Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Distraction]

Anyway, track was wet at FP3 and most of the drivers just had under 10 laps in.  So no additional info to pick up on.  Quali in an hour or so. 

My source says it is full rainy today at the location. So we had better get ready for some interesting action.    It isn't expected to rain heavily though, only around 1 mm.



Source: YR served by the Norwegian Meteorological Institute and NRK

However even this amount of rain can make a big impact. If it rains, stops and starts again then having the right strategy can carry even an unexpected driver to pole position. 

Only half an hour to go and the odds are like 2.49 - Verstappen, 2.85 - Norris. But one should keep in mind that even if Verstappen finishes the session as the 1st he is starting the race 10 positions back because of a power unit change.

[swogerino]

Tomorrow at least there is no sight of rain and although cooler weather we are free from rain which will make a beautiful race.I was watching in F1 official Instagram page a scrolling post with many small ones reviving to us what happened in 2008 where Hamilton and Raikkonen fought it hard for the win and although Hamilton won back then he was penalized with 25 seconds for touching with Raikkonen,so Massa got the win,glorious times which I hope we can see a repeat tomorrow judging from the starting grid.It sure promises a lot of action and the track permits it.

[coinlocket$]

2024 F1 Belgian Grand Prix - Qualifying Results
Pos   Driver   Nat.   Team   Q1   Q2   Q3
1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m54.938s   1m53.837s   1m53.159s
2   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m55.349s   1m54.193s   1m53.754s
3   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m55.139s   1m54.470s   1m53.765s
4   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m55.692s   1m54.037s   1m53.835s
5   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m55.582s   1m54.358s   1m53.981s
6   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m54.835s   1m54.136s   1m54.027s
7   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m55.353s   1m54.095s   1m54.184s
8   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m55.169s   1m54.112s   1m54.477s
9   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team   1m55.489s   1m54.258s   1m54.765s
10   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m55.417s   1m54.460s   1m54.810s

Pole position for Leclerc cause Max got 10 positions penalty.

It will be a fun race to see, if we have raid I guess Max will win.

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1052777/1/2024-f1-belgian-grand-prix-qualifying-results

[Distraction]

There are only 10 minutes to go for the race to start. It is going to be interesting to watch Verstappen climb the positions today.    He looks really fast this time if you watched the qualifying session. A time gap like 0.6 seconds is really big but he is unlucky to have that grid penalty. I'm still expecting him to finish on podium of course.

But can he win the race? I don't think so. Perez needs to keep McLarens behind to give Verstappen a more realistic chance to win here. But I wouldn't trust Perez even a bit. 

I mean Perez was great yesterday. He was so close to taking pole also but I think he used the track conditions to his advantage. No rain is expected today so I feel like he will drop down by many places.

[swogerino]

There are only 10 minutes to go for the race to start. It is going to be interesting to watch Verstappen climb the positions today.    He looks really fast this time if you watched the qualifying session. A time gap like 0.6 seconds is really big but he is unlucky to have that grid penalty. I'm still expecting him to finish on podium of course.

But can he win the race? I don't think so. Perez needs to keep McLarens behind to give Verstappen a more realistic chance to win here. But I wouldn't trust Perez even a bit. 

I mean Perez was great yesterday. He was so close to taking pole also but I think he used the track conditions to his advantage. No rain is expected today so I feel like he will drop down by many places.

Both Redbulls were not capable of passing on track of any car including Ferrari,Mercedes and McLaren,if this is their true power after claiming a huge massive upgrade for this race in Verstappen car it means that most likely they are not going to be winning this Championship at least the constructor title is not at all guaranteed for them.I wonder what decision they will take about Perez tomorrow,most likely he is going to be sacked as he did not show anything,starting 2nd and finishing 8th does not mean anything good for him and not good for the team also.To bad we are having a long break right now in the middle of where things are becoming beautiful.

[coinlocket$]

Incredible race for Mercedes.
Russell went in god mode with his idea of making only 1 pit box.

Again a missed opportunity from Norris.

Due things are now sure, Mercedes is back and Redbull is not the best car anymore.

