[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[Daparski]

...Let's assume in the first year iconomi.performance invests 7000 BTC into icos, with an average <annual> return of 4x.  That's 21000 BTC profit.  ~20% of this profit will be sent to ICN token holders as dividends.  21000 BTC × 0.20 = 4200 BTC dividends...

<other analysis>

.... I have to say that I like the methodology. Ur pushing good content here MoveCrypto. Thx!

Let's examine this good example a little more to help me (and everybody else) understand just how this is gonna work.

Assume next week at launch that ICONOMI puts 7K BTC into ICNP and then gets 4X on the investment during Year One for a total of 28,000BTC as described above.  Subtract out the original 7K investment and you get the 21K profit mentioned above.  So far so good.

Say ICNP makes equal profit every week in Year One.  Then the weekly ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, right?

20% of the weekly profit is distributed as dividends to all ICN token holders.  So 403.85 BTC * 0.2 = 80.77 BTC would be distributed per week as dividends, right?  

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors so the average stake is 85,000,000/3500 = 24.3K ICN (round number).   Investors paid the ICO price of 0.13 USD per ICN or 0.00021228 BTC per ICN for each of their tokens.  Total ICO costs for an average 24.3K ICN stake is thus $3159 or 5.15 BTC.  This assumes 1 BTC = $613.40.

Each of these average 24.3K ICN stakes would get an equal amount of the weekly profit, or 80.77 / 3500 = 0.023 BTC per week, right?  Worth a weekly 0.023 * 613.40 = $14.10, or an annual $14.10 * 52 = $733.20.

Bottom line: IF ICNP hits the example 4X per year profit, the "average" ICN investor stands to make $733 per year in dividends on his $3159 ICO investment JUST FROM THE ICNP FUND.

@ ICONOMI, a question - in this example, ICONOMI has to come up with 80.77 BTC = $49.5K (approx.) per week of cash to distribute as dividends.   ICONOMI gets this cash by trading that amount of ICNP coin holdings into ETH and distributing the ETH - Is this correct?

I have few remarks on your comments:

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens... - there are 100M ICN tokens, not 85M. For dividends distribution it is irrelevant how the tokens were acquired (ICO, bounties or reserved). So you need to divide it by 100M

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors... - again, totla number of investors is irrelevant. Only how much dividends a single ICN token yields

Investors paid the ICO price of... - price is not fix for each investor..

I would do:
ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, and then divide that by the total amount of ICN tokens - that is the weekly profit for a single token. From here everyone can multiply it by the total amount of ICN tokens he/she posses.
Roughly I would say it will take around 50 weeks for 100% ROI - Just from that fund.
Sweeet
Will say that again - anyone who sells even a single token before the platform goes live is a weak hand and will cry later on

[XbladeX]

.....

@ ICONOMI, a question - in this example, ICONOMI has to come up with 80.77 BTC = $49.5K (approx.) per week of cash to distribute as dividends.   ....

In long run like year it can give us good dividends but that won't be like constant income just because crypto is moving PnD so to sell on pump. I think that will be more like 10$x 10 then pump and 50$

[honolulumark]

shiet, wish I had invested another $10k in this. 

[Daparski]

