Is taxation theft?

[BADecker]

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

In America, if you know English very well, you can sneak into the country and live unmolested. You don't even need a business license or SSN to start a simple, humble yard care business. If you have wealth, you can live off that wealth without getting any new banking - credit/debit card from whatever other land. You can drive on an international drivers license, but if you drive carefully, nobody cares.

Is this the same in other countries?

[PeterTheGrape]

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

Ideally, and what most people with a good education hope for, is a country that is minimally intrusive.

You are right that Americans have enjoyed some benefits abroad that are denied people in other countries. Likewise, a soldier can say he enjoys the benefit of commiting rapes, or a bank executive can say he enjoys the benefit of having secret information about business that allows extra profit. Always putting one person up and another down, you will find that the one who is up will accept the benefits and ignore the one who is down, or find a means to justify it.

Groups, nations, are best built on consensus. Agreement is informal but everybody knows the facts. This degrades into a false consensus built on political laws, clever 'leaders' etc, until finally you have not a group built on consensus, but a gang of people who encourage predation and which draws predatory types to enjoy membership in the gang. 

[BADecker]

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

Ideally, and what most people with a good education hope for, is a country that is minimally intrusive.

You are right that Americans have enjoyed some benefits abroad that are denied people in other countries. Likewise, a soldier can say he enjoys the benefit of commiting rapes, or a bank executive can say he enjoys the benefit of having secret information about business that allows extra profit. Always putting one person up and another down, you will find that the one who is up will accept the benefits and ignore the one who is down, or find a means to justify it.

Groups, nations, are best built on consensus. Agreement is informal but everybody knows the facts. This degrades into a false consensus built on political laws, clever 'leaders' etc, until finally you have not a group built on consensus, but a gang of people who encourage predation and which draws predatory types to enjoy membership in the gang. 

But when someone formally states that he is not part of the ocnsensus, what then? Execute him for not being one of the group? What about freedom?

[darkangel11]

...
In your example there is one error. When he collected money from all and built a powerhouse that everyone who gave money for its construction must receive electricity for free. In our life we sell electricity. It turns out we're paying twice. And the income goes into someone else's pocket.

Only if you're taking it literally. This doesn't have to be a power plant, but a bus service that will take their kids to school every day, a teacher that will teach these kids in a classroom, which is much cheaper than private tutoring, street lamps, pavements, emergency services... All those things are provided and maintained with taxes.

But the question isn't really about 0.0001% of taxes spent on streetlights, it is about the high percentage spent on 'defense', housing marijuana smokers and the mentally ill in prisons, etc.

The solution is a crypto based economy that involves consensus spending, with smarter people individually having an edge to insert occasional checks and balances, rather than gangs of power crazy bureaucrats running amok.

The trillions wasted on nonsense could easily be diverted or redirected to science and space programs that would solve a lot of problems at once. The price would be shifted to mass casualties that would be involved in a space program. A better path.

The concept of taxes existed for centuries and is good. These lights, roads and bridges unfortunately come from the same source - your pocket. Sure we'd all like it to be spent on stuff we need like medical research, but that's a different thing. Some countries like the USA are leaders in wasting money on arms, and some are not, it depends on the government.

[PeterTheGrape]

...

But when someone formally states that he is not part of the ocnsensus, what then? Execute him for not being one of the group? What about freedom?

There is no consensus in gang force, so it is irrelevant.

If government ever returns to its proper function of allowing consensus projects, then you can ask your question.

[Elwar]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

[PeterTheGrape]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

[BADecker]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Home schooling and 100% toll roads.

Without tax, people could afford to let the wife/husband stay home and school the kids

Rights of way have been built into law for thousands of years, one way or another. Get your stupid highway off the rights of way so that people don't have to use them to get from point A to point B.

Let people buy what they want. Don't force them to pay for something they don't want.

[Elwar]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I wanted free education for all. Yes. I would also love some high technology smart roads that charge our cars as we drive and navigate for us. Free cars for everyone would be great too.

But that does not negate the fact that the government is taking peoples' money without their consent. Let's address this morally outdated approach of funding things first. Then figure out all of the free stuff we both want people to have.

[PeterTheGrape]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Home schooling and 100% toll roads.

Without tax, people could afford to let the wife/husband stay home and school the kids

Rights of way have been built into law for thousands of years, one way or another. Get your stupid highway off the rights of way so that people don't have to use them to get from point A to point B.

Let people buy what they want. Don't force them to pay for something they don't want.

1) Toll roads won't get built.

2) Bad as "fiat" might be, if it didn't exist you wouldn't have a computer. Fiat is from the same gangsters who bring you wars. So, some good, some bad, "baby with bathwater" situation.

3) If you enjoy pesticide laced apples, and you visit a natural orchard and eat some apples mixed with worms, what is the lesson? Don't eat apples? No. Pesticide apples are good? No. You have to have some discrimination and separate the useful from the harmful.

