca7/the_kansas_ag_is_referring_bfl_complaints_to_the/
http://i.imgur.com/pw2YIGW.png[/img]]

This doesn't appear to be good news for BFL.  I believe enough complaints were lodged with the state AG for them to open the file and do some preliminary "investigation".  I also believe they found enough validity in the complaints to warrant this going to the next level.  It appears that the state AG has determined that the appropriate course of action here is to suggested that the local DA "address" the issue.

I suspect if the state AG felt there were zero validity to the complaints they would have politely informed the complainants of their decision and closed the file.  I also speculate that when the state AG thinks that the local DA is better suited to address the issue that the local DA will probably take a pretty good look into things.

BFL appears to be in full on refund complaint limitation mode.   The new transfer program, the recent alleged direct BFL to customer refunds when escalated secretly through pay pal and the alleged shipping out of order to pay pal complainers if true could certainly be signs the heat is being turned up.

BFL started playing a very dangerous game the second they started refusing refunds on undelivered merchandise.  They are gambling against a nasty opponent as well, if the government decides to weigh in and BFL is wrong it will probably get ugly.
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September 14, 2013, 08:53:57 PM
 #410

...albeit I did receive a gift after the KC meetup and my travel/lounging expenses were more than compensated...

So you were bought off? Tongue

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September 15, 2013, 12:20:18 AM
 #411

This doesn't appear to be good news for BFL.  I believe enough complaints were lodged with the state AG for them to open the file and do some preliminary "investigation".  I also believe they found enough validity in the complaints to warrant this going to the next level.  It appears that the state AG has determined that the appropriate course of action here is to suggested that the local DA "address" the issue.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.  It has a form letter look like they're basically punting it.  "May be more appropriately addressed" is pretty weak language.

It could mean they view this as a criminal fraud rather than a simple consumer protection issue, but it reads more to me like simple bureaucratic buck-passing.

I wouldn't stop filing complaints with both agencies, though.  Anyone who has not already filed a complaint with the AG (and wants to) should go ahead and do it regardless, but should perhaps also contact the DA in this letter.  Anyone who already got an "official" brush-off from the AG should continue to follow up with the DA.
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September 15, 2013, 05:57:12 AM
 #412

This doesn't appear to be good news for BFL.  I believe enough complaints were lodged with the state AG for them to open the file and do some preliminary "investigation".  I also believe they found enough validity in the complaints to warrant this going to the next level.  It appears that the state AG has determined that the appropriate course of action here is to suggested that the local DA "address" the issue.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.  It has a form letter look like they're basically punting it.  "May be more appropriately addressed" is pretty weak language.

It could mean they view this as a criminal fraud rather than a simple consumer protection issue, but it reads more to me like simple bureaucratic buck-passing.

I wouldn't stop filing complaints with both agencies, though.  Anyone who has not already filed a complaint with the AG (and wants to) should go ahead and do it regardless, but should perhaps also contact the DA in this letter.  Anyone who already got an "official" brush-off from the AG should continue to follow up with the DA.

I cannot see an online complaint link for the JoCo DA -- it has to be done by paper and post.  So the AG sending my complaint to the DA for me is good enough, as I am outside the US.

I've already gotten my Paypal reversal yesterday (forced on BFL by Paypal), but if BFL didn't deny it in the first place, I probably wouldn't have filed any complaints anywhere (FTC, KS AG, BBB).  Denying refunds is just plain poor customer service, and outright illegal.  The official mouthpiece says their lawyer says it's within the law, but that's what lawyers are for.  If he were helping build units instead of cursing everyone here, the backlog might have been shorter.

Butterfly Labs has a different interpretation of the FTC Mail Order Rule.  You do not have a refund option with the BFL Monarch no matter how late they ship.
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September 15, 2013, 09:19:19 AM
 #413

There seems to be a very worrying development with BFL in that in order to stop forced refunds, they're shipping out of order to people who raise chargeback requests.

To date I've seen 3; a February 2013, a March 2013 & an April 2013 orders all 'shipped' then the person raised the complaint to Paypal.

