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Author Topic: [MOON] Mooncoin 🌙 49275 funded addresses. 2,135,729 txs. 5 block explorers  (Read 272290 times)
barrysty1e
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January 06, 2018, 08:58:08 PM
 #4381

Sounds weird.
I visited block explorers,
Mooncoin has 5 independent block explorers,
you can see Rich list (top addresses) in block explorers easily.
The biggest address with 62 bil is Vassilis's address with Cryptsy coins, we know already that.
I see many other OLD addresses with coins in top 25,
but I don't see 120 bil more coins on new addresses.
Though when there are price movements, coins change their owners fast, so if you mean transactions with small addresses, it's quite normal.
Usually when a price is rising a big percent of supply is changing their owners during just 24 hours, people go to exchange and sell, other buy.
So for now I don't see anything new.
We know that about 80 bil Cryptsy coins were blocked, 62 bil were sent to Vassilis, he was going to burn it,
it's not legal to spend them etc.
They have their legitimate users and these users who had lost more than 60 % of these coins already agreed to burn them, for the bright Mooncoin future.

P.S. spending coins of other people is not legal, even if it's not fiat. Make a research, and you'll see, already there are many cases with BTC and other coins. But if the community burns its own coins, for the future of MOON, it's not this case.

my apologies, after triple-checking.. the full figure appears to be closer to 90.
the giveaway for most of these transactions is they look like theyve been moved around with a script.
i think that burning the coins is definitely the best way forward; while it would be more satisfying to return them to the owners, this would prove a logistical nightmare, in the case of proving it - and being able to guarantee the forbidtx code would not cause hassles in the future.

however a public burn would instantly reduce the marketcap/circulation; perhaps some people would take reassurance in the fact that it was a lingering problem that is now over once unspendable.
however - i think we will wait for Vassilis to comment as i think we've scared him (not deliberately of course).

i'm currently running the txindex'd chain through a piece of chain mapping software; and i hope to be able to put the results up in public.

james

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January 06, 2018, 09:00:39 PM
 #4382

OK, My first post and have a few noob questions and thoughts about this huge supply of Cryptsy coins that landed on Vassilis's wallet.

If the coins are burned, will it decrease the total supply permanently? If that is the case then how is it helpful? I guess the only good thing is, it will have a positive impact on price of Mooncoin as a short term effect.  

From my understanding of previous posts, It is illegal to spend these coins on Vassilis's wallet for further development of Mooncoin in any form or launching new features and projects.

But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?

What if an Virtual NGO (non-profit organization) is formed by Vassilis or a custodian/custodians, who Vassilis hands over/donates the aforementioned mooncoin after formation of the VNGO (assuming he does want want the hassle of dealing with it), who will only spend the coins for further/future development of the Mooncoin and projects/promotions relating to it. Will it be illegal to use those coins then?

As I am not an expert, but if indeed coins burned, permanently decreases the total supply of coins, then it is a big loss. If you think this crypto will survive 50/100 years or more, or evolve into something else in future.

We need an expert opinion from a lawyer, before we do anything drastic like decrease total supply.

This is just my own thoughts and sorry about my English as its not my first language Smiley  
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January 06, 2018, 09:11:32 PM
 #4383

Hey anyone know what's up with the CoinExchange wallet? It's been in maintenance since this AM (possibly before, but I first noticed it this morning). Just curious if someone has an idea what's going on with it. Coin or Exchange issue. Thanks for the info.

Also since I am posting, I figured I'd throw out how impressed I am with the community and specifically the devs (both past and present). Not only has the community persevered and revived its' enthusiasm, but the honesty and composure that it's leaders have shown the last few days is to absolutely be commended. Thank you for your continued hard work. Regarding the locked up funds, has there been any thought to putting them into a multi-sig wallet and randomly choose a handful of people from the community that can safeguard them and to use as others have suggested; i.e. marketing, further dev, promotion, philanthropy, etc? I'd also support escrowing funds for the dev team that can be used to incentivize certain milestones being reached that benefit the overall community. Just some random thoughts......
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January 06, 2018, 09:24:27 PM
 #4384

Guys, I apologize for the stupid question Cheesy But I just wanted to insure myself. I have mooncoin address that was generated last summer(or early autumn), I sent my coins on that adress same time. The question is - do I need to send them on new address or I can keep the things as is? Smiley

That only depends on you.
If your address was generated safely, and no one else knows its private key, you can reuse it.

