Is taxation theft?

[ePesoInitiative]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

[BADecker]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

That's what we did regarding America. In America, taxes are collected by trickery and lies. So, lets get rid of the trickery and lies.

[BTC STRATEGIST]

Most on the economic left start from the assumption that it is all things being equal a bad thing that the state takes our money from us, but hold that this prima facie bad is justified by the public goods which taxation makes possible. Well-meaning [UK] public intellectual Alain de Botton encourages us to think of taxation as charity: we give up what’s ours for the greater good of our society.

[BADecker]

Most on the economic left start from the assumption that it is all things being equal a bad thing that the state takes our money from us, but hold that this prima facie bad is justified by the public goods which taxation makes possible. Well-meaning [UK] public intellectual Alain de Botton encourages us to think of taxation as charity: we give up what’s ours for the greater good of our society.

You can get the same results by itemizing the things you want done, letting people donate for them, and then giving the benefits to those who donated. This is what a cooperative does.

Cooperatives are voluntary, act like governments, are worker/member supported, are beneficial to all members, and itemize where the money is being spent so that people get what they pay for, but don't get what they do not pay for.

A properly formed cooperative would be the absolute best form of government... no taxes... only purchases.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative for more info.

[Marcus_2017]

Most on the economic left start from the assumption that it is all things being equal a bad thing that the state takes our money from us, but hold that this prima facie bad is justified by the public goods which taxation makes possible. Well-meaning [UK] public intellectual Alain de Botton encourages us to think of taxation as charity: we give up what’s ours for the greater good of our society.

You can get the same results by itemizing the things you want done, letting people donate for them, and then giving the benefits to those who donated. This is what a cooperative does.

Cooperatives are voluntary, act like governments, are worker/member supported, are beneficial to all members, and itemize where the money is being spent so that people get what they pay for, but don't get what they do not pay for.

A properly formed cooperative would be the absolute best form of government... no taxes... only purchases.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative for more info.

For example, I heard such idea. That you cannot give alms to the poor. We do not know for what God is punishing this man. Such actions we get involved in divine punishment. Moreover what happens if the money that you will give him he will drink alcohol and kill someone?

[BADecker]

Most on the economic left start from the assumption that it is all things being equal a bad thing that the state takes our money from us, but hold that this prima facie bad is justified by the public goods which taxation makes possible. Well-meaning [UK] public intellectual Alain de Botton encourages us to think of taxation as charity: we give up what’s ours for the greater good of our society.

You can get the same results by itemizing the things you want done, letting people donate for them, and then giving the benefits to those who donated. This is what a cooperative does.

Cooperatives are voluntary, act like governments, are worker/member supported, are beneficial to all members, and itemize where the money is being spent so that people get what they pay for, but don't get what they do not pay for.

A properly formed cooperative would be the absolute best form of government... no taxes... only purchases.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative for more info.

For example, I heard such idea. That you cannot give alms to the poor. We do not know for what God is punishing this man. Such actions we get involved in divine punishment. Moreover what happens if the money that you will give him he will drink alcohol and kill someone?

I don't understand what you are saying.

In America, there are cooperatives operating right now. They usually use money. But some may not.

In Great Depression times (early 1930s), many cooperatives were formed in America where people worked together and supported each other. There was very little money, so the cooperatives operated without it. If the nation did this today, we could get by without the IRS.

[Sithara007]

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

It is not possible to start your own country. The entire planet is divided in to a number of nations, and there is no free space. Even the continent of Antarctica is owned by countries such as France and Norway. Not even the ocean is outside their jurisdiction.

[BADecker]

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

It is not possible to start your own country. The entire planet is divided in to a number of nations, and there is no free space. Even the continent of Antarctica is owned by countries such as France and Norway. Not even the ocean is outside their jurisdiction.

The people of any nation can overthrow their government if they want to badly enough.

[joromz1226]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

No! it is not a theft, it is legal actually. And it is also written in the Bible that we need to pay taxes. Now if some of the officials in the government are greed in money they can  steal the some of the taxes in the government.

[Janation]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

No! it is not a theft, it is legal actually. And it is also written in the Bible that we need to pay taxes. Now if some of the officials in the government are greed in money they can  steal the some of the taxes in the government.

It may not be a theft, a legal one, but the thing that it is seen as a legal and used activity by the people is used by the government so they can cover up some of their illegal activities like corruption. Mostly, governments take some in the tax and use it for themselves.

[BADecker]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

No! it is not a theft, it is legal actually. And it is also written in the Bible that we need to pay taxes. Now if some of the officials in the government are greed in money they can  steal the some of the taxes in the government.

