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Author Topic: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.)  (Read 34689 times)
Chris Acheson
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June 12, 2011, 01:22:18 PM
 #561

If the owners of the BitCoin.org website are committed to protecting prices at the expense of open dialog, and those same people have a large vested financial interest in concealing any flaws that may come to light, and stifling dialog- then that is a business not an Open Source Project.

I guess I disagree with you a bit more than I thought at first.  This is just a case of the forum admins applying a quick and dirty fix in response to user demand.  I agree with you that the solution chosen is unacceptable.  However, the trolling had extremely little to do with the price drop.  The forum already had plenty of loud detractors, and the price has been steadily climbing.  The project leads are part of the core ideologically-motivated group that is in this for the long haul; they don't need to worry about short-term price fluctuations anyway.  I just don't buy this "profit protection" theory of yours.

The price drop was the result of a "perfect storm" situation for bitcoin.  After having the largest price gains we've ever seen (as far as I know), MtGox started having trouble with accepting Dwolla deposits (currently the primary means of turning USD into BTC) due to an API change on Dwolla's end, restricting the flow of new money.  S3052, our resident technical analyst, was predicting a short-term downward trend.  It's fairly well-known that the price already tends to slump on the weekends, due to banks being closed.  On top of all that, SilkRoad (the infamous bitcoin drug bazaar) shut down for a day or two.  Like them or not, they're a fairly unique feature of the bitcoin economy, and without them, there's a reduced demand for BTC.  Put all that together, and the situation is ripe for profit-taking by bitcoin speculators.
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jamoes
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June 12, 2011, 01:23:23 PM
 #562

I'd just like to chime in and say that I agree this is a bad policy. I believe that there are many users like myself that mostly lurk, but do enjoy posting occasionally. This new policy effectively means I'll never be allowed to post unless I waste time making a lot of useless posts in this newbie section.

Most other forums don't have this type of policy, and are still able to deal with spam and trolls. I propose either that verifying your email address be used as an alternate method to unlock yourself from the newbie section.

Alternatively, maybe we could come up with some sort of micro-payment solution to prove you're serious. I'd be happy to pay something like 0.01 BTC to break out of this jail.
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June 12, 2011, 01:28:12 PM
 #563

A dedicated newbie section, will have less of those posts, because there is no-one to scare or troll.

I'm sorry, i can't tell if this is a joke but i will bit anyway.. um.. so you are honestly under the opinion that the people the trolls are scaring are the experienced veteran bitcoin users and project developers? and NOT the new users who are trying to figure all this out for the first time? do you have a train of thought to back this insight up with?

I see where you could the misconception. My apologies for poor phrasing. What I meant is,is that newbies headed into the main forum sections to troll new and old. Of course the veteran users could see it, but it was an annoyance. Trolls of course thrive on attention, thus a bigger audience in the main sections, meant more bait. Not necessarily the veteran users, but the potential was there to hook more people. Here in the newbie section, there's less people, although maybe a bit more prone to deception, but the trolling is less satisfying. You get?

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mrNightowl
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June 12, 2011, 01:30:24 PM
 #564

Just a quick glance over this thread and I can see the problem here, people are lazy and want others to solve their issues for them.  I can clearly see a lot of those using bitcoin for their online ventures, know nothing about internet business and how to secure it for themselves.   

MindFunk
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June 12, 2011, 01:32:36 PM
 #565

Sure, let's start with the basics :

Basic 1: an open society does not promote censorship
Basic 2: don't quick the hive if you don't want to get stinged
Basic 3: you can't repair trust once it is broken
Basic 4: don't give to your detractors additional reasons to bash you

Jessy Kang
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June 12, 2011, 01:33:19 PM
 #566

However, the trolling had extremely little to do with the price drop.  The forum already had plenty of loud detractors, and the price has been steadily climbing.  The project leads are part of the core ideologically-motivated group that is in this for the long haul; they don't need to worry about short-term price fluctuations anyway.  I just don't buy this "profit protection" theory of yours.

"I for one welcome our new Bitcoin Masters." Sorry it was meant a bit tongue in cheek Wink

Therein lies the rub- you have more experience with the project leads than I do, so probably are correct about their motivations. The problem is the people we need to have confidence in their motivations- do not know them well, and have every reason to be skeptical.

