[ANN] Firo (FIRO) - Implementing ZKP privacy without trusted setup

[jeremy grol]

Why won't Roger Ver even fire off a simple tweet about Zcoin? He's favorited one of my Zcoin tweets but he won't make a public statement of support himself.

You'd think a guy $500k invested in this thing would be a bit more proactive....

he realized he was scammed by indonesian vertcoin dev parapin who stole the work from a university colleague.

what a scam zcoin. the best scam of 2016.
Enjoy lambo paparin-poparin-ponjamin or what is your name.

I got all signs at beginning when price was 0.08 and after ONLY 20 days from launch 3 dev addresses were drained. when we asked to dev where those coins was sent the answers was "anon bounties"

Such scam.
After that a i sold all at 0.008 and most at 0.01.

Good luck bagholder.

I made a HUGE profit selling all range 0.01-0.08. maybe will buy more, but now this coins is red flag

[1714978947]

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[drays]

he realized he was scammed by indonesian vertcoin dev parapin who stole the work from a university colleague.

what a scam zcoin. the best scam of 2016.
Enjoy lambo paparin-poparin-ponjamin or what is your name.

I got all signs at beginning when price was 0.08 and after ONLY 20 days from launch 3 dev addresses were drained. when we asked to dev where those coins was sent the answers was "anon bounties"

Such scam.
After that a i sold all at 0.008 and most at 0.01.

Good luck bagholder.

I made a HUGE profit selling all range 0.01-0.08. maybe will buy more, but now this coins is red flag

I am sure you are lieing here. If you sold all your coins at 0.008 - 0.01 range, you wouldn't come here all the time and complain about dropping price of this coin  
You probably sold some and are accumulating now. Hence are actively spreading FUD now (the same way as you actively hyped this coin at the beginning). And all this - just to mislead people and take your profits. Dirty tactics, I would say...

This coin has real tech implemented (thats a huge plus), and also has 20% constant dev fee (thats ahuge minus). That is dangerously explosive combination - could explode in both ways, actually.
Its a pity the devs do not do real marketing campagn. No new useless 'advancements' or features are needed now, just a good 'awareness rasing'. Everyone speaks about zcash tech, and almost nobody knows of zcoin tech, which is better in some aspects.

[szachta]

I have sold 5x more expensive in trade satoshi zcoin.

[Goruno]

I have sold 5x more expensive in trade satoshi zcoin.

wow  you have more profit . I will buy it now . it's under 0.00119btc .

[Zer0Sum]

This coin has real tech implemented (thats a huge plus), and also has 20% constant dev fee (thats ahuge minus). That is dangerously explosive combination - could explode in both ways, actually.

Its a pity the devs do not do real marketing campagn. No new useless 'advancements' or features are needed now, just a good 'awareness rasing'. Everyone speaks about zcash tech, and almost nobody knows of zcoin tech, which is better in some aspects.

This coin is not ready for prime time (though the web site is exemplary)...
And there is way too much negativity here for a junior alt worth $300,000.

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

People here should be diversified in anon coins and maybe just come back in 6 months...
A lot can happen over time... it would not surprise me if ZEC totally implodes. 

https://github.com/zcoinofficial/zcoin/wiki/Roadmap

[zcoinofficial]

Take a listen to a debate between Gary Le from Zcoin and Riccardo (Fluffypony) from Monero. Both amazing projects!

Thanks to Cryptoholics for making this happen.

The interview can be seen on any of these links:

https://soundcloud.com/cryptoholics/ep02-interview-with-riccardo-spagni-of-monero-and-gary-le-of-zcoin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tO98jALPg4

http://www.cryptoholics.com/cryptoholics-ep02/

Also special thanks out there to the guys who keep on believing There will always be FUD out there but I believe the important questions have been answered and we do have a working implementation that the average Bitcoiner can use. The fact that we now have two Zcoin clones shows that there's real value in the tech behind the project.

FYI Poramin is Thai (not Indonesian) and has been the guy doing the dev all along. The colleague mentioned is Ankit whom Poramin maintains good relations with and had helped Poramin with writing documentation and giving presentations so there's no 'work stolen'.

[traumschiff]

Take a listen to a debate between Gary Le from Zcoin and Riccardo (Fluffypony) from Monero. Both amazing projects!

Thanks to Cryptoholics for making this happen.

The interview can be seen on any of these links:

https://soundcloud.com/cryptoholics/ep02-interview-with-riccardo-spagni-of-monero-and-gary-le-of-zcoin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tO98jALPg4

http://www.cryptoholics.com/cryptoholics-ep02/

Also special thanks out there to the guys who keep on believing There will always be FUD out there but I believe the important questions have been answered and we do have a working implementation that the average Bitcoiner can use. The fact that we now have two Zcoin clones shows that there's real value in the tech behind the project.