So, a President and a bunch of people in Congress say taxation is legal. I and millions of other people say taxation is not legal. Who is right? Why should a few people in Government make taxation legal, when a bunch of other people say it is not? After all, Government people are simply people. They eat food, breathe air, and do all the same things that we all do. Even the Declaration of Independence says that all people are created equal. Why is their legality better than the legality of a bunch of other people? Why are their words so important and the words of a lot of other people are not?

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If millions of people say that taxation is legal, and millions say that it isn't, what right does one group have over the other? If you want to pay taxes, pay them. But don't force other people to pay if they don't want to.

Look at it the other way. What if you wanted to pay taxes. And what if a bunch of people wouldn't let you because they said that it was legal to not let you pay taxes. Would that be right? No! That is slavery, either way.

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When the Bible says to pay taxes, it isn't as simple as that. Jesus indicated a Roman coin with a picture of Caesar on it and said, "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Never did He say that all the money belonged to Caesar. Never did He even say anything about taxation. He said, "Give." Giving is donation, not taxation. The churches are mixing you up on this one.


Roman's 13 talks about governments and taxation. If you claim allegiance to a government, you have just claimed that the government is your boss. By your own words you are claiming that you are a slave to that government. If you are a willing slave, then obey your master. But the government Romans 13 is telling you to be under is the government of God.

It's the same in a hostage situation. If a bunch of bank robbers take you and a bunch of bank patrons hostage while they try to rob the bank, aren't they temporarily your government? If they have guns, and one of them tells you to go sit in the corner, you have a choice. You can make him your temporary government by obeying him, or you can keep your government to God and face the wrath of being shot dead. Your choice.

Romans 13 didn't directly anticipate governments like those of Canada, the USA, Britain, Australia, Guyana (S.A.), India, and a few others, where the people are over their governments with the jury. In these countries, the government has been given options to tax without taxing the people directly. It is only through treachery that they can tax the people directly.

Romans 13, also, talks about YOUR government. In America, your government is you. The land you own is your land, not the Government's. Government is limited by the Constitution to owning 10 square miles called Washington DC, and certain other lands ceded to them by the States. The only reason they occupy other lands in the States is because people haven't taken government people to jury trial about it. But this is changing. See https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/217003-2017-04-26-conspiracy-convictions-in-bundy-standoff-not-a-one.htm.

In America, Government only has authority in the ways that are specifically stated in Government paperwork. That authority is only over the Government. If people don't want to do a jury trial every time that government tells them something, that is up to the people. Why? Because in America, Government people are still only people, and it is never the Government telling anything to anybody. It is always Government PEOPLE telling it to them. So, if you pay the IRS tax in America, you are doing it by becoming hostages in a hostage situation.

Romans 13 is essentially talking about 3 things:
1. God as your government;
2. Voluntary government;
3. Hostage situations.
In these things pay taxes, the tithe to God if He demands it from you, and whatever your #2 and #3 governments demand. If you don't want to pay taxes to a government, get out of that government if you are in it. BTW, In America, you are not in the government if you are simply on your own property.

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In Canada, the USA, Britain, Australia, Guyana (S.A.), India, and a few others, you are taxed by being a hostage of government treachery, not because you owe a tax.

[laissezfaire]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

lol so you're saying, if yuuu don't like it, then yu can just geiit ouuuuuttt!

You're the one advocating thievery... you leave.  As much as I can manage, I avoid taxation, and as much as I can manage, I avoid the services that are paid for via taxation.  We are born into this plantations, with rules bestowed upon us by dead tyrants. In the paraphrased words of Lysander Spooner, "I didn't sign shit!"

[laissezfaire]

Most on the economic left start from the assumption that it is all things being equal a bad thing that the state takes our money from us, but hold that this prima facie bad is justified by the public goods which taxation makes possible. Well-meaning [UK] public intellectual Alain de Botton encourages us to think of taxation as charity: we give up what’s ours for the greater good of our society.

You can get the same results by itemizing the things you want done, letting people donate for them, and then giving the benefits to those who donated. This is what a cooperative does.

Cooperatives are voluntary, act like governments, are worker/member supported, are beneficial to all members, and itemize where the money is being spent so that people get what they pay for, but don't get what they do not pay for.

A properly formed cooperative would be the absolute best form of government... no taxes... only purchases.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative for more info.

For example, I heard such idea. That you cannot give alms to the poor. We do not know for what God is punishing this man. Such actions we get involved in divine punishment. Moreover what happens if the money that you will give him he will drink alcohol and kill someone?

