Is taxation theft?

[freeyourmind]

It is true that the State can't do anything if the people don't want to.
But the state isn't just "paperwork"
The state is the common ground of people. It's what they all more or less agree on.

And I don't see anything wrong with taxes, how do you expect to pay for public services without them? Every "private" service has been proven being objectively worse and more expensive... Look at USA healthcare and education, twice as expensive as French one and largelely worse.

What I think is wrong is that we're not deciding what get expended where. That's wrong I agree

"Public service" isn't always what it seems.  For example, if the public no longer wants a particular service and would rather not fund it, would those public servants gladly get laid off?  Or would they value their own personal job and income over the service they provide?  I live in Canada and as soon as there is a department that is going to get funding cuts, they start picketing and threatening to go on strike.  So keeping a job is priority #1.  That type of public service will tend to acquire lower talent, and offer subpar service.  I'd say private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business.

Healthcare and education in the states is regulated, plus the government provides access to huge amounts of debt.  It is the government that enables colleges and universities to basically require you to take out a mortgage for your education.  If students couldn't access that type of debt, prices would have to fall as a result, as the non affluent population wouldn't be able to afford it.

[riorondon1234]

................ solution found by me ..............:
Private will compete and render services with more talented and completed effects!.
Public (social-state-national) will stall and give minimum required services to citizens!.
Provident (divine providence in experience fund with a zillion dollars) will complement to!.
................................
Paid to live! Fulcrum salary of $10K/y for each individual born! All taxes paid in advance on 01.01. of a year!
.................................
I think we can control inflation!. If it goes up then we press it down! And Vice Versa!.
If, say, an institution can not do something, that could be done by the charismation!.
We can unite the world (mainly) in 4D: Disaster, Domination, Dialog and Divination!.
For last 20 years I am developing a paradigm: "Divine Universalism"! Are we ready?.
.....................................
Muslim Islam, Christian Capitalism, Communist Socialism, Divine Universalism .... !?!

[gondes21]

Tax is about funding community.
If tax is efficiently and meet the need then, there is no problem. Means tax is balance.
However, if tax is used for unimportant thing and even misused, then there is the problem.
You need other people to live. So, don't be greedy.

[mainpmf]

"Public service" isn't always what it seems.  For example, if the public no longer wants a particular service and would rather not fund it, would those public servants gladly get laid off?  Or would they value their own personal job and income over the service they provide?  I live in Canada and as soon as there is a department that is going to get funding cuts, they start picketing and threatening to go on strike.  So keeping a job is priority #1.  That type of public service will tend to acquire lower talent, and offer subpar service.  I'd say private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business.

Healthcare and education in the states is regulated, plus the government provides access to huge amounts of debt.  It is the government that enables colleges and universities to basically require you to take out a mortgage for your education.  If students couldn't access that type of debt, prices would have to fall as a result, as the non affluent population wouldn't be able to afford it.

LOL! The lamiest argument ever!!! "It's not the fault of private companies if they set the price 1000 times too high it's because the government allows so" xD
So it means government should regulate everything? That's communism for you!

And what you say about public services is stupid. Why chose? Why not both?
Their should be a national public service for everything that is remotely needed by people (energies, banks, food...) but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be place for private companies. I'd love to see an example of a better private companies than a public one because the argument of "private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business." is completely stupid and USA is here for proof.

But whatever, if that's true then you'll have both public AND private, what's the problem at having both? If private is so good then public will go down.

[Sithara007]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

[Sithara007]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

[JefLiber]

And indeed the topic of taxes is very acute in society, regardless of the country in which people live. The last government that has climbed in our country and the Parliament are doing everything recently in order to come up with more and more stringent new taxes. To be honest, I'm no longer sure that my property is really mine.

[Abu Babu Bubabu]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

There is nothing wrong with anybody, including police, carrying weapons defensively.

There is a problem when there is little or no accountability for a group such as the police.

There is a very big problem still with random attacks by police officers on individuals, whether using their police 'powers' or their police 'weapons' or other things. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/fbi-xi-xiaoxing.html

[riorondon1234]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

There is nothing wrong with anybody, including police, carrying weapons defensively.

There is a problem when there is little or no accountability for a group such as the police.