FYI Poramin is Thai (not Indonesian) and has been the guy doing the dev all along. The colleague mentioned is Ankit whom Poramin maintains good relations with and had helped Poramin with writing documentation and giving presentations so there's no 'work stolen'.

I would ask the people here to spread awareness and retweet CryptoHolics or my tweet of this interview:

https://twitter.com/cryptoholics/status/797941526215020544

https://twitter.com/_hightek/status/798079927727833088

[zcoinofficial]

Update on Dev 14 Nov 2016:

Our core dev Poramin has made strides towards implementation of the MTP protocol. In the paper on page 4 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.03588v1.pdf), he has separated the result in memory into block (step 1) and will integrate the Merkel tree and select the nonce (Step 2-3) within this week.There are altogether 10 steps in the implementation of MTP (six in algo 1 (prover's algorithm) and 4 in algo 2 (verifier's algorithm)).

We are still looking for devs to help out with other aspects of the project and bounties are available so if you feel that you can help out do reach out!

We are aware of the issues for e.g. with long startup times of the wallet and after discussion we believe that the MTP algorithm has to be implemented first before optimization happens on the wallet to ensure it remains secure. For security reasons, currently the wallet recalculates all public coin ids to make sure it is consistent across all nodes. With MTP and merkle tree implemented into it optimizations can happen as well as pruning so the decision has been made to focus on MTP first.

[Daniko7]

Good to see that the project is going on and the devs are still behind this coin. This will for sure have a good affect to the price of ZCOIN.
Thanks for the update. i belive in this coin and will further invest...

[tomsmith26]

Update on Dev 14 Nov 2016:

Our core dev Poramin has made strides towards implementation of the MTP protocol. In the paper on page 4 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.03588v1.pdf), he has separated the result in memory into block (step 1) and will integrate the Merkel tree and select the nonce (Step 2-3) within this week.There are altogether 10 steps in the implementation of MTP (six in algo 1 (prover's algorithm) and 4 in algo 2 (verifier's algorithm)).

We are still looking for devs to help out with other aspects of the project and bounties are available so if you feel that you can help out do reach out!

We are aware of the issues for e.g. with long startup times of the wallet and after discussion we believe that the MTP algorithm has to be implemented first before optimization happens on the wallet to ensure it remains secure. For security reasons, currently the wallet recalculates all public coin ids to make sure it is consistent across all nodes. With MTP and merkle tree implemented into it optimizations can happen as well as pruning so the decision has been made to focus on MTP first.

I have appraised this xzc correctly and I have bought it much more as possible

[dodofelix]

How many possibilities are there to be listed on polo? with this volume this coin seems that is going down and down and down

[zcoinofficial]

Bounty list updated!

We want to make this coin a success and are upping our bounties!

Best way to talk to us is via slack! Join us here to get an invite: http://162.243.153.71:3000/

MARKETING AND COMMUNITY

Acceptance into any of the top darknet markets listed here https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-market-comparison-chart/ : 15000 XZC
Cross network marketing (at least 2 quality posts a day) 1500-2000 XZC / month 

DEVELOPMENT

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC
GUI development to improve minting process Please contact devs or PM me.

[ERossin]

How many possibilities are there to be listed on polo? with this volume this coin seems that is going down and down and down

I'm sure it will be listed on Polo in next month. the price is cheap and that is my chance to collect some more cheap coins

[tomsmith26]

Bounty list updated!

We want to make this coin a success and are upping our bounties!

Best way to talk to us is via slack! Join us here to get an invite: http://162.243.153.71:3000/

MARKETING AND COMMUNITY

Acceptance into any of the top darknet markets listed here https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-market-comparison-chart/ : 15000 XZC
Cross network marketing (at least 2 quality posts a day) 1500-2000 XZC / month 

DEVELOPMENT

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC
GUI development to improve minting process Please contact devs or PM me.

That is news I 'm waiting for . The price is rising and some whales are coming back

[JonLord]

How many possibilities are there to be listed on polo? with this volume this coin seems that is going down and down and down

I'm sure it will be listed on Polo in next month. the price is cheap and that is my chance to collect some more cheap coins

Sure, do not forget this coin's name is Zerocoin, the first of its name, the first working zeroprotocol, the first and stop. But it's also true that 10x volume is needed

[wtman]

Bounty list updated!

We want to make this coin a success and are upping our bounties!