Hi all and @Iconomi team,

After reading thoroughly the related questions and answer from Jaka from the slack channel in regards to the performance fund money raised.
here is the answer from Jaka (thanks a lot for the efforts, it looked like a very busy evening there):
***
regarding your question "Will ICN holders OWN the performance fund and profit from any gains according to there share of ICN tokens? "  and all related questions… ... Answer is "not own, but profit from it"...   How? We all are investors into ICONOMI, and if ICONOMI invests its assets and benefits from it, then value of ICONOMI goes up… Lets illustrate.. if we would end ICO with $10M of raised capital, and you invested $1M (remember, 15% is reserved for founders/iconomi team, and 85% of ICN tokens are for investors, proportionally to size of their investment), that means that of 100M ICN tokens, you would get 8,5 million ((100M*0.85)*(1M/10M)). So you would be 8,5% owner of ICONOMI.
Now, ICONOMI can either sit on the money, or make the most out of it by investing. We could invest into bonds or stocks or put money in the bank account – but since we believe in decentralized economy, and are preparing our own investment vehicle for it, it is most logically to invest into our own vehicle (ICONOMI.PERFORMANCE fund). But from investor’s/shareholder’s point of view it is (almost) irrelevant. If investments will be profitable, then value of ICONOMI will rise and ICNs will be consequently worth more. Investors would benefit with ICN price going up, and additionally from: a) the maintenance fees that funds are paying  to ICONOMI, b) when funds make profit by liquidating an investment, ICONOMI gets a performance fee.
So to illustrate further – Shareholder of ICONOMI with 8,5% share, would be entitled for 8,5% of all these profits in form of dividends. And besides that his ICN dollar value would go up, since ICONOMI would be a profitable company.
***
Here is what I don't understand: The 10,000 BTC cap was set for funding the platform development and operational costs. Everything else goes to seed the .performance fund, which means that every ICO participant had actively invested a relative proportion of his investment into a fund called .performance fund - so why that money is LOCKED there? Does it mean that investing in future active managed funds will lock the investors money for good and they will only get prfits?? It does not make sense to me.
I personally thought that we will have an exit option of the .performance fund - after all we directly invested money into it

What am I missing here?

[rocketsTmac]

...Let's assume in the first year iconomi.performance invests 7000 BTC into icos, with an average <annual> return of 4x.  That's 21000 BTC profit.  ~20% of this profit will be sent to ICN token holders as dividends.  21000 BTC × 0.20 = 4200 BTC dividends...

<other analysis>

.... I have to say that I like the methodology. Ur pushing good content here MoveCrypto. Thx!

Let's examine this good example a little more to help me (and everybody else) understand just how this is gonna work.

Assume next week at launch that ICONOMI puts 7K BTC into ICNP and then gets 4X on the investment during Year One for a total of 28,000BTC as described above.  Subtract out the original 7K investment and you get the 21K profit mentioned above.  So far so good.

Say ICNP makes equal profit every week in Year One.  Then the weekly ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, right?

20% of the weekly profit is distributed as dividends to all ICN token holders.  So 403.85 BTC * 0.2 = 80.77 BTC would be distributed per week as dividends, right?  

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors so the average stake is 85,000,000/3500 = 24.3K ICN (round number).   Investors paid the ICO price of 0.13 USD per ICN or 0.00021228 BTC per ICN for each of their tokens.  Total ICO costs for an average 24.3K ICN stake is thus $3159 or 5.15 BTC.  This assumes 1 BTC = $613.40.

Each of these average 24.3K ICN stakes would get an equal amount of the weekly profit, or 80.77 / 3500 = 0.023 BTC per week, right?  Worth a weekly 0.023 * 613.40 = $14.10, or an annual $14.10 * 52 = $733.20.

Bottom line: IF ICNP hits the example 4X per year profit, the "average" ICN investor stands to make $733 per year in dividends on his $3159 ICO investment JUST FROM THE ICNP FUND.

@ ICONOMI, a question - in this example, ICONOMI has to come up with 80.77 BTC = $49.5K (approx.) per week of cash to distribute as dividends.   ICONOMI gets this cash by trading that amount of ICNP coin holdings into ETH and distributing the ETH - Is this correct?

I have few remarks on your comments:

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens... - there are 100M ICN tokens, not 85M. For dividends distribution it is irrelevant how the tokens were acquired (ICO, bounties or reserved). So you need to divide it by 100M

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors... - again, totla number of investors is irrelevant. Only how much dividends a single ICN token yields

Investors paid the ICO price of... - price is not fix for each investor..

I would do:
ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, and then divide that by the total amount of ICN tokens - that is the weekly profit for a single token. From here everyone can multiply it by the total amount of ICN tokens he/she posses.
Roughly I would say it will take around 50 weeks for 100% ROI - Just from that fund.
Sweeet
Will say that again - anyone who sells even a single token before the platform goes live is a weak hand and will cry later on

Holders will be very wealthy if the fund can be so profitable, we can get profit and price increase, this is the best situation.