There is a very big problem still with random attacks by police officers on individuals, whether using their police 'powers' or their police 'weapons' or other things. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/fbi-xi-xiaoxing.html

yes ... this coincide with my dispute with almost all sites online with chats .... i am banned 2000 times on 200 chats (about)
... they could ignore me every time ... but they preferred to ban me .... can I ignore them? ... no way .. dominators are mods and admins
so, we need recourse as you say "accountability" of polices and other powers ..... as solution i see our future people-providential system (paradigm-arrangement) Divine Universalism ...! ... users to become divinators

[Basmic]

And indeed the topic of taxes is very acute in society, regardless of the country in which people live. The last government that has climbed in our country and the Parliament are doing everything recently in order to come up with more and more stringent new taxes. To be honest, I'm no longer sure that my property is really mine.

Of course the subject of taxes is of concern to all people because no one wants to part with their money especially when they spend for what is unknown. For this reason, in democratic countries do not endure the issues of paying taxes to a referendum.

[pipoinzaghi]

It surely is legalised theft for a part. Not all of the taxes are theft but some forms of really are

[Basmic]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

You say that because you know that you don't have to pay 90% of their income. I have no desire to pay even 45%. And if you're generous you can volunteer to pay 90% of their income to charity. There are no cops.

[freeyourmind]

"Public service" isn't always what it seems.  For example, if the public no longer wants a particular service and would rather not fund it, would those public servants gladly get laid off?  Or would they value their own personal job and income over the service they provide?  I live in Canada and as soon as there is a department that is going to get funding cuts, they start picketing and threatening to go on strike.  So keeping a job is priority #1.  That type of public service will tend to acquire lower talent, and offer subpar service.  I'd say private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business.

Healthcare and education in the states is regulated, plus the government provides access to huge amounts of debt.  It is the government that enables colleges and universities to basically require you to take out a mortgage for your education.  If students couldn't access that type of debt, prices would have to fall as a result, as the non affluent population wouldn't be able to afford it.

LOL! The lamiest argument ever!!! "It's not the fault of private companies if they set the price 1000 times too high it's because the government allows so" xD
So it means government should regulate everything? That's communism for you!

And what you say about public services is stupid. Why chose? Why not both?
Their should be a national public service for everything that is remotely needed by people (energies, banks, food...) but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be place for private companies. I'd love to see an example of a better private companies than a public one because the argument of "private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business." is completely stupid and USA is here for proof.

But whatever, if that's true then you'll have both public AND private, what's the problem at having both? If private is so good then public will go down.

I'm not sure you understood what I said, but quick to call others stupid.  Obvious sign of a good dude
I'm not saying anything has fault...nor am I blaming private or public companies.  The marketplace dictates what the price of something will be based on simple supply and demand.  Now the government can manipulate that based on decreasing or increasing supply or demand.  Giving access to debt allows the price to increase and still have demand.  Many are not price sensitive when it comes to education.

You think public service in the USA is better than private?  I don't think many would agree with you.  Do you enjoy the customer experience of being in the DMV?  The public organization with no legal competition.  The monopolized public service.  It's a terrible customer experience, and the tax payers are forced to do business with them.  You can't go anywhere else to get a licence.

I don't think "private" or "public" businesses are bad.  It depends on how they're implemented and executed.  Our current public service is inefficient and has a poor level of service for the cost.  I don't think many would disagree (I live in Canada, but I'd say this for North America in general).  If the government hired passionate and interested people only, and minimized corruption and special interests, it could absolutely be great.  But it's not that way right now.

[freeyourmind]

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

Police only "bully" citizens because of drug prohibition.  Before that police was seen similarly to firemen...helpful folks that are keeping a place safe.  Once drug prohibition started, the monetary reward for corruption and opportunity to profile people came about.  Around that same time, people started feeling less safe in the presence of the police.  Look at the police in Portugal, where are drugs are criminalized.  They're cool.

[Sithara007]

You say that because you know that you don't have to pay 90% of their income. I have no desire to pay even 45%. And if you're generous you can volunteer to pay 90% of their income to charity. There are no cops.

90% tax rate is insane. If that much tax is levied, then what will be left with the individual? Reminds me of the insane rates which were prevalent in India during the 1970s and the 1980s.

[Quietman]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

[mainpmf]

I'm not sure you understood what I said, but quick to call others stupid.  Obvious sign of a good dude
I'm not saying anything has fault...nor am I blaming private or public companies.

I'm not good. I'm an angry disgusted individual, obviously I won't pay any respect to systems, corporations and individuals that have enslaved my kind for centuries (not talking abou white vs blacks here)

The marketplace dictates what the price of something will be based on simple supply and demand. Now the government can manipulate that based on decreasing or increasing supply or demand.  Giving access to debt allows the price to increase and still have demand.  Many are not price sensitive when it comes to education.