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September 16, 2013, 07:38:06 AM
 #414

This doesn't appear to be good news for BFL.  I believe enough complaints were lodged with the state AG for them to open the file and do some preliminary "investigation".  I also believe they found enough validity in the complaints to warrant this going to the next level.  It appears that the state AG has determined that the appropriate course of action here is to suggested that the local DA "address" the issue.

I wouldn't get my hopes up.  It has a form letter look like they're basically punting it.  "May be more appropriately addressed" is pretty weak language.

It could mean they view this as a criminal fraud rather than a simple consumer protection issue, but it reads more to me like simple bureaucratic buck-passing.

I wouldn't stop filing complaints with both agencies, though.  Anyone who has not already filed a complaint with the AG (and wants to) should go ahead and do it regardless, but should perhaps also contact the DA in this letter.  Anyone who already got an "official" brush-off from the AG should continue to follow up with the DA.

I cannot see an online complaint link for the JoCo DA -- it has to be done by paper and post.  So the AG sending my complaint to the DA for me is good enough, as I am outside the US.

I've already gotten my Paypal reversal yesterday (forced on BFL by Paypal), but if BFL didn't deny it in the first place, I probably wouldn't have filed any complaints anywhere (FTC, KS AG, BBB).  Denying refunds is just plain poor customer service, and outright illegal.  The official mouthpiece says their lawyer says it's within the law, but that's what lawyers are for.  If he were helping build units instead of cursing everyone here, the backlog might have been shorter.


the guestion is if you did a cc via your paypal account it is fairly easy to get your $$$ back from bfl with paypal pressure..even after 45day window I've been told..the catch is if you have done it in BTC or wire xfer or bank xfer as far as I know your only option is the FTC or lawyers.....anyway just saying so don't be like me and NOT  pay with cc via paypal or direct if a company like www.kncminer.com can take direct credit card orders after only being in existence for 6 months can't see why bfl could not do so either..last point to not even mention that some some people we're saying in shoutbox the day before that chargebacks via cc or ftc are being paid out by equipment .ie jumpint the gue..I said so on bfl's shoutbox what the deal on this was a rumor or what with bfl staff in shoutbox they all left and I was promptly banned from the shoutbox ...I can see forums there and post but they go to moderator (ie black hole of death)and never are posted..so again I was simply "asking" about all the talk I heard on this........and bang banned....(admittedly I have been kinda pain to bfl but I mean really ...just reply there is not truth to it...is all I expected in the shoutbox reply)...so anyway ....thus they lost an upgrade of my current not shipping stuff to a monarch ...I will just use the stuff coming as doorstops I guess and treat this whole BFL mess as a life lesson....getting tough on the old bfl site if you even bring up possible rumors to their attention...or not I guess my 2c worth Searing and as always with the lack of info out of bfl I know squat....it is the lack of info imho that has gotten them in this mess in the first place...even if not fishy sure looks so..again imho ..like I know zip ..I bought from these guys...Searing

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September 16, 2013, 05:51:24 PM
 #415

full refund from paypal two days ago!  awesome!!!    Smiley
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September 16, 2013, 05:56:23 PM
 #416

A few things....


It seems they are delivering because the proof of delivery (tracking number or confirmation) is enough to show the order was fulfilled and will grant them a win if you place a chargeback on your credit card.

Does anyone have the address of BFL headquarters? I am involved in the media (business and financial reporting) and would love to pay them a visit and get them on the record.
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September 16, 2013, 06:34:01 PM
 #417

Seriously? Type "butterfly labs address" in a google window. The address will be all over the page...no need to even press enter.

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September 16, 2013, 06:39:29 PM
 #418

Well then.

Do you guys want a Nightline type of interview going in guns blazing, or is a hidden camera/undercover type of sting better?




cp1 I don't have time for such mundane things like clicking on websites. I think you understand that already.

I'm surprised more of you haven't gone to their offices in person if you are aware of their address....

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September 16, 2013, 06:50:26 PM
 #419

Ugh.

Two guys JUST reported back from a trip to bfl headquarters.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.0

Guns blazing is meaningless. Figure out how they're benefiting from this scam and expose that. I fail to see the huge benefit for bfl if they're not mining equipment that's already been sold.

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September 16, 2013, 08:27:28 PM
 #420

I read part of the thread, and the common consensus is that the people who went got bought off with a ASIC machine that was given to them.



Sad.  Cry
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