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Author Topic: [ANN] Zcoin (XZC) - Implementing Zerocoin technology for financial privacy  (Read 530348 times)
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bolehvpn
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October 27, 2016, 02:17:56 AM
 #1461

I heard many people talking about this coin in this forum. What is the difference between this coin and other anon coins?
I am just a layman and don't understand all the technical jargons. If anyone can explain to me, I can decide for myself whether this coin is worth buying.

What i need to find out is also how does Zerocoin scale compared to Zcash/Monero and that would be an important question to answer.


Great draft! Thanks  Wink

Also curious about scalability, if crypto adoption really kicks in I'm sure we will see some stalled networks.

This link explains it somewhat: http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/

Basically Zcoin trades off larger storage space on the blockchain in favour of faster compute times and lesser memory requirements on the client side.

Quote
Zcoin’s private transactions are not memory-intensive as with Zcash. On a quad-core benchmark server, generating a private transaction with “Zerocoin mint” and “Zerocoin spend” consumes ~10 seconds of compute time. Thus, sending a private transaction with Zcoin could be between 5-200 times faster than Zcash, depending on device.

On the other hand, Zcoin’s private transaction sizes are about 50 times larger than Zcash’s transaction sizes. This will not be a limiting issue for several reasons. One easy fix would be to update Zcoin to support pruning:

In his whitepaper, Satoshi had mentioned “pruning” as a solution to Bitcoin’s potential future scalability issue. Surprisingly, it’s not discussed often. When there is greater demand for Zcoin transactions than its capacity, Zcoin can build pruning into the protocol. This way, the storage requirements for Zcoin could be minimal.

By stubbing off branches in the merkle tree to save storage space, pruning could be built into Zcoin in a similar fashion as described in Satoshi’s whitepaper

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October 27, 2016, 04:59:57 AM
 #1462

So no one has issues with this coin being funneled into the mouths of a handful of people? Botnets and AWS, it's the same shit. Whole reason I've been bringing it up over the last couple weeks. Why would developers pick a random version of Lyra, even if there going to eventually switch?

Worse, why would they have the rows increase with every block?

That's what I meant, it's not Lyra2 or Lyra2v2, it's a weird ass version I guess that doesn't have mature CPU or GPU mining software out for. Obscurity? They don't plan on keeping it either, which makes it all the weirder.

So no one has issues with this coin being funneled into the mouths of a handful of people? Botnets and AWS, it's the same shit. Whole reason I've been bringing it up over the last couple weeks. Why would developers pick a random version of Lyra, even if there going to eventually switch?

Well a lot of these miners/botnets are dumping these mined coins on the exchanges which also allows distribution Cheesy With the early stages of any coin, it is always a handful of people who benefit (those who figure out how to get a miner working for the coin and get in early enough).

The whole point of this weird Lyra version was to make it CPU limited until they figured out an ideal algo (which they thought would be MTP). You would think that CPU mined algos would be the best in ensuring a fair distribution but due to AWS and botnets, maybe GPU friendly algos are better. But making it GPU friendly does it make it less asic resistant? Granted, the algo right now is in urgent need of replacement and I know that the devs are currently deliberating their options and were actively soliciting opinions on slack.

You could do that with a normal algo if it's just a placeholder. There was no reason to make it a weird version of Lyra unless they wanted to keep it in the handful of peoples hands.

Lyra2 is a CPU algo, they could've used Cryptonote, m7m, yescrypt... There are other choices.

This goes back to the first point, why would you make it a CPU algo which is heavily dominated by botnets and AWS instances? A more uniform distribution would go to GPU miners. They could've just made it a ASIC algo like x11 or sha-256 and it would've accomplished the same thing.

There are plenty of GPU algos that are ASIC resistant and going round about to a handful of people getting the majority of the distribution, both of which you don't want. AWS users and botnets.

It's already hypothesized that the devs are dumping coins... What are also the chances they made this into a coin they could easily mine that others don't have much experience in on purpose? Just happened that this shitcoin got off the ground... somehow. They don't even have a timeline for their new 'real' algo, probably due to the amount of money they're making.

just favours a different crowd; everyone will have a whinge if x mining method isn't within their grasp.

Oh yeah? So you think ASICs are good too? You want a bunch of coins going to a handful of people, right? And people will whine if they are making buttloads of money and don't think other people should too.

ASICs actually ARE good from a network security standpoint. But that's neither here nor there - most people can take the time to learn how to utilize AWS, don't blame others for your laziness.

Yeah, but that's definitely not the only point of mining. The point is the distribution model is messed up, it's not about 'taking the time to do something', its' about making a method that most people don't know how to do and making them waste time figuring it out, while in the mean time the coins are unfairly distributed to those who already have experience. It's no different then ASICs. Anyone can go and buy ASICs. Putting aside private ones, they're on the market and do exist. They're being funneled into the hands of a handful of people.

