Is taxation theft?

[HabBear]

As long as the People get to vote for the taxes that are imposed taxes cannot be theft.

There's a consequence to our decisions...most of us learn that as wee tots. You make your choice with the policies and politicians you elect into office. If you don't like what's happening in your area vote the leaders out...vote in people with better ideas.

Now, taxation without representation (without a vote) is absolutely theft.

[freedomno1]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

 
It depends it can be considered as the price for a bridge to tomorrow in a sense the taxes you pay are the price to reflect existence.
But if you don't receive the benefit relative to the cost you pay it's not worth it for some to be a citizen of a place.

[Sithara007]

As long as the People get to vote for the taxes that are imposed taxes cannot be theft.

Can't agree. Everyone gets to vote (although in some countries, felons are not eligible to take part in the electoral process). If you are restricting the voting rights just to the tax payers, then I would have agreed with you. But that is not the case.

[sanaravena]

I've recently started paying taxes and now I start noticing even more flaws in laws, in work of municipal structures, now I have even better idea what can be done with this money and it's not being done at all. So, in my country it's mostly disappointing.
But I think paying taxes makes you a better citizen, more aware of what's going on around you, more worried about the future and more enthusiastic about making an impact.
On the other hand, if gov uses it on militarizing, for example, you are partly responsible for that as well.
The idea is good, but there're so many sides to it.

[olubams]

I dont see Tax as stealing because I try to look at it if its backed by law as we have most taxes in sane society because government that we have put to run our affairs wont do it from their personal pockets its going to be from our collective contribution which tax is also included but where I will have issues is from the position of paying of unnecessary dues all in the name of taxes, then that is pure theft even though I cannot prove that and majority of governments are guilty of this even in advanced world...

[Forester618]

As long as the People get to vote for the taxes that are imposed taxes cannot be theft.

Can't agree. Everyone gets to vote (although in some countries, felons are not eligible to take part in the electoral process). If you are restricting the voting rights just to the tax payers, then I would have agreed with you. But that is not the case.

If you vote, only those who pay taxes to protect the country and to serve in the army too, would they? Not fair turns out. Have no right to vote because you don't pay taxes, and give or at least risk their lives for the state obliged. Where is the logic?

[GreenBits]

As long as the People get to vote for the taxes that are imposed taxes cannot be theft.

Can't agree. Everyone gets to vote (although in some countries, felons are not eligible to take part in the electoral process). If you are restricting the voting rights just to the tax payers, then I would have agreed with you. But that is not the case.

If you vote, only those who pay taxes to protect the country and to serve in the army too, would they? Not fair turns out. Have no right to vote because you don't pay taxes, and give or at least risk their lives for the state obliged. Where is the logic?

Being part of a government is knowing that sometimes the will of the people will differ from ones individual desires. If the process was legit (*cough*Trump*cough*), then you have to deal with choices one's elected officials make. For better, or for worse. So the no taxation without representation thing breaks down in modern society; for every tax you pay, some will benefit your demographic, some will benefit out groups. It should never directly hinder any group, lest it's broken. But, with taxes, you can't win em all. You reap the benefits of modern society; you pay its dues.

[Forester618]

I agree to pay their contributions to the society, but only when I share the politics of the state and see that my money is not stolen by corrupt politicians. Additionally, the amount of the contribution should be adequate. When the tax amount exceeds 50% of my income is spent on not clear to me the goals I am against.

[Raxitto]

Since robbery is a crime, regardless of whether it is practiced by citizens or whether by governments, the fact is that I see few people who know how to give a correct justification for this statement. This is partly due to the easy intuition generated by it, because anyone knows that if a person does not pay taxes and resist the intimidation of the state, they will be kidnapped by the government.

[HabBear]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

As long as the People get to vote for the taxes that are imposed taxes cannot be theft.

Can't agree. Everyone gets to vote (although in some countries, felons are not eligible to take part in the electoral process). If you are restricting the voting rights just to the tax payers, then I would have agreed with you. But that is not the case.

[GreenBits]

Since robbery is a crime, regardless of whether it is practiced by citizens or whether by governments, the fact is that I see few people who know how to give a correct justification for this statement. This is partly due to the easy intuition generated by it, because anyone knows that if a person does not pay taxes and resist the intimidation of the state, they will be kidnapped by the government.

It's possible to live without paying taxes. Income taxes, at least. You can't get around sales tax for the most part. Anyway, you will need to own your house or have really, really low rent. You will need to have an income below the threshold for income tax reporting, which is meager, but livable if you have a superior housing situation. But the most important thing you will need, is to produce your own food. You won't be able to avoid paying for certain things, like fuel, power, and healthcare.

But, it really is possible to live without paying taxes. You just, basically, can't make wages. On paper, at least

[Sithara007]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

(1) I don't want the felons to vote. Those who commit violent offenses such as rape and murder should be barred from taking part in any democratic exercise. Else there is a risk that they will elect someone who will help them to commit crimes.

(2) IMO, everyone should pay taxes. It is not the responsibility of a small part of the population to fund the government.

[GreenBits]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

(1) I don't want the felons to vote. Those who commit violent offenses such as rape and murder should be barred from taking part in any democratic exercise. Else there is a risk that they will elect someone who will help them to commit crimes.