[PeterTheGrape]

...

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I wanted free education for all. Yes. I would also love some high technology smart roads that charge our cars as we drive and navigate for us. Free cars for everyone would be great too.

But that does not negate the fact that the government is taking peoples' money without their consent. Let's address this morally outdated approach of funding things first. Then figure out all of the free stuff we both want people to have.

1) Some gangster cancer scum in government have toxified the whole situation, that is true.

2) Free education is nice, so is good education. You need some kind of structure or else less than 1% of people are going to educate their children. So are bands of guys with guns, like the taliban going to educate children, without government. Afghanistan tried that and they also eliminated drug use, prevented soldiers from having sex with little boys, made adultery a crime etc, so we went in, under govt guidance, and restored all those things. Not sure what the lesson is there.

3) Funding could be done very well with crypto. A health and human services coin, use it if you want schools. A defense coin, use it if you want to spend all your nation's wealth flying 20 year olds around to kill people who have no idea why we want to kill them. A road coin that your smart car can use to pay tolls etc. 

[Elwar]

3) Funding could be done very well with crypto. A health and human services coin, use it if you want schools. A defense coin, use it if you want to spend all your nation's wealth flying 20 year olds around to kill people who have no idea why we want to kill them. A road coin that your smart car can use to pay tolls etc. 

And you are just one person thinking of better ways of funding things. Imagine if government stopped taking money without consent and many solutions could be put forth from thousands of great minds.

[BADecker]

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Home schooling and 100% toll roads.

Without tax, people could afford to let the wife/husband stay home and school the kids

Rights of way have been built into law for thousands of years, one way or another. Get your stupid highway off the rights of way so that people don't have to use them to get from point A to point B.

Let people buy what they want. Don't force them to pay for something they don't want.

1) Toll roads won't get built.

2) Bad as "fiat" might be, if it didn't exist you wouldn't have a computer. Fiat is from the same gangsters who bring you wars. So, some good, some bad, "baby with bathwater" situation.

3) If you enjoy pesticide laced apples, and you visit a natural orchard and eat some apples mixed with worms, what is the lesson? Don't eat apples? No. Pesticide apples are good? No. You have to have some discrimination and separate the useful from the harmful.

1. Better toll roads will get built.

2. Gold and silver by weight as money would make computers far better than what exists.

3. Grow your own apples. Unite with others to put down harm done by industry and industrial waste... volutrily, and get the job done.

[Tuyok]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

[dimatu]

It depends on the country, in corrupt countries taxation is most definitely theft but in most westernized developped countries its the cost of keeping the country alive and the alternative is chaos. Taxation is a necessity to have a stable country and anyone that suggests otherwise is living in a dream reality.

[Elwar]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

If a thief steals your wallet then gives the money to his sick mother...is it still theft?

[PeterTheGrape]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

If a thief steals your wallet then gives the money to his sick mother...is it still theft?

If a thief steals your wallet then uses the money to buy guns to kill people are you party to murder because you allowed the theft?

[Okurkabinladin]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

If a thief steals your wallet then gives the money to his sick mother...is it still theft?

If a thief steals your wallet then uses the money to buy guns to kill people are you party to murder because you allowed the theft?

This is great come back, sir. I salute you.

Elwar, with all due respect. Private property is private property. It can become public property, when YOU and YOU alone gave your God given rights away for the benefit of all. Not because some unelected commie fuck decides, that his friends needs your property more than you do.

Sometimes, I just know, that you westerners lead incredibly sheltered lifes, otherwise you would be far more prudent about the way you handle gifts.

[PeterTheGrape]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

If a thief steals your wallet then gives the money to his sick mother...is it still theft?

If a thief steals your wallet then uses the money to buy guns to kill people are you party to murder because you allowed the theft?

This is great come back, sir. I salute you.

Elwar, with all due respect. Private property is private property. It can become public property, when YOU and YOU alone gave your God given rights away for the benefit of all. Not because some unelected commie fuck decides, that his friends needs your property more than you do.

Sometimes, I just know, that you westerners lead incredibly sheltered lifes, otherwise you would be far more prudent about the way you handle gifts.

If you read back a few posts you'll see Elwar is actually on your side.

[Elwar]

If the tax is not being used to improve a certain country, then it is somehow a theft.

If a thief steals your wallet then gives the money to his sick mother...is it still theft?

If a thief steals your wallet then uses the money to buy guns to kill people are you party to murder because you allowed the theft?

It is still theft.

And yes, you are also somewhat responsible if you know that he will use the money to kill and yet you still allow him to have your money.

That is why I left the US. The first tax day that came along where I paid no income taxes I felt relieved that none of my money went to fund ISIS. And by not holding dollars I was not contributing to the monetary system that allows them to print their war money. It is a very satisfying feeling.