[kingcrimson]

...Let's assume in the first year iconomi.performance invests 7000 BTC into icos, with an average <annual> return of 4x.  That's 21000 BTC profit.  ~20% of this profit will be sent to ICN token holders as dividends.  21000 BTC × 0.20 = 4200 BTC dividends...

<other analysis>

.... I have to say that I like the methodology. Ur pushing good content here MoveCrypto. Thx!

Let's examine this good example a little more to help me (and everybody else) understand just how this is gonna work.

Assume next week at launch that ICONOMI puts 7K BTC into ICNP and then gets 4X on the investment during Year One for a total of 28,000BTC as described above.  Subtract out the original 7K investment and you get the 21K profit mentioned above.  So far so good.

Say ICNP makes equal profit every week in Year One.  Then the weekly ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, right?

20% of the weekly profit is distributed as dividends to all ICN token holders.  So 403.85 BTC * 0.2 = 80.77 BTC would be distributed per week as dividends, right?  

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors so the average stake is 85,000,000/3500 = 24.3K ICN (round number).   Investors paid the ICO price of 0.13 USD per ICN or 0.00021228 BTC per ICN for each of their tokens.  Total ICO costs for an average 24.3K ICN stake is thus $3159 or 5.15 BTC.  This assumes 1 BTC = $613.40.

Each of these average 24.3K ICN stakes would get an equal amount of the weekly profit, or 80.77 / 3500 = 0.023 BTC per week, right?  Worth a weekly 0.023 * 613.40 = $14.10, or an annual $14.10 * 52 = $733.20.

Bottom line: IF ICNP hits the example 4X per year profit, the "average" ICN investor stands to make $733 per year in dividends on his original 5.15 BTC = $3159 ICO investment JUST FROM THE ICNP FUND.  Actual dividends received would be even higher when additional profits are included from other funds and overall ICN operations.

@ ICONOMI, a question - in this example, ICONOMI has to come up with 80.77 BTC = $49.5K (approx.) per week of cash to distribute as dividends.   ICONOMI gets this cash by trading that amount of ICNP coin holdings into ETH and then distributes the ETH - Is this correct?

A solid 10-20 % ROI would put this in ASIC Miner territory. A good long term hold.

[Daparski]

...Let's assume in the first year iconomi.performance invests 7000 BTC into icos, with an average <annual> return of 4x.  That's 21000 BTC profit.  ~20% of this profit will be sent to ICN token holders as dividends.  21000 BTC × 0.20 = 4200 BTC dividends...

<other analysis>

.... I have to say that I like the methodology. Ur pushing good content here MoveCrypto. Thx!

Let's examine this good example a little more to help me (and everybody else) understand just how this is gonna work.

Assume next week at launch that ICONOMI puts 7K BTC into ICNP and then gets 4X on the investment during Year One for a total of 28,000BTC as described above.  Subtract out the original 7K investment and you get the 21K profit mentioned above.  So far so good.

Say ICNP makes equal profit every week in Year One.  Then the weekly ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, right?

20% of the weekly profit is distributed as dividends to all ICN token holders.  So 403.85 BTC * 0.2 = 80.77 BTC would be distributed per week as dividends, right?  

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors so the average stake is 85,000,000/3500 = 24.3K ICN (round number).   Investors paid the ICO price of 0.13 USD per ICN or 0.00021228 BTC per ICN for each of their tokens.  Total ICO costs for an average 24.3K ICN stake is thus $3159 or 5.15 BTC.  This assumes 1 BTC = $613.40.

Each of these average 24.3K ICN stakes would get an equal amount of the weekly profit, or 80.77 / 3500 = 0.023 BTC per week, right?  Worth a weekly 0.023 * 613.40 = $14.10, or an annual $14.10 * 52 = $733.20.