 
Sounds weird.
I visited block explorers,
Mooncoin has 5 independent block explorers,
you can see Rich list (top addresses) in block explorers easily.
The biggest address with 62 bil is Vassilis's address with Cryptsy coins, we know already that.
I see many other OLD addresses with coins in top 25,
but I don't see 120 bil more coins on new addresses.
Though when there are price movements, coins change their owners fast, so if you mean transactions with small addresses, it's quite normal.
Usually when a price is rising a big percent of supply is changing their owners during just 24 hours, people go to exchange and sell, other buy.
So for now I don't see anything new.
We know that about 80 bil Cryptsy coins were blocked, 62 bil were sent to Vassilis, he was going to burn it,
it's not legal to spend them etc.
They have their legitimate users and these users who had lost more than 60 % of these coins already agreed to burn them, for the bright Mooncoin future.

P.S. spending coins of other people is not legal, even if it's not fiat. Make a research, and you'll see, already there are many cases with BTC and other coins. But if the community burns its own coins, for the future of MOON, it's not this case.

my apologies, after triple-checking.. the full figure appears to be closer to 90.
the giveaway for most of these transactions is they look like theyve been moved around with a script.
i think that burning the coins is definitely the best way forward; while it would be more satisfying to return them to the owners, this would prove a logistical nightmare, in the case of proving it - and being able to guarantee the forbidtx code would not cause hassles in the future.

however a public burn would instantly reduce the marketcap/circulation; perhaps some people would take reassurance in the fact that it was a lingering problem that is now over once unspendable.
however - i think we will wait for Vassilis to comment as i think we've scared him (not deliberately of course).

i'm currently running the txindex'd chain through a piece of chain mapping software; and i hope to be able to put the results up in public.

james


About 80-90 bil including 62 bil really could be Cryptsy derived coins. Coinflow mentioned 17 bil more that were probably spent already.
Vassilis told earlier he contacted exchanges about other coins.

Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
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January 06, 2018, 09:28:38 PM
 #4385

Has anyone been able to move Moon from Coinexchange to anywhere else?  Wallet constantly in mainteneance
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January 06, 2018, 09:32:26 PM
 #4386

Has anyone been able to move Moon from Coinexchange to anywhere else?  Wallet constantly in mainteneance

Good afternoon. If a wallet in any exchange is in maintenance status, then you can't withdraw coins from it. Just wait the completion and try when it is online. It's simple. Smiley

Mooncoin_Foundation
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January 06, 2018, 09:44:47 PM
 #4387


But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?


The point is these coins were already blocked in the official wallet. The community (legitimate owners of these coins from Cryptsy) agreed to make these coins unspendable after the block 1,100,000 in March, 2017. Investors were investing in MOON taking into account that these coins are unspendable.
For whatever reason, after Vassilis joined Mooncoin development (about a month ago) the protection was hacked.
So it was not just a donation of coins, it was hacking of protection and moving a major part of coins which belong to users who agreed to block them earlier - to a public address of Vassilis. After that major owners of these coins told Vassilis that they would prefer to burn these coins.
We don't know how the protection was hacked and why it happened only after Vassilis made a new release of wallet. We cannot exclude that some mistakes could be done by him during coding that made a protection less effective. Anyways now he has a good chance to prove that he is an honest and fair dev.
My suggestion is to burn coins, and not to send them to any other address, different from a confirmed burn address, or it would lead to more suspicions.
 

Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
coinflow
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January 06, 2018, 09:56:46 PM
 #4388


But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?