(2) IMO, everyone should pay taxes. It is not the responsibility of a small part of the population to fund the government.

What is the purpose of serving time, if you are to be punished to the end of your days anyway? Seems like the debt to society can never be repaid under this scheme.

It's seems as though you are saying people are unable to change themselves.

What exactly would a pro crime candidate look like? ' I'm soft of crime, big on criminal rights'. Maybe the problem isn't the felons, maybe we should focus on these Lex Luthor style politicians you speak of

And  I agree everyone should pay taxes, that can. Just like I believe everyone should be able to vote. Solves that problem real quickly and elegantly.

[Forester618]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

(1) I don't want the felons to vote. Those who commit violent offenses such as rape and murder should be barred from taking part in any democratic exercise. Else there is a risk that they will elect someone who will help them to commit crimes.

(2) IMO, everyone should pay taxes. It is not the responsibility of a small part of the population to fund the government.

And how do you then you will require the criminals to perform civic duties and to comply with the laws? If they lisheen voting rights, it means they are not citizens? And in the event of war, how will you send them to the front? They say that politicians started the war and we did not vote for them.

[Fizamcc]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

(1) I don't want the felons to vote. Those who commit violent offenses such as rape and murder should be barred from taking part in any democratic exercise. Else there is a risk that they will elect someone who will help them to commit crimes.

(2) IMO, everyone should pay taxes. It is not the responsibility of a small part of the population to fund the government.

And how do you then you will require the criminals to perform civic duties and to comply with the laws? If they lisheen voting rights, it means they are not citizens? And in the event of war, how will you send them to the front? They say that politicians started the war and we did not vote for them.

And you look how many criminals in power and how many crimes on their conscience and the severity of which is very different. You can take every country and find those who have violated the law and are in power. But what about those who are accused and condemned, and later they are not guilty. Femida is blind, forgotten?

[BADecker]

SLASH AND BURN! TRUMP JUST MOVED AGAINST TAXES IN A BIG WAY AND AMERICANS ARE CHEERING!

NAOMI JAGODA for The Hill reports, President Trump on Thursday met with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin about tax reform, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said, as the White House enters its "first stages" of tackling the issue.

SLASH AND BURN! TRUMP JUST MOVED AGAINST TAXES IN A BIG WAY AND AMERICANS ARE CHEERING!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XiuAqsOIyM

[darkangel11]

What is the purpose of serving time, if you are to be punished to the end of your days anyway? Seems like the debt to society can never be repaid under this scheme.

It's seems as though you are saying people are unable to change themselves.

What exactly would a pro crime candidate look like? ' I'm soft of crime, big on criminal rights'. Maybe the problem isn't the felons, maybe we should focus on these Lex Luthor style politicians you speak of

Serving time is a strange name, because it's the government who is serving you. You sit on your butt all day reading books and magazines, you get 3 meals a day and medical care for years... Compare it to the life of a homeless guy that sleeps in filth and struggles to survive another day.

And  I agree everyone should pay taxes, that can. Just like I believe everyone should be able to vote. Solves that problem real quickly and elegantly.

How are you going to determine who can?

I think everybody should pay just taxes. An income based tax isn't one of those.

[Sithara007]

Trying to understand this a bit better, so you're disagreeing because (1) felons don't get to vote and (2) have to pay taxes. Therefore taxation is theft for everyone?

(1) I don't want the felons to vote. Those who commit violent offenses such as rape and murder should be barred from taking part in any democratic exercise. Else there is a risk that they will elect someone who will help them to commit crimes.

(2) IMO, everyone should pay taxes. It is not the responsibility of a small part of the population to fund the government.

And how do you then you will require the criminals to perform civic duties and to comply with the laws? If they lisheen voting rights, it means they are not citizens? And in the event of war, how will you send them to the front? They say that politicians started the war and we did not vote for them.

The criminals forego their right to perform civic duties, when they commit violent crimes such as rape and murder. Once you break the law, you are an outcast. I don't want the rapists to decide the outcome of an election.

[BADecker]

Nations and governments are different.

In a land like the United States where private property is king, taxation is taking some of your property from you. This is stealing. Such companies as the IRS steal the property by doing it in a complex enough way in court that it is difficult for most people to beat them.

If you want to beat the IRS in court, do two basic, essential things:
1. Go common law in a court of record where you aren't represented by a lawyer or yourself, but instead you are present.
2. Require a court of record where the plaintiff has to get on the stand and show the harm or damage you did to him/her, and prove it was you that did the harm or damage.

Google and Youtube search on "Karl Lentz common law." Study, study, study.

[PeterTheGrape]

Nations and governments are different.

In a land like the United States where private property is king, taxation is taking some of your property from you. This is stealing. Such companies as the IRS steal the property by doing it in a complex enough way in court that it is difficult for most people to beat them.
...

Taxes should be used for infrastructure and services that most people agree with, without having to be coerced.

When things get to the point where most people are avoiding taxes to some extent then something is not right. Taxes by themself are a necessary thing, but when a government adds on vast self perpetuating structures that requires millions of employees then it is ridiculous.

You can look at the tax forms used in the U.S. and they are very difficult to decypher. Add line 1 to line 16, then subtract 30% of line 58, divide by 6 and add 3 times half of line 31, on and on. Why not just "pay 5% of your income, 10% if you are caught cheating".