Yeah or by regulating price itself. Government can say "ok now a college tuition can't go higher than 2000$"

You think public service in the USA is better than private?  I don't think many would agree with you.  Do you enjoy the customer experience of being in the DMV?  The public organization with no legal competition.  The monopolized public service.  It's a terrible customer experience, and the tax payers are forced to do business with them.  You can't go anywhere else to get a licence.

I don't see your point, I just talked about co existing private and public...

I don't think "private" or "public" businesses are bad.  It depends on how they're implemented and executed.  Our current public service is inefficient and has a poor level of service for the cost.  I don't think many would disagree (I live in Canada, but I'd say this for North America in general).  If the government hired passionate and interested people only, and minimized corruption and special interests, it could absolutely be great.  But it's not that way right now.

Arf, if you think public healthcare is bad in Canada go look at the one in USA...

I'll make an easy comparison for you:
Healthcare industry is 5% of wealth production in France
It's 12% in USA
Guess who's more efficient here? Private or public?

[BADecker]

The easiest way to see that taxation is theft, is to realize that theft is taxation as well.

[freeyourmind]

I'm not sure you understood what I said, but quick to call others stupid.  Obvious sign of a good dude
I'm not saying anything has fault...nor am I blaming private or public companies.

I'm not good. I'm an angry disgusted individual, obviously I won't pay any respect to systems, corporations and individuals that have enslaved my kind for centuries (not talking abou white vs blacks here)

The marketplace dictates what the price of something will be based on simple supply and demand. Now the government can manipulate that based on decreasing or increasing supply or demand.  Giving access to debt allows the price to increase and still have demand.  Many are not price sensitive when it comes to education.

Yeah or by regulating price itself. Government can say "ok now a college tuition can't go higher than 2000$"

You think public service in the USA is better than private?  I don't think many would agree with you.  Do you enjoy the customer experience of being in the DMV?  The public organization with no legal competition.  The monopolized public service.  It's a terrible customer experience, and the tax payers are forced to do business with them.  You can't go anywhere else to get a licence.

I don't see your point, I just talked about co existing private and public...

I don't think "private" or "public" businesses are bad.  It depends on how they're implemented and executed.  Our current public service is inefficient and has a poor level of service for the cost.  I don't think many would disagree (I live in Canada, but I'd say this for North America in general).  If the government hired passionate and interested people only, and minimized corruption and special interests, it could absolutely be great.  But it's not that way right now.

Arf, if you think public healthcare is bad in Canada go look at the one in USA...

I'll make an easy comparison for you:
Healthcare industry is 5% of wealth production in France
It's 12% in USA
Guess who's more efficient here? Private or public?

I have nothing against your opinion of government or the system.  What kind of slavery do you speak of? 

Prices can be regulated possibly, but the more common approach is to leave the price as it is and "subsidize" the cost for the buyer.  So prices will remain high, but a portion of our taxes would go towards the payment.  They can manipulate it either way really.

The point was that you said to give an example where private companies offer better service than public, and I gave an example of pathetic public service.  You wouldn't get that with a private company because you can simply choose not to do business with them ever again.  Eventually if everyone shared that sentiment, they'd have to improve their service or eventually go out of business.

I never said the health care in Canada is bad.  It's okay, but it is expensive and takes up a large chunk of our taxes.  But I know of wealthier folks that need serious medical attention fly over to the states to get their procedures done.

I'm not sure where you got the France vs. USA healthcare dollars from, but let's assume it's accurate.  You realize that the USA has a reactive healthcare system right?  And that the USA has by far the most unhealthy population in the world, which would require more reactive health care??
The reason it has a high dollar amount is because of the # of customers (unhealthy people requiring medical attention).  Europe in general is much more health conscious and eats more whole foods/less processed foods.  Finland for example has chef's in schools that teach kids about cooking and eating healthy.  I grew up with a cafeteria that sold burgers, pizza and fries, a McDonalds next to our high school and a vending machine that only sold pop/soda.  Why would we be as healthy as France?  Unless you take your health into your own hands, educate yourself on diet and have routine physical activity, the default is to eat garbage and get obese...and look at who has the most obese population in the world.

[Eternu]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

Tax is good,

The Governments use taxation to encourage or discourage certain economic issues and decision.

The more people pay taxes the results are greater construction activities of infrastructure such as schools, roads, hospitals and other public facilities and also generates more jobs.

Yes i agree, and i would say that you are totally right about that. Because if governments did not exist, it would be every city for them self, and that would turn in all out war. Maybe even to some kind of monarchy, where there would be one man to lead, and in that case its same. There is no possible way of living without country, i mean there would not be safe way.