The point is these coins were already blocked in the official wallet. The community (legitimate owners of these coins from Cryptsy) agreed to make these coins unspendable after the block 1,100,000 in March, 2017. Investors were investing in MOON taking into account that these coins are unspendable.
For whatever reason, after Vassilis joined Mooncoin development (about a month ago) the protection was hacked.
So it was not just a donation of coins, it was hacking of protection and moving a major part of coins which belong to users who agreed to block them earlier - to a public address of Vassilis. After that major owners of these coins told Vassilis that they would prefer to burn these coins.
We don't know how the protection was hacked and why it happened only after Vassilis made a new release of wallet. We cannot exclude that some mistakes could be done by him during coding that made a protection less effective. Anyways now he has a good chance to prove that he is an honest and fair dev.
My suggestion is to burn coins, and not to send them to any other address, different from a confirmed burn address, or it would lead to more suspicions.
 

Where can we see, how the 60% voted for the burning and how it is verified, that these 60% are the legitimate owners of the original Cryptsy-coins?

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January 06, 2018, 10:02:41 PM
 #4389

OK, My first post and have a few noob questions and thoughts about this huge supply of Cryptsy coins that landed on Vassilis's wallet.

If the coins are burned, will it decrease the total supply permanently? If that is the case then how is it helpful? I guess the only good thing is, it will have a positive impact on price of Mooncoin as a short term effect.  

From my understanding of previous posts, It is illegal to spend these coins on Vassilis's wallet for further development of Mooncoin in any form or launching new features and projects.

But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?

What if an Virtual NGO (non-profit organization) is formed by Vassilis or a custodian/custodians, who Vassilis hands over/donates the aforementioned mooncoin after formation of the VNGO (assuming he does want want the hassle of dealing with it), who will only spend the coins for further/future development of the Mooncoin and projects/promotions relating to it. Will it be illegal to use those coins then?

As I am not an expert, but if indeed coins burned, permanently decreases the total supply of coins, then it is a big loss. If you think this crypto will survive 50/100 years or more, or evolve into something else in future.

We need an expert opinion from a lawyer, before we do anything drastic like decrease total supply.

This is just my own thoughts and sorry about my English as its not my first language Smiley  

This is an important posting with many good questions and should be handled and discussed wisely.

Edit:
Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

barrysty1e
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January 06, 2018, 10:12:45 PM
 #4390

the law aspect should be considered, however just diving into the technical:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adamkrellenstein/unspendable/master/unspendable.py is a good clean written method, which contains in it doublesha and the checksumming component. adaption for mooncoin is limited to lines 67 and 68, which need to be changed to:


Code:
   elif network == 'mainnet':
        prefix_string = '2'
        prefix_bytes = b'\x03'
    else:

root@vault:~# python unspendable.py bazonthemooonwithabroomvsoon
('mainnet:', '2bazonthemooonwithabroomvsoojpRhqB')

perhaps a phrase can be randomly selected?

james

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Mooncoin_Foundation
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January 06, 2018, 10:21:06 PM
 #4391


But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?


The point is these coins were already blocked in the official wallet. The community (legitimate owners of these coins from Cryptsy) agreed to make these coins unspendable after the block 1,100,000 in March, 2017. Investors were investing in MOON taking into account that these coins are unspendable.
For whatever reason, after Vassilis joined Mooncoin development (about a month ago) the protection was hacked.
So it was not just a donation of coins, it was hacking of protection and moving a major part of coins which belong to users who agreed to block them earlier - to a public address of Vassilis. After that major owners of these coins told Vassilis that they would prefer to burn these coins.
We don't know how the protection was hacked and why it happened only after Vassilis made a new release of wallet. We cannot exclude that some mistakes could be done by him during coding that made a protection less effective. Anyways now he has a good chance to prove that he is an honest and fair dev.
My suggestion is to burn coins, and not to send them to any other address, different from a confirmed burn address, or it would lead to more suspicions.
 