It wouldn't surprise me if the devs already had a prviate GPU miner already primed for this coin before it came out or AWS/botnet. There is literally absolutely no reason for it to be a messed up version of Lyra, that is neither the CPU version (Lyra2, which has a GPU miner) or the GPU version (Lyra2v2, which also has a CPU miner).

Going back to talking about 'security' of a coin, how 'secure' is a coin where almost all coins are in the hands of a handful of people? What happens when they decide to dump. While it might be technologically 'secure', it's definitely not 'secure' from a economical standpoint.


ASICs actually ARE good from a network security standpoint. But that's neither here nor there - most people can take the time to learn how to utilize AWS, don't blame others for your laziness.

The thing that gets lost in all of this is mining SHOULD be hard, it's not easy to mine gold, why should crypto mining be the same? To me the more difficult to accomplish such a task, the more value it gives to it.

I work hard at my dayjob to accumulate extra funds to buy crypto, likewise why shouldn't a miner have to put in a little work to get their share as well?

Why should it be hard and what constitutes being 'hard'? It could be economically 'hard', meaning if you don't have money, you can't mine. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you looking for a obscure method that no one knows about except you, so while they're busy figuring it out you make a lot of money? Is that hard for you?

I assume you're not the only one that has to make money to mine. Get off your high horse. No one gets free hardware, software, and time. Most miners aren't well off and many have loans.

That's completely putting aside it's unhealthy to funnel all the mined coins into a handful of accounts that can be dumped and overlooking that statement coming from someone who is make a inordinate amount of money and doesn't want anyone else taking part in it... IE greed.

Continuing on the trend of something being 'hard'. Lets say someone has spent years acquiring hardware and spent a lot of time building a GPU farm. You are new to the game and you don't have any funds, hardware, and all you have is time. Do you think their 'hard work' has no value because you don't have the same 'hard  work' they do (GPUs)? When do you get to decide that their 'hard work' is now worthless because you don't like the fact they can earn more money then you?

Oh and something being 'hard to mine' doesn't serve to the greater good of a coin. Market value has nothing to do with how hard something is to mine... Contrary to that, if there are a handful of people who are mining, it makes a coin economically very insecure (IE they can dump and destroy the market).

I buy private Nvidia miners. Send information and/or inquiries to my PM box.
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October 27, 2016, 06:37:55 AM
 #1463

Being involved with Dash, when the x11 ASICS came, only a handful of manufacturers and they are selling it at exorbitant prices that would probably never break even. A problem that still exists today. I suspect the vast majority of these miners are being retained by the manufacturers themselves.

We can't liken it to Bitcoin when it was the only cryptocurrency around but even then it's still only a handful of manufacturers. Bitmain is basically the only one where outsiders can get their hands on the miner easily.

They always talk about 'hash rate' as protection but I would argue that if it requires specialized hardware that only can be obtained from a few sources, that hash rate protection is a bit meaningless. It just makes it easier for the ASICS to dominate.


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October 27, 2016, 08:46:28 AM
 #1464

I need helping making a pool for this coin,

 I have everything ready I just can't get lyra2rev2 algo to work with the stratum I keep getting a lyra2rev2 is not supported algo

https://github.com/wareck/node-multi-hashing

 I've added and installed this^, to my nomp package

can someone maybe send me the conf nomp files, I've been working on this for 2 weeks now and have been going insane at every step, but I just cant seem to find any data on getting this algo to work nomp! :/
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October 27, 2016, 08:50:32 AM
 #1465

just favours a different crowd; everyone will have a whinge if x mining method isn't within their grasp.

Exactly.

I could be on here crying over every coin with GPU mining ( since I no longer have my rig ).
Instead, I wait till an opportunity to cloud mine comes along & grab it.

Crazy thing is... anyone can cloud mine, they just need to learn how. Ain't rocket science.
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October 27, 2016, 09:17:49 AM
 #1466

just favours a different crowd; everyone will have a whinge if x mining method isn't within their grasp.

Exactly.

I could be on here crying over every coin with GPU mining ( since I no longer have my rig ).
Instead, I wait till an opportunity to cloud mine comes along & grab it.

Crazy thing is... anyone can cloud mine, they just need to learn how. Ain't rocket science.

Miners thought:
-GPU: dev, switch to cpu please, there are plenty of gpu farm+nicehash mining, i can't do profit with my home 10 gpu, i have bills to pay
-CPU: dev, please switch to gpu, i have 6 gpu to mine and only 1 cpu.
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October 27, 2016, 12:17:14 PM
 #1467

At the end of the day, the algo is gonna change very soon, ZCash is launching tomorrow so who knows where the market is heading. There is going to be a major hype around ZCash but which will be the one that is adopted by the masses?

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October 27, 2016, 12:23:49 PM
 #1468

At the end of the day, the algo is gonna change very soon, ZCash is launching tomorrow so who knows where the market is heading. There is going to be a major hype around ZCash but which will be the one that is adopted by the masses?