Bottom line: IF ICNP hits the example 4X per year profit, the "average" ICN investor stands to make $733 per year in dividends on his $3159 ICO investment JUST FROM THE ICNP FUND.

@ ICONOMI, a question - in this example, ICONOMI has to come up with 80.77 BTC = $49.5K (approx.) per week of cash to distribute as dividends.   ICONOMI gets this cash by trading that amount of ICNP coin holdings into ETH and distributing the ETH - Is this correct?

I have few remarks on your comments:

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens... - there are 100M ICN tokens, not 85M. For dividends distribution it is irrelevant how the tokens were acquired (ICO, bounties or reserved). So you need to divide it by 100M

We've currently got 85M ICN tokens spread among roughly 3500 ICO investors... - again, totla number of investors is irrelevant. Only how much dividends a single ICN token yields

Investors paid the ICO price of... - price is not fix for each investor..

I would do:
ICNP profit is 21K / 52 weeks = 403.85 BTC profit per week, and then divide that by the total amount of ICN tokens - that is the weekly profit for a single token. From here everyone can multiply it by the total amount of ICN tokens he/she posses.
Roughly I would say it will take around 50 weeks for 100% ROI - Just from that fund.
Sweeet
Will say that again - anyone who sells even a single token before the platform goes live is a weak hand and will cry later on

Holders will be very wealthy if the fund can be so profitable, we can get profit and price increase, this is the best situation.

I made the highlighted estimation based on 100% profits return to shareholders. I guess it will be more like ~20%?

[cointrader83]

I am wondering how many people will not claim their bounties.  

Tomorrow we will see.

[MalReynolds]

A solid 10-20 % ROI would put this in ASIC Miner territory. A good long term hold.

"Make More Money Than Miners - Invest In ICONOMI / ICNP"

Jani - This slogan is yours to use if you want it - I won't mind.  

[MrPresident]

I really lost a lot of money. I dont know how i can buy my food today. Fuck. Shit IOU Trading.

You seriously gambled your food money away on IOU tokens?
No Lambo for you.

[MrPresident]

thay already announced they'd distribute the bounty on 7th.

Iconomi: "Your ICONOMI account is suspended".
Here is why: .

They also do not answer to my requests.


Are you able to access your coins yet? Is there a scam going on?

Any possible reason like what you did before this suspension happen?
Maybe you are caught cheating on bounties like having different twitter accounts or something. i don't see why an ICO account will be suspended aside from cheating on bounties.

Guys, i have a regular account. I submitted thousands of dollars worth of BTC and did not spam anything.

Yet my account is still suspended and no one cares about my requests.

SCAM ALERT

e: They do not even react to anything. I have no clue whats going on.

Your post has been addressed SEVERAL TIMES.
You're the ONLY one saying this.
Screenshot.... or it didn't happen.

[MrPresident]

Better to migrate Iconomi to sidechain on Lisk network,
once its possible because Eth network can be DDosed again.

What if it's being DDOS because of Iconomi? Then Lisk will be DDOSED.

Lisk has api limiting built right into the code. We spent months testing DDos and DOS.
Any attempt at DDoS will result in a network ban of the ip.

[Xtrata]

Better to migrate Iconomi to sidechain on Lisk network,
once its possible because Eth network can be DDosed again.

What if it's being DDOS because of Iconomi? Then Lisk will be DDOSED.

Lisk has api limiting built right into the code. We spent months testing DDos and DOS.
Any attempt at DDoS will result in a network ban of the ip.

Nothing is safe from DDoS attacks, doesn't matter how much it has been tried out.

[MrPresident]

Hi all and @Iconomi team,

HUGE EDIT   
It does not make sense to me.
I personally thought that we will have an exit option of the .performance fund - after all we directly invested money into it

What am I missing here?

Performance fund is simply kickstarted with funds so we all start earning profit much sooner.
The bigger the fund, the higher the profit potential, and more collected in fees.

[bones]

What am I missing here?