Where can we see, how the 60% voted for the burning and how it is verified, that these 60% are the legitimate owners of the original Cryptsy-coins?

Everything was already discussed before the block 1,100,000 when these coins were frozen.
PM agswinner, he very likely will send you a proof.
You will agree, it's not correct , to ask people to disclosure their personal info and how many coins each of them had lost at Cryptsy - publicly.


Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
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January 06, 2018, 10:35:03 PM
 #4392


But, is it illegal as they were send to him without his prior knowledge? As this kind of act seems to be a donation of sort. For example, if someone robs a bank with no connection to me and next morning i check my bank account and I see a huge balance in my account as for what ever reason he decided to donate that amount to me because I do help my community anyway I can? So, will it fall under donation money/commodity category and will it be illegal if I use that donation money for the community?


The point is these coins were already blocked in the official wallet. The community (legitimate owners of these coins from Cryptsy) agreed to make these coins unspendable after the block 1,100,000 in March, 2017. Investors were investing in MOON taking into account that these coins are unspendable.
For whatever reason, after Vassilis joined Mooncoin development (about a month ago) the protection was hacked.
So it was not just a donation of coins, it was hacking of protection and moving a major part of coins which belong to users who agreed to block them earlier - to a public address of Vassilis. After that major owners of these coins told Vassilis that they would prefer to burn these coins.
We don't know how the protection was hacked and why it happened only after Vassilis made a new release of wallet. We cannot exclude that some mistakes could be done by him during coding that made a protection less effective. Anyways now he has a good chance to prove that he is an honest and fair dev.
My suggestion is to burn coins, and not to send them to any other address, different from a confirmed burn address, or it would lead to more suspicions.
 

Where can we see, how the 60% voted for the burning and how it is verified, that these 60% are the legitimate owners of the original Cryptsy-coins?

Everything was already discussed before the block 1,100,000 when these coins were frozen.
PM agswinner, he very likely will send you a proof.
You will agree, it's not correct , to ask people to disclosure their personal info and how many coins each of them had lost at Cryptsy - publicly.



Now it is a new situation. The coins were released from the thief. So everything has to be reconsidered.
As much as I agree to not disclosure any personal info, you'll agree, that this has to be handled as transparent as possible. A qualified lawyer could help, finding a way to deal with it.

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January 06, 2018, 10:46:09 PM
 #4393


Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

This qualified lawyer should be also a crypto expert and understand the nature of decentralised projects. In fact there is a lack of laws in this field yet.
Anyway if rightful owners want to burn coins, it's quite simple and fair. Or we can discuss it for years and while we are discussing, coins could be stolen again.
Better really burn them asap.

Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
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January 06, 2018, 10:56:13 PM
 #4394


Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

This qualified lawyer should be also a crypto expert and understand the nature of decentralised projects. In fact there is a lack of laws in this field yet.
Anyway if rightful owners want to burn coins, it's quite simple and fair. Or we can discuss it for years and while we are discussing, coins could be stolen again.
Better really burn them asap.

Really trying to make this the last message regarding it; we could get in contact with the 'Cryptsy Cryptocurrency Administrator' (email at bottom of http://www.cryptsysettlement.com/) asking their advice; standard 2 weeks to reply, if this time lapses; burn them.

Vassilis? What do you think?

james

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January 06, 2018, 11:01:14 PM
 #4395


Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

This qualified lawyer should be also a crypto expert and understand the nature of decentralised projects. In fact there is a lack of laws in this field yet.
Anyway if rightful owners want to burn coins, it's quite simple and fair. Or we can discuss it for years and while we are discussing, coins could be stolen again.
Better really burn them asap.

Really trying to make this the last message regarding it; we could get in contact with the 'Cryptsy Cryptocurrency Administrator' (email at bottom of http://www.cryptsysettlement.com/) asking their advice; standard 2 weeks to reply, if this time lapses; burn them.

