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Author Topic: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.)  (Read 38110 times)
lemonginger
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June 12, 2011, 05:37:29 PM
 #641

If the owners of the BitCoin.org website are committed to protecting prices at the expense of open dialog, and those same people have a large vested financial interest in concealing any flaws that may come to light, and stifling dialog- then that is a business not an Open Source Project.

I guess I disagree with you a bit more than I thought at first.  This is just a case of the forum admins applying a quick and dirty fix in response to user demand.  I agree with you that the solution chosen is unacceptable.  However, the trolling had extremely little to do with the price drop.  The forum already had plenty of loud detractors, and the price has been steadily climbing.  The project leads are part of the core ideologically-motivated group that is in this for the long haul; they don't need to worry about short-term price fluctuations anyway.  I just don't buy this "profit protection" theory of yours.

I agree with you here Chris. I don't think relegating noobs to a different area of the forums (which is still public and can still be read afterall) had anything to do with bitcoin price fluctuations -- which while extreme for any investment, have been pretty much the norm for bitcoins at this stage. I don't know a single person that has been involved in the project for over, i dunno, a week, who even blinked when prices dropped following the rise to $30+. I also don't think discussion on these forums has near as much bearing over prices as people might like or think.

I am a part of a lot of online communities, and am the primary admin of a few with over 1k active members, and these issues of signal vs noise always come up and get resolved in a variety of ways. Personally I think community moderation tends to work the best overall, rather than having overworked moderators have to wade into flame wars, but that's just me.

Personally, while I agree 100% with Jessy that the "noob forum" solution is not the answer - I think the larger concerns are actually about barriers to entry for use of the currency that can't be forum specific. (No one wants to have to ask questions on an internet forum to use money). These means more documentation, more user friendly clients with more features, more online wallet services, more videos, etc etc etc. Let's not kind ourselves, most people aren't going to want to register online to figure out this bitcoin stuff.
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June 12, 2011, 05:41:57 PM
 #642

So if I want to post a problem I have been having to the deepbit thread I should post it here first and hope tycho sees it?
To be fair, since you are new, any problem you think you have with a service can most likely be resolved without contacting the person directly and wasting their valuable time. Any legitimate issue would most likely be brought to the person's attention without you.

btc_man
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June 12, 2011, 05:46:36 PM
 #643

I don't mind, it is a good idea, it makes sure everyone is serious. Right away i had to ask a newb question anyway.



How do i attach an image to a post?
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June 12, 2011, 05:51:16 PM
 #644

I'm just gonna add my .02btc in here and say, I've been a lurker and had an account here for a while.

I don' t post often, I don't have questions (I know how to read). I am not a troll.

Now I want to interject into the conversation and am being treated like a toddler.


I understand the policy, I think it makes sense. But here I am posting a filler post just so I can hit my 50...
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June 12, 2011, 05:56:18 PM
 #645

How do i attach an image to a post?
Upload it to an image hosting site and use the [img] tags here to link it.

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June 12, 2011, 05:57:20 PM
 #646

I'm just gonna add my .02btc in here and say, I've been a lurker and had an account here for a while.

I don' t post often, I don't have questions (I know how to read). I am not a troll.

Now I want to interject into the conversation and am being treated like a toddler.


I understand the policy, I think it makes sense. But here I am posting a filler post just so I can hit my 50...
It's now just 5 posts and 4 hours logged in time.

4thekoz
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June 12, 2011, 06:00:10 PM
 #647

to quote Jessy Kane

By insisting on a 50 post minimum, you create an incentive for members to write posts with no substantive content- and so increase the signal to noise ratio in the forum to the point where it is near useless to newbies, and extremely unattractive to experienced posters. Threads scroll off the page as soon as they are made- because there is no incentive to search for answers already given- and every incentive to post the question again, even if it won't be answered.



If I cant ask questions and according to the mods I have nothing good to contribute to these forums... how else will I ever be able to post?
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June 12, 2011, 06:00:11 PM
 #648

I think the larger concerns are actually about barriers to entry for use of the currency that can't be forum specific. (No one wants to have to ask questions on an internet forum to use money). These means more documentation, more user friendly clients with more features, more online wallet services, more videos, etc etc etc. Let's not kind ourselves, most people aren't going to want to register online to figure out this bitcoin stuff.