I don't understand what you are saying.

In America, there are cooperatives operating right now. They usually use money. But some may not.

In Great Depression times (early 1930s), many cooperatives were formed in America where people worked together and supported each other. There was very little money, so the cooperatives operated without it. If the nation did this today, we could get by without the IRS.

I am familiar with several cooperatives avoiding the Federal Reserve Note.

[BADecker]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

In America, the only reason we pay taxes is in the little line highlighted above. Did you ask them if it was okay for you to post in this forum? or tie your shoes? or drink your coffee? Do they have this all written down in their laws? Perhaps you should start making your own decisions.

[mainpmf]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

In America, the only reason we pay taxes is in the little line highlighted above. Did you ask them if it was okay for you to post in this forum? or tie your shoes? or drink your coffee? Do they have this all written down in their laws? Perhaps you should start making your own decisions.

Actually they do.
Coffee is registered as a legal substance that's why you can drink it.
The forum is legalized by the law on freedom of speech that's why you can write on it.
Same goes for the shoe, you can tie it because tyou got the right to own it

Everything is monitored by the government, that's what governments are made for ^^

[Eternu]

I do not thing it is theft. Why i do not consider it theft, well because you live in some country that needs to protect you. To protect your own property and stuff. And for that country needs money, so we pay a little sum for protection of our country. Also we need rules, and country provide that too. Imagine what would happen if it was every man for him self... yes its not fun

Making people pay for protection is called extorting. Gangsters thought about it long time ago.
How would you react if I came to you and told you I'll protect you for cash and if you don't pay I'll take your home and put you in jail? Would you feel bullied?

Rules... you pay for them to be established and then get screwed by them.
Example? Your taxes are funding the police, you oppose a newly established policy, go to a protest and get beaten by the police, sprayed with gas and shot with rubber bullets. Did you just pay someone to beat you up?

There are problems in our world and i do not want to argue about that. To say that some country is same as Gangsters... well i do not think that is the same. You can not put frogs and rabbits in the same basket, and say they are the same, they both jump with there legs. In one country, if its normal by EU standards, there are overall rules that you must follow, and with gangster there is only his rule, and what ever you say it will be his decision. That is why we have law. It is not perfect, but i think its still better than gangster state...

[TheCoinGrabber]

Of course everyone wants to keep their money to themselves but there are just things that are better delegated to a larger body. I couldn't hope to produce everything by my self so I buy them instead and for that, there must be quality control and regulation have expenses. If there are no public schools and I'm poor, I wouldn't be able to have my kids educated, so on and so forth.

[BADecker]

Taxation IS theft, due primarily to the lack of choice you get in the matter.  Yes, one may benefit funds that were previously stolen from someone else, but that doesn't make the thievery right in any way.

You could start your own country if you don't want to pay taxes. We supported our leaders to decide for us - what taxes to pay, what services we receive. If you don't like it, change the leaders or go make your own society.

In America, the only reason we pay taxes is in the little line highlighted above. Did you ask them if it was okay for you to post in this forum? or tie your shoes? or drink your coffee? Do they have this all written down in their laws? Perhaps you should start making your own decisions.

Actually they do.
Coffee is registered as a legal substance that's why you can drink it.
The forum is legalized by the law on freedom of speech that's why you can write on it.
Same goes for the shoe, you can tie it because tyou got the right to own it

Everything is monitored by the government, that's what governments are made for ^^

Wrong. You could drink coffee if it was legal or illegal. Government doesn't have anything to do with your coffee drinking.

Actually, there would be free speech if government legalized it or not. No need for Government.

You have the right to use your shoes whether or not Government says anything about it.

Governments monitor and enforce. But who is the government? For example. If you were stronger, personally, than the whole military and all the people in Government, like superman, who would be the Government? Would it be you? Or would it be other Government people?

Governments operate by force. They take away the freedom of people. They steal from people. That is what taxation is... stealing from people.

[mainpmf]

Wrong. You could drink coffee if it was legal or illegal. Government doesn't have anything to do with your coffee drinking.

Actually, there would be free speech if government legalized it or not. No need for Government.

You have the right to use your shoes whether or not Government says anything about it.

Governments monitor and enforce. But who is the government? For example. If you were stronger, personally, than the whole military and all the people in Government, like superman, who would be the Government? Would it be you? Or would it be other Government people?

Governments operate by force. They take away the freedom of people. They steal from people. That is what taxation is... stealing from people.

You're just making my point.

You can do things because government allow you because government is more powerful than you :/

[wolfracer]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.