I'm preparing pop corn Smiley
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October 27, 2016, 01:32:41 PM
 #1469

Zcoin could still take the inner turn by releasing some slick wallets etc.

But does not seem like dev team has their shit together.

Unfortunate.
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October 27, 2016, 02:27:58 PM
 #1470

Considering the fact that Roger Ver is invested in both of these coins I would think the best approach is to have one hand in two pies  Grin. I think there will be a future for both however there is trust issues with ZCash, its all dependent if people can trust the ZCash devs. ZCoin on  the other hand has a RSA setup however the Zcoin  mint  process takes ages to get onto the block chain it took me 12+ hours to be able to spend minted Zcoins.

Both coins have there issues its all dependent on which is most trusted while been practical in real world scenarios.
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October 27, 2016, 03:43:49 PM
 #1471

there is trust issues with ZCash, its all dependent if people can trust the ZCash devs.
Both coins have there issues its all dependent on which is most trusted while been practical in real world scenarios.

I don't even worry as much about the Zcash devs but more a hacker finding an exploit and keeping his method hidden while he secretly mints coins.
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October 27, 2016, 03:49:32 PM
 #1472

Is a zcoin price drop inevitable in the coming days? Only time will tell. I think it might be good to switch my spare CPUs over to Zcash and buy Zcoin if we do hit a valley in price.

Or I won't flinch and will just leave the CPUs here. Depends on how busy the day is  Roll Eyes

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October 27, 2016, 08:03:11 PM
 #1473

Is a zcoin price drop inevitable in the coming days? Only time will tell. I think it might be good to switch my spare CPUs over to Zcash and buy Zcoin if we do hit a valley in price.

Or I won't flinch and will just leave the CPUs here. Depends on how busy the day is  Roll Eyes

Why would you mine a coin as much hyped as ZCASH is...? The hype is so loud, everyone will start mining it as soon as it releases, so it could be the worst time to mine it. It is like buying a coin, which is being hyped hardest. To me, if something is being heavily hyped, there is no opportunity anymore. You should be there before the hype, not after... As with ZCash its impossible, its better to buy it when interest will be not so big and it will be temporarily dumped (I am sure it will).

All this is theory, of course, as every coin is different and many scenarios possible...

Would be interesting to watch this Smiley. We should have exchanged ZCoin to maize instead of potatos, so we have a lot of popcorn ready Smiley

... this space is not for rent ...
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October 27, 2016, 08:11:53 PM
 #1474

Which one is better for mining: 1x32 cores or 4x8 cores? or both same? (with same CPU clock)



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October 27, 2016, 08:54:44 PM
 #1475

Which one is better for mining: 1x32 cores or 4x8 cores? or both same? (with same CPU clock)

4x8 cores should definitely be better, but real measurements are welcome Smiley

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October 27, 2016, 09:13:39 PM
 #1476

What is the best miner to use for CPU? Does a miner exist for Windows or is it only for Linux and do I have to compile the miner myself?
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October 27, 2016, 09:18:44 PM
 #1477

Kraken just sent out an email that Zcash trading will commence in the morning. With a supply of almost zero and this hype, we haven't seen anything quite like this. Here's a paste of the email text: http://pastebin.com/q7wr8Wv2

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
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October 27, 2016, 09:26:58 PM
 #1478

What is the best miner to use for CPU? Does a miner exist for Windows or is it only for Linux and do I have to compile the miner myself?

Here you get two windows miner:

https://github.com/ocminer/cpuminer-xzc/releases

https://github.com/felixbrucker/cpuminer-xzc/releases

The miner recompiled by felixbrucker shows H/s instead von Kh/s
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October 27, 2016, 11:46:17 PM
 #1479

Is a zcoin price drop inevitable in the coming days? Only time will tell. I think it might be good to switch my spare CPUs over to Zcash and buy Zcoin if we do hit a valley in price.

Or I won't flinch and will just leave the CPUs here. Depends on how busy the day is  Roll Eyes

Why would you mine a coin as much hyped as ZCASH is...? The hype is so loud, everyone will start mining it as soon as it releases, so it could be the worst time to mine it. It is like buying a coin, which is being hyped hardest. To me, if something is being heavily hyped, there is no opportunity anymore. You should be there before the hype, not after... As with ZCash its impossible, its better to buy it when interest will be not so big and it will be temporarily dumped (I am sure it will).

All this is theory, of course, as every coin is different and many scenarios possible...

Would be interesting to watch this Smiley. We should have exchanged ZCoin to maize instead of potatos, so we have a lot of popcorn ready Smiley

I know there is a ton of hype, and probably thousands of workers laying in wait for release... I'm lining up my EC2 instances right now too though  Wink

The hype is half the fun! other half is cashing out

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October 28, 2016, 12:17:35 AM
 #1480

Is it zcoin.tech or dot org? little bit confused here.
On github says org but here only see tech.

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