I think forum accessibility is essential, but as you said not the end game. To be honest, it looks from a lay persons POV that the development issues need some money thrown at them. As a merchant I don't have a problem with that- there's just nothing for me to buy at the moment. A lot of the posters on BitCoin.org, are end users and startups, if their pockets are deep they are usually not in a position get a decent ROI on a few hundred dollars spent on a script, or 37 Signals level functionality at a similar monthly rate.

Existing merchants already have the numbers, and have the margins that we can afford to take a bit of a risk given that the script will just sit there and get in the black sooner or later. I've gotten interest from some friends in the local Asian business community. The issue is they're a skeptical and sometimes not very tech savvy bunch, and as soon as they hit the Newbie wall they'll lose interest. A forum specifically for merchants would be helpful and beneficial to the Bitcoin community as a whole. I don't think Bitcoin has much of a future unless it's accepted, and the kind of people with the decision making power to accept it just are not going to jump through the hoops that have been put in place.
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June 12, 2011, 06:05:49 PM
 #649

Before this limit, I posted a thread discussing my build, and got a few responses from others. I contributed my experiences to a few posts with similar hardware.

Is it unreasonable to assume that there might be reason for discussion related to my specific hardware? in my specific configuration?

Where else can users go to learn more and involve themselves more in the community if open discussion is not encouraged?

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June 12, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
 #650

If I cant ask questions and according to the mods I have nothing good to contribute to these forums... how else will I ever be able to post?
There's nothing stopping you from asking questions. If several hours go by without a response, feel free to report your post or PM a mod that's online and we'll move it to a different forum for you.

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June 12, 2011, 06:13:28 PM
 #651

i just want to write a pm to mr and mrs silkroad because of lulz and security fail.
if u want, u can send me a few coins. 1JFopPeX5RnnfxxgzNiXKe11kegrDcGN35

ps: blackmarket admin has been doxed. lololol
swusc2
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June 12, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
 #652

I think the larger concerns are actually about barriers to entry for use of the currency that can't be forum specific. (No one wants to have to ask questions on an internet forum to use money). These means more documentation, more user friendly clients with more features, more online wallet services, more videos, etc etc etc. Let's not kind ourselves, most people aren't going to want to register online to figure out this bitcoin stuff.

I think forum accessibility is essential, but as you said not the end game. To be honest, it looks from a lay persons POV that the development issues need some money thrown at them. As a merchant I don't have a problem with that- there's just nothing for me to buy at the moment. A lot of the posters on BitCoin.org, are end users and startups, if their pockets are deep they are usually not in a position get a decent ROI on a few hundred dollars spent on a script, or 37 Signals level functionality at a similar monthly rate.

Existing merchants already have the numbers, and have the margins that we can afford to take a bit of a risk given that the script will just sit there and get in the black sooner or later. I've gotten interest from some friends in the local Asian business community. The issue is they're a skeptical and sometimes not very tech savvy bunch, and as soon as they hit the Newbie wall they'll lose interest. A forum specifically for merchants would be helpful and beneficial to the Bitcoin community as a whole. I don't think Bitcoin has much of a future unless it's accepted, and the kind of people with the decision making power to accept it just are not going to jump through the hoops that have been put in place.

Now that is a good idea.

I had no qualms over your general argument that categorization i.e., putting new people in the newbie forum creates social hierarchy. The issue was people were getting so out of hand some trolls were creating a community that business types and start up wouldn't touch with a 10 foot stick.

Now it is regrettable that people new here have that actually want to do something useful get the same treatment as trolls. It was a necessary evil. If they don't care to come here in the first place, because average people who have to make a living, don't want to wade through what was an growing cesspool of troll posts, quadruple posts on the same idea on the front page, calling people names, it ultimately wouldn't even matter because they won't want to be here in the first place.