Best way to talk to us is via slack! Join us here to get an invite: http://162.243.153.71:3000/

MARKETING AND COMMUNITY

Acceptance into any of the top darknet markets listed here https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-market-comparison-chart/ : 15000 XZC
Cross network marketing (at least 2 quality posts a day) 1500-2000 XZC / month 

DEVELOPMENT

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC
GUI development to improve minting process Please contact devs or PM me.

Sounds good. Zcoin has a lot of potential ahead. It is good that the developers have incentive to continue its development and provide the support when it is needed.

I would like to make some suggestions to get serious people onboard this project.

Make a second network called ZFunds. Let us assume ZFunds will have 100 coins. Each coin gets you 0.2% of the mining rewards. So the developers will initially own the 100 coins which give them 20% rewards. Later on, in order to get reputed and talented people onboard this project, you can offer them a financial incentive in the form of ZFunds. Again, good luck with this project. I expect it to take off soon.

[drays]

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible  centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

[zcoinofficial]

Bounty list updated!

We want to make this coin a success and are upping our bounties!

Best way to talk to us is via slack! Join us here to get an invite: http://162.243.153.71:3000/

MARKETING AND COMMUNITY

Acceptance into any of the top darknet markets listed here https://www.deepdotweb.com/dark-net-market-comparison-chart/ : 15000 XZC
Cross network marketing (at least 2 quality posts a day) 1500-2000 XZC / month  

DEVELOPMENT

Dev to help update Bitcoin core code to 0.13 2000 XZC
Develop open source pool software that supports MTP 3000 XZC
GPU miner with MTP algorithm 2000 XZC
CPU miner with MTP algorithm 1500 XZC
GUI development to improve minting process Please contact devs or PM me.

Let me ask a simple question!
You guys added zerocoin into old code.
Why did not you use 13.x code in the first place??

Gui development? Basically copy paste and compile??
Too hard?

When development started on Zcoin, 13.x code was not available and it is not a trivial integration. Despite the Zerocoin whitepaper released and the libs released, our devs are the first to implement it which I think speaks volume as to the difficulty of the project.
If it was indeed a copy paste matter, then someone should grab that bounty ;P

[zcoinofficial]

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible  centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

You are right. Botnets tend to be controlled by a single entity which destroys centralization.

However, the implementation of MTP is not solely for banning botnets and there are other reasons such as it being 'progress-free' and also fast to verify.

Progress free means the mining process must be stochastic so that the probability to find a solution grows steadily with time and is non-zero for small time periods which can be argued to discourage centralization. For example with Equihash, it takes several seconds to get a proof that certifies the memory allocation which makes the algorithm not 'progress free' as the probability of finding a solution during the allocation time is zero.

Also although finding the solution should be memory hard (to be ASIC resistant), verifying the solution should be fast and require little memory to prevent DOS attacks on verifiers. Lyra the algo we are using now is pretty slow on verification.

[Zer0Sum]

Do people not realize that the mining algo is not a "feature"...
It's at the absolute security and functional core of the entire network and venture...
That the current CPU mining algo has always been a temporary hack...
And if MTP will take 4-5 months nothing matters except getting that hard fork right.

Sure, you might be completely correct.

However... excuse my ignority, possibly this was discussed hundreds of times before, but could someone explain me what is specifically bad in botnets mining the coin?

I understand that is not fair, as they get the coin almost for free, and botnet owners are basically thieves. And also it is bad for regular miners, who have to spend much more hashrate to compete.
But what is the harm for the coin itself? The features (anon and everything else) works perfectly regardless of who is mining the coin - botnets or normal miners. Both botnets and regular miners are typically dumping their mined coins immediately, so there is no big difference between them for the coin price. If there is an appropriate demand, adoption, and the all the tech is working well, everything should be ok with the coin.. So what is the point in implementing MTP and banning botnets?

I am not implying anything, just curious

EDIT: ok, I gave it a bit more thought, and probably the bad thing in botnet mining is the possible  centralisation (if most botnets belong to the same group of people), and hence the possibility of 51% attack..? Is this the thing?

I wasn't really trying to focus on MTP specifically...
But point out that the XZC team is still working out a lot of new, complex tech...
And is at least 6 months away from taking on the XMRs of this world.

Meanwhile, their web site and github postings and roadmap are excellent...
And the communication in this thread is daily and first class...
So nothing about this project sets off "short-term scam" alarms for me...
Maybe the anon area is getting a little crowded, but there will be several winners.

Just look at the #150 area of CMC...
That's a springboard zone where coins often make a yuge jump in 6-12 months...
How many of those would you like to own (I own XZC, COVAL, PSB)?