In reality I think a few mods with significant holdings are getting a little trigger happy, and as you said most likely the project heads are still true believers- but we both agree the chosen course was poorly conceived, hinders the adoption of Bitcoin and opens them up to substantial criticism from a sector from which they can ill afford to receive it.
smackdaddy
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June 12, 2011, 01:35:40 PM
 #567

Ugh. I guess I get it, they're tryng to improve the signal to noise ratio, but I just wanted to post a suggestion on the thread about my miner app of choice and now I have to psuedo-spam posts on this forum until I'm no longer a newbie?

I understand the motivation, but I'm not sure the solution is the best.

vigilyn
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June 12, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
 #568

thanks
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June 12, 2011, 01:37:39 PM
 #569

Unfortunately, bitcoinewbie was murdered a few hours ago by the admin (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15735.0a), however I am his spokes person from the great beyond and he says he understands now what you meant and it makes sense to him.
freequant
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June 12, 2011, 01:38:37 PM
 #570

Same thing here, I would happily pay a permium provided that this premium is reinvested in the growth of the community.
Forcing people to write 50 useless messages before they are allowed to post for real is just making everyone loose their time.

I understand their must be some entities who have a personal agenda to destroy Bitcoin, and would not hesitate to use fake personae to manipulate the community. But they are the ones who won't be stopped by this kind of policy.
smackdaddy
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June 12, 2011, 01:38:41 PM
 #571

So, how many posts until I'm no longer a newbie?

I mean, I've probably made over 50k posts on forums, going back to the days of usenet in the early 90s.

You know what would be cool? An abstracted "forum account authentication service" that allows you to have one forum login that then would be accepted and supported by the popular forum packages. That way, people would be able to lean on their reputation across multiple forums to build a strong reputation.

That's actually a really good idea....

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June 12, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
 #572

I'd much rather you charge me a bit nickle so I don't have to invest the time to make 50 posts that aren't complete gibberish so that I can post a suggestion on the pheonix rising thread.

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June 12, 2011, 01:41:39 PM
 #573

Ugh. I guess I get it, they're tryng to improve the signal to noise ratio, but I just wanted to post a suggestion on the thread about my miner app of choice and now I have to psuedo-spam posts on this forum until I'm no longer a newbie?

I understand the motivation, but I'm not sure the solution is the best.

It was comments like that which caused bitcoinewbie to carried off on a stretcher, apparently you are not supposed to talk negatively of the forum in the forum.
MindFunk
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June 12, 2011, 01:46:10 PM
 #574

So, how many posts until I'm no longer a newbie?

I mean, I've probably made over 50k posts on forums, going back to the days of usenet in the early 90s.

You know what would be cool? An abstracted "forum account authentication service" that allows you to have one forum login that then would be accepted and supported by the popular forum packages. That way, people would be able to lean on their reputation across multiple forums to build a strong reputation.

That's actually a really good idea....

Wordpress already does that for blogs.
Nice idea.
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June 12, 2011, 01:48:11 PM
 #575

You could think of it as a bond. The forum holds it till you pass the 50 post minimum and if you act in good faith it gets returned to you.

Great idea.
freequant
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June 12, 2011, 01:48:29 PM
 #576

This is hazing.

But is has an advantage: being stuck here together for 50 messages is the best opportunity to create a stronger group.
This will be needed to kick the old farts in the butt when we are finally released in the wild Wink
mrx
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June 12, 2011, 01:48:32 PM
 #577

I successfully started a thread about my problem of multiple use of one wallet, and now I can only post on that thread outside this section.

Now BTCGuild has some problems(working miners but incorrect block stats such as a very long round, slow account management but other parts are okay, ...) and I even can't post there to describe what I see.

I know trolling is heavier during this value correction but it's not a good way to do with this problem.

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Edward50
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June 12, 2011, 01:49:10 PM
 #578

It must be obvious that the reason they did this is because someone has an investment in bitcoin and is trying to protect it.

Personally I am losing more faith in this currency as I have noticed many people trying to protect the value of it. There was even a post about closing the exchanges on the weekend.

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
tysat
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June 12, 2011, 01:50:35 PM
 #579

This is hazing.

But is has an advantage: being stuck here together for 50 messages is the best opportunity to create a stronger group.
This will be needed to kick the old farts in the butt when we are finally released in the wild Wink

I really doubt this "hazing" will promote any group unity.  This is the internet after all, everyone is looking out for themselves.
MindFunk
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June 12, 2011, 01:52:24 PM
 #580

You now need only 4 hours of online time plus 5 posts to become established. 8 hours seemed a little hard to get -- it might take some people several days.

Can I be Whitelisted now?
Pretty Pleeeeeeeeeeeeese.............
I have 5 posts (this is 6) and over 5 hours.
I am not sure if the rules have changed AGAIN.
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