Initial overfunding is locked giving us/ icn holders as a group shares in the fund causing icn to gain value as a token.
Future funding would give the investors shares in  that fund that could be liquidated when you choose.

Thats how i see it working.

[MrPresident]

What am I missing here?

Initial overfunding is locked giving us/ icn holders as a group shares in the fund causing icn to gain value as a token.
Future funding would give the investors shares in  that fund that could be liquidated when you choose.

Thats how i see it working.

You are not in the Performance Fund by default by buying ICN tokens. You simply collect fees and dividends from it. The PF is an option, the IF is an option, and all the other funds to be created will be optional.

[target]

I am wondering how many people will not claim their bounties.  

Tomorrow we will see.

will they ever distribute the unclaimed bounties to those who claim?  that i wish

Better to migrate Iconomi to sidechain on Lisk network,
once its possible because Eth network can be DDosed again.

What if it's being DDOS because of Iconomi? Then Lisk will be DDOSED.

Lisk has api limiting built right into the code. We spent months testing DDos and DOS.
Any attempt at DDoS will result in a network ban of the ip.

Nothing is safe from DDoS attacks, doesn't matter how much it has been tried out.

The Lisk DDOS was pretty scary and we don't want that to happen to ICONOMI.  A lot of investors lost their money during that time.

[Daparski]

What am I missing here?

Initial overfunding is locked giving us/ icn holders as a group shares in the fund causing icn to gain value as a token.
Future funding would give the investors shares in  that fund that could be liquidated when you choose.

Thats how i see it working.

You are not in the Performance Fund by default by buying ICN tokens. You simply collect fees and dividends from it. The PF is an option, the IF is an option, and all the other funds to be created will be optional.

Optional? What do you mean by that? The money that will seed the performance fund will stay there forever? What is the difference between ICO seeding funds and future money invested? Why would future money invested be liquid-able and seed money not? Fund money is fund money
Optional would be to set the ICO cap to 10,000 BTC and THEN send invitation to all ICO participants for future and OPTIONAL participation in the fund
I am still missing something vital

[MrPresident]

I am wondering how many people will not claim their bounties.  

Tomorrow we will see.

will they ever distribute the unclaimed bounties to those who claim?  that i wish

Better to migrate Iconomi to sidechain on Lisk network,
once its possible because Eth network can be DDosed again.

What if it's being DDOS because of Iconomi? Then Lisk will be DDOSED.

Lisk has api limiting built right into the code. We spent months testing DDos and DOS.
Any attempt at DDoS will result in a network ban of the ip.

Nothing is safe from DDoS attacks, doesn't matter how much it has been tried out.

The Lisk DDOS was pretty scary and we don't want that to happen to ICONOMI.  A lot of investors lost their money during that time.

Over the past few months...  I was/am personally involved (the target)in several such tests. It took 110 servers firing api requests at 10 per second to shut down a single node... and that was BEFORE api limiting got built into the code.
So yea nothing is impossible, but the point you're missing is that Lisk is MUCH MORE resilient to DDos than ETH right now, by miles. As a matter of fact... there are only 2 major (arguably one) code tweaks left before forging will begin on the Lisk network...

[DeadBirdzz]

I am wondering how many people will not claim their bounties.  

Tomorrow we will see.

will they ever distribute the unclaimed bounties to those who claim?  that i wish

Better to migrate Iconomi to sidechain on Lisk network,
once its possible because Eth network can be DDosed again.

What if it's being DDOS because of Iconomi? Then Lisk will be DDOSED.

Lisk has api limiting built right into the code. We spent months testing DDos and DOS.
Any attempt at DDoS will result in a network ban of the ip.

Nothing is safe from DDoS attacks, doesn't matter how much it has been tried out.

The Lisk DDOS was pretty scary and we don't want that to happen to ICONOMI.  A lot of investors lost their money during that time.

You need to talk to our Supreme Leader Vitalik.

He's the only one that has the power to ensure that the ETHEREUM network gets its act together.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-wood-calls-quick-ethereum-hardfork-fix-dos-attacks/