Vassilis? What do you think?

james

for lawyer, maybe you guys can also get in touch with Max Keiser, the journalist, he hosts lots of crypto lawyers on his show, maybe he can forward Vassilis to a proper experienced one.

but for now that wallet should be offline on a system without internet connection. 
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January 06, 2018, 11:08:21 PM
 #4396

I lost 57 million mooncoins from Cryptsy Sad, reallly wish I could get those back.

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January 06, 2018, 11:13:34 PM
 #4397


Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

This qualified lawyer should be also a crypto expert and understand the nature of decentralised projects. In fact there is a lack of laws in this field yet.
Anyway if rightful owners want to burn coins, it's quite simple and fair. Or we can discuss it for years and while we are discussing, coins could be stolen again.
Better really burn them asap.

Really trying to make this the last message regarding it; we could get in contact with the 'Cryptsy Cryptocurrency Administrator' (email at bottom of http://www.cryptsysettlement.com/) asking their advice; standard 2 weeks to reply, if this time lapses; burn them.

Vassilis? What do you think?

james

You will contact them, and they say 'of course, give coins to us'.
But they already received 8 bil and never returned even 1 Mooncoin to its owners.
Instead of that they sold these coins for a small amount of money (about $100,000) on a silent auction to unknown buyers.
They will sell them again, and probably again for a very low price, and then these coins will be dumped on us and we will buy our own coins, is it fair?
And our money will go to all Cryptsy account holders, even if they never owned MOON.

The Florida court is not in the same jurisdiction with Vassilis, so why should he send coins to them?
As coinflow mentioned, there is another situation now, coins were returned to the community.

Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
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January 06, 2018, 11:18:26 PM
 #4398

I lost 57 million mooncoins from Cryptsy Sad, reallly wish I could get those back.

I had lost many more coins at Cryptsy.

But what will be better, say, you have now 20 million coins and their price is 7 Sat.
Or you have 20+57=77 coins and their price is below 1 Sat due to dumping.
Or even worse: if coins go to the court, you have only some miserable compensation in BTC or in USD for that.

But the point is not what we want. The point is what is fair and what is really legal and wise in this situation.
In my opinion, burning coins if majority of their holders agrees with that right now, is legal and fair.

Mooncoin project http://mooncoin.com 45000+ funded addresses 2,000,000+ transactions. Exchanges: Bleutrade-NovaExchange-Coinexchange. Low inflation with gradual reduce.
5 independent block explorers. Record onto blockchain (free and without 3rd parties) MoonWord programming language + the platform written from scratch.
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January 06, 2018, 11:24:54 PM
 #4399


Normally stolen goods are illegal in consequence, if not returned to their rightful owners; so an expert opinion from a qualified lawyer would be a good thing indeed.

This qualified lawyer should be also a crypto expert and understand the nature of decentralised projects. In fact there is a lack of laws in this field yet.
Anyway if rightful owners want to burn coins, it's quite simple and fair. Or we can discuss it for years and while we are discussing, coins could be stolen again.
Better really burn them asap.

Be it cryptocoins or any other goods. The law is the same. If they are stolen, they are illegal goods, as long as they are not returned to the legitimate owner. I'd recommend to ask your lawyer.

And if even one of the legitimate owners does not agree to burn them, which makes them lost forever, it could be that the decision-makers of this could be held liable for the loss of that person afterwards. As said, better ask a qualified lawyer, before making this decision.

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January 06, 2018, 11:26:09 PM
 #4400

I lost 57 million mooncoins from Cryptsy Sad, reallly wish I could get those back.

I had lost many more coins at Cryptsy.

But what will be better, say, you have now 20 million coins and their price is 7 Sat.
Or you have 20+57=77 coins and their price is below 1 Sat due to dumping.
Or even worse: if coins go to the court, you have only some miserable compensation in BTC or in USD for that.

But the point is not what we want. The point is what is fair and what is really legal and wise in this situation.
In my opinion, burning coins if majority of their holders agrees with that right now, is legal and fair.

The point is, what is legal and what is not.

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