[LGD2Business]

Mercedes has had a major scandal. Race winner Russell disqualified from Belgian Grand Prix for underweight car and Hamilton became the new winner. The car weighed 1.5 kilograms less than the minimum weight of 798 kilograms. Russell was therefore disqualified. Mercedes retained first place, but they lost important points in a race in which they scored a double podium.
It's unfair to Russell, his hard work has been wasted, but the Mercedes team seems to be to blame here. Losing points because of such a mistake is one of the unforgettable moments of this year.

[Velvet78]

Mercedes has had a major scandal. Race winner Russell disqualified from Belgian Grand Prix for underweight car and Hamilton became the new winner. The car weighed 1.5 kilograms less than the minimum weight of 798 kilograms. Russell was therefore disqualified. Mercedes retained first place, but they lost important points in a race in which they scored a double podium.
It's unfair to Russell, his hard work has been wasted, but the Mercedes team seems to be to blame here. Losing points because of such a mistake is one of the unforgettable moments of this year.

Toto Wolff apologised to George Russell for this huge mistake they made. It is really unbelievable, just think about all your effort goes for nothing because of a stupid mistake your team makes... 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/wolff-apologises-to-russell-after-mercedes-mistake-leads-to-belgian-gp.3iQ5OuQj81l7DQbCaYKKt9

Russell is a really talented driver no matter what people say. He acted so smart by going for one-stop strategy as well. He was wonderful with saving his hard tyres for like 34 laps. I thought Hamilton would absolutely overtake him but he couldn't. Russell defended his position strongly. Even Piastri caught up with them thanks to that but didn't have enough time to get past any of them.

After Russell is out, Hamilton is winning his second GP in a row while Leclerc is also finding a chance to finish on podium. 

[coinlocket$]

Tragedy for Russell but the disqualification is fair.
Even if the weigh was only 1.5kilo shorter the advantage was huge.

even if we assume only 1/10 of a second per lap, over the duration of the race he was "cheating" for 5second total of advantage.

[retreat]

Tragedy for Russell but the disqualification is fair.
Even if the weigh was only 1.5kilo shorter the advantage was huge.

even if we assume only 1/10 of a second per lap, over the duration of the race he was "cheating" for 5second total of advantage.

Mercedes owes Russel an apology, he has worked hard to get P1, but because of a mistake his team made he had to be disqualified and Lewis emerged as the winner of the race. It's just unfair to him. But apart from that, I can say that this race was quite exciting because there were lots of overtakes, and especially Max who wasn't as monster as before. This makes the race even more exciting to watch.

[FanEagle]

While I do agree that this mistake feels like something terrible and Russell will feel terrible about it, I think it is something he can overcome not that hard. First of all, there are many situations when drivers could even lead a race and then crash, sad situation when it happens but it is in the game, your car could break down, your engine could fail, many things could happen, or you could just have a pit stop issue and not even continue the race.

These drivers are aware of it and live all their life facing these tough situations, either themselves or at least they see others have it. So when something like this happens, while it is definitely not a great feeling, I am sure that he can overcome it easily.

Plus if he won, then he won and he did all he could, with a one stop strategy as well, keeping Hamilton, a seven time world champion, away from him even with DRS, which shows you how great Russell drove. This could be something to feel happy about, if Mercedes ends up getting their car getting better like this, then their future with Russell seems bright, so it is a good sign for their future and he must feel good about it. It is a bad situation, but nothing too bad to stay hung up on at all.

[coinlocket$]

Plus if he won, then he won and he did all he could, with a one stop strategy as well, keeping Hamilton, a seven time world champion, away from him even with DRS, which shows you how great Russell drove. This could be something to feel happy about, if Mercedes ends up getting their car getting better like this, then their future with Russell seems bright, so it is a good sign for their future and he must feel good about it. It is a bad situation, but nothing too bad to stay hung up on at all.

But with more weight he probably was not able to win the race.
Even if it was only 1.5 Kg underweight in a long run of 44 laps we are talking about of seconds of advantage and not less important a smaller degradation of the tires.
Even if we not considered the smaller degradation we must need to consider at-least 2-3 seconds for the lower weight.

[tokeweed]

Tragedy for Russell but the disqualification is fair.
Even if the weigh was only 1.5kilo shorter the advantage was huge.

even if we assume only 1/10 of a second per lap, over the duration of the race he was "cheating" for 5second total of advantage.