It is hard to implement a proposal where you rely on each individual themselves to be "respectful", there are people that come here just to incite hate. People should know it in themselves to be respectful but trolls still troll. It's hard to stop a flame war once its begun since people stroke their egos online. Someone literally made a one line post the other day talking about how the Western world was full of dirty Jews, and the thread stayed on the front page for a good while and the only conversation was "you are an asshat." If a third of the topics devolved down to "you are an asshat" its very hard for few moderators to deal with it and people who actually have something important to say don't care to say it.

There was something one of the developers said told me: the forum is overrun with trolls, and flame wars. It's driving reasonable people and business types away. We [the developers] trade emails now.

Impress your friends! Buy a bitcoin keychain!
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=30799.0
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June 12, 2011, 06:26:01 PM
 #653

Request for whitelist. Post history will show while adding little of value, no active trolling either.

BTCitcointalk
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Maged
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June 12, 2011, 06:27:11 PM
 #654

Maged, just lock threads like these from now on.

If you wish to discuss policy, the stickied thread is for you.
I don't see a problem with giving them a day to rant outside of the stickies, but whatever. We should really split the sticky between discussion and whitelist requests, then...

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June 12, 2011, 06:28:58 PM
Last edit: June 12, 2011, 06:57:35 PM by elfreak
 #655

I want to buy Mt Gox USD through PayPal in this thread: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1561.0
I have a verified business PayPal account belonging to my company, Epsiro ( http://epsiro.com || .no || .org || .net ).
I have an eBay account with 100% positive feedback and 74 in feedback score ( http://myworld.ebay.com/epsiro ).

I have been mining for MtRed for about a month now, but want to speculate with some more money.

Could I get whitelisted so I can post my offer in that thread?

EDIT: I just saw that there was a dedicated thread for these requests ( http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15911.0 )
Could a moderator move my post? Or should I delete this one, and post there instead?
Jessy Kang
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June 12, 2011, 06:39:54 PM
 #656

Maged, just lock threads like these from now on.

Care to define what "threads like this" are? You already tried to lock my thread and then had to back pedal over PM when you realized the other mods were going to leave you flapping in the wind.

If you wish to discuss policy, the stickied thread is for you.

Yes, I notice how you buried my three page, topical thread with multiple articulate posters from multiple points of view- in this 20 page "whitelist me" nightmare. Subtle. Real contribution you are making there Atlas.
ethwit
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June 12, 2011, 06:44:26 PM
 #657

It is discouraging that the administrator's of this forum favour quantity over quality.  I joined the forum i February, and took time to read what others were posting.  It now comes the time that I have questions and comments that i would like to discuss within the relevant pages and threads.  Instead, I am encouraged to provide 50 irrelevant posts avery 5 minutes before i can be considered worthy of conversing with the "adults" of this forum. 

Lolercaust
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June 12, 2011, 06:48:53 PM
 #658

Well, being a newbie, might as well start here!

Such restrictions are not unreasonable.  I imagine this has been brought up before, given this topic has accrued 20 pages, but new members should be expected to demonstrate some sort of commitment to the forum before being allowed to have an impact on discussion, bitcoin trades/games, etc.  This is a forum, after-all, not simply a stepping stone to bitcoins.
4thekoz
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June 12, 2011, 06:50:08 PM
 #659

To test this newbie section I posted a question about connection issues to deepbit. I could connect just fine with 1 card, but with 3 i disconnect constantly.

I posted this question in the noob section. It was quickly pushed off the front page and the only replies I received were from users that also had under 10 posts. They were just posting to post. All of the replies told me to switch pools. not the solution to my problem....
swusc2
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June 12, 2011, 06:51:55 PM
 #660

To test this newbie section I posted a question about connection issues to deepbit. I could connect just fine with 1 card, but with 3 i disconnect constantly.

I posted this question in the noob section. It was quickly pushed off the front page and the only replies I received were from users that also had under 10 posts. They were just posting to post. All of the replies told me to switch pools. not the solution to my problem....

It actually was. Deepbit got DDoS nothing you could have done would have connected you to them.

Impress your friends! Buy a bitcoin keychain!
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=30799.0
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