Mercedes owes Russel an apology, he has worked hard to get P1, but because of a mistake his team made he had to be disqualified and Lewis emerged as the winner of the race. It's just unfair to him. But apart from that, I can say that this race was quite exciting because there were lots of overtakes, and especially Max who wasn't as monster as before. This makes the race even more exciting to watch.

I'm pretty sure Toto Wolff personally did.  But nothing to worry about if you're a Mercedes driver as they might have finally found their stride.  But I still wanna see a couple of races to confirm if so.  But if it's true, oh man...  With all the rumors about Toto Wolff courting Max Verstappen, 2025 will be sizzling hot as 2026 he'll be free to go.

It'll be a lot clearer towards the end of the season.

[Distraction]

Both Redbulls were not capable of passing on track of any car including Ferrari,Mercedes and McLaren,if this is their true power after claiming a huge massive upgrade for this race in Verstappen car it means that most likely they are not going to be winning this Championship at least the constructor title is not at all guaranteed for them.I wonder what decision they will take about Perez tomorrow,most likely he is going to be sacked as he did not show anything,starting 2nd and finishing 8th does not mean anything good for him and not good for the team also.To bad we are having a long break right now in the middle of where things are becoming beautiful.

I agree. Neither Verstappen nor Perez were good enough. But Perez was the worst between them surely. Just how can you be this bad?    At least he should have been able to compete for podium. I can't say the strategies applied for Perez were good at all also. He could have also had a decent race just like Russell had - despite the disqualification which was the team's fault.

I thought Norris - Verstappen both would finish on podium but they were not fast enough. I was thinking like the reason why Norris was slow during the qualifying session was track condition. But we saw clearly that it was related to the track itself.

Verstappen can't win for 4 races but still he is very comfortable at top of the standings. 

[retreat]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/carlos-sainz-to-race-for-williams-f1-team-in-2025/10640291/

Finally, Sainz said that he would move to Williams and this has been officially confirmed by Williams by saying that the Spanish racer will join them not only in the 2025 season, but also in 2026 and beyond. This is not a surprising choice, because many people have been saying for a long time that Sainz will choose Williams as his team after leaving Ferrari and it seems that these rumors are true. However, this is an interesting thing, because Sainz is not just driving for Williams, but he is partnering with the team to build the team and make it at the top again. This deal makes 2025 another exciting season and I'm really looking forward to seeing Williams repeat their history again.

[Velvet78]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/carlos-sainz-to-race-for-williams-f1-team-in-2025/10640291/

Finally, Sainz said that he would move to Williams and this has been officially confirmed by Williams by saying that the Spanish racer will join them not only in the 2025 season, but also in 2026 and beyond. This is not a surprising choice, because many people have been saying for a long time that Sainz will choose Williams as his team after leaving Ferrari and it seems that these rumors are true. However, this is an interesting thing, because Sainz is not just driving for Williams, but he is partnering with the team to build the team and make it at the top again. This deal makes 2025 another exciting season and I'm really looking forward to seeing Williams repeat their history again.

When I saw this on the social media first I thought it might be another rumour. You know how often Sainz has been linked with different teams recently.    But it seems like this one is true.

Interesting honestly. This is like going backwards in his career in my opinion. Because Williams is just in pain. Only 4 points collected which is thanks to Albon. The car is so slow. Will Sainz really feel himself comfortable there? I don't think so.    It is even a two-year deal... But as far as I have heard there will be a condition on his contract. Like, if he gets an offer from Mercedes or Red Bull he will be able to terminate his contract. If it's true then it's a little better.

[coinlocket$]

I'm surprised for Sainz.
Honestly he deserved a better car but I guess not a single seat was opened for him.
The good thing for him is that he will can end in Audi in 2 year.

Driver   Team   Contract End
Max Verstappen   Red Bull   2028
Sergio Perez   Red Bull   2026
Lewis Hamilton   Ferrari   multi-year
Charles Leclerc   Ferrari   multi-year
George Russell   Mercedes   2025
Lando Norris   McLaren   "Long-term"
Oscar Piastri   McLaren   2026
Lance Stroll   Aston Martin   "2025 and beyond"
Fernando Alonso   Aston Martin   multi-year
Alex Albon   Williams   2025
Carlos Sainz   Williams   "Beyond 2026"
Nico Hulkenberg   Sauber   multi-year
Pierre Gasly   Alpine   "Long-term"
Oliver Bearman   Haas   multi-year
Yuki Tsunoda   Visa Cash App RB   2025

This is the current situation, source: https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1046665/1/2025-f1-driver-line-who-confirmed-and-rumoured-2025-grid

[LTU_btc]

When I saw this on the social media first I thought it might be another rumour. You know how often Sainz has been linked with different teams recently.    But it seems like this one is true.

Interesting honestly. This is like going backwards in his career in my opinion. Because Williams is just in pain. Only 4 points collected which is thanks to Albon. The car is so slow. Will Sainz really feel himself comfortable there? I don't think so.    It is even a two-year deal... But as far as I have heard there will be a condition on his contract. Like, if he gets an offer from Mercedes or Red Bull he will be able to terminate his contract. If it's true then it's a little better.

It looks like big step backwards, kinda reminds when Ricciardo left Red Bull and went to Renault. After that he didn't returned to top level. I'm afraid that something similar can happen with Sainz, but maybe Carlos knows something more than we do about Williams plans for the future

[FanEagle]

Plus if he won, then he won and he did all he could, with a one stop strategy as well, keeping Hamilton, a seven time world champion, away from him even with DRS, which shows you how great Russell drove. This could be something to feel happy about, if Mercedes ends up getting their car getting better like this, then their future with Russell seems bright, so it is a good sign for their future and he must feel good about it. It is a bad situation, but nothing too bad to stay hung up on at all.

But with more weight he probably was not able to win the race.
Even if it was only 1.5 Kg underweight in a long run of 44 laps we are talking about of seconds of advantage and not less important a smaller degradation of the tires.
Even if we not considered the smaller degradation we must need to consider at-least 2-3 seconds for the lower weight.

I am sure that it would have been harder, but we can't be certain if he would be able to or not, we still don't know what Hamiltons car weighted, maybe Hamiltons car weighted a lot more and that could be the issue, in that case yes the difference and the gap would be too big. But with 1.5 kgs, you are gaining maybe 0.1 per lap, and with any sudden tiny move you lose that anyway, like having the exit harder is causing you much more than that.

Anyone who watched the race would see that Russell was taking the turns a lot better, and he was having much better exit, and because he was having a lot better exit, that resulted with him staying ahead, the best Hamilton could hope for in this case is 0.2 or so faster car, and that would have helped a lot, but if Russell defended hard, he could have kept him for just 1.5 laps or so, not really that tough, could have been done.

What I am trying to say is that, while it would have been possible for Hamilton to have a better chance, it would not be guaranteed. What I read most commonly is that tires lose a lot of debris, which means that because GR had one stint, he had 4 tires that lost a lot of rubber, hence why he was underweight, so while the strategy gave him the lead, it also caused him to get DQ, if he had 4 brand new tires, he would have been heavy enough.

[retreat]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/carlos-sainz-to-race-for-williams-f1-team-in-2025/10640291/

Finally, Sainz said that he would move to Williams and this has been officially confirmed by Williams by saying that the Spanish racer will join them not only in the 2025 season, but also in 2026 and beyond. This is not a surprising choice, because many people have been saying for a long time that Sainz will choose Williams as his team after leaving Ferrari and it seems that these rumors are true. However, this is an interesting thing, because Sainz is not just driving for Williams, but he is partnering with the team to build the team and make it at the top again. This deal makes 2025 another exciting season and I'm really looking forward to seeing Williams repeat their history again.

When I saw this on the social media first I thought it might be another rumour. You know how often Sainz has been linked with different teams recently.    But it seems like this one is true.

Interesting honestly. This is like going backwards in his career in my opinion. Because Williams is just in pain. Only 4 points collected which is thanks to Albon. The car is so slow. Will Sainz really feel himself comfortable there? I don't think so.    It is even a two-year deal... But as far as I have heard there will be a condition on his contract. Like, if he gets an offer from Mercedes or Red Bull he will be able to terminate his contract. If it's true then it's a little better.

Yeah I also see that it's like a step back in his career, because we know how Williams' performance was quite bad, but maybe there was consideration from Sainz's team and the opportunities that Williams could be given if he entered their team, and maybe that offer was the reason why Sainz seems to prefer to join the team, even though he might be at risk of competing at the bottom. And hopefully he won't ruin his career by joining that team because there have been many examples of great drivers moving to bad teams, and ending up with bad results.