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Question: July 28 Closing Price:
<$3,000 - 6 (7.3%)
<$8,000 - 5 (6.1%)
$8,001-$8,500 - 2 (2.4%)
$8,501-$9,000 - 1 (1.2%)
$9,001-$9,500 - 11 (13.4%)
$9,501-$10,000 - 6 (7.3%)
$10,001-$10,500 - 8 (9.8%)
$10,501-$11,000 - 14 (17.1%)
$11,001-$11,500 - 7 (8.5%)
$11,501-$12,000 - 4 (4.9%)
$12,001-$12,500 - 4 (4.9%)
$12,501-$13,000 - 3 (3.7%)
$13,001-$13,500 - 2 (2.4%)
$13,501-$14,000 - 2 (2.4%)
>$14,000 - 3 (3.7%)
>$18,000 - 4 (4.9%)
Total Voters: 82

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21296949 times)
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January 23, 2017, 03:18:40 AM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

Sure, but the very rich never want anything until it is seen as valuable to *other* rich people and unattainable to the masses.  Hence the reason why they'll wait to buy until a bitcoin is worth $500K.

Two examples:

1) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning one of the original Apple computer boards until they go at auction for $1M

2) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning an original Superman #1 comic until they go at auction for $3.2M

For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights.

For the rest of us, it's just about a meager store of value and perhaps some future investment.
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January 23, 2017, 04:20:59 AM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

Sure, but the very rich never want anything until it is seen as valuable to *other* rich people and unattainable to the masses.  Hence the reason why they'll wait to buy until a bitcoin is worth $500K.

Two examples:

1) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning one of the original Apple computer boards until they go at auction for $1M

2) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning an original Superman #1 comic until they go at auction for $3.2M

For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights.

For the rest of us, it's just about a meager store of value and perhaps some future investment.

I agree that the wealthy buy things for rarity, bragging rights etc but not sure its going to happen with bitcoin.
 First there are potentially 21 million other people that have 1 bitcoin - even in reality if it is say 100,000 it is too many to be seen as rare. Also you cannot really "show off' a string of numbers like you can a physical thing eg first edtion comic book. Finally as the $ value climbs in years to come we may start talking more in terms of  1/1000th of a bitcoin as well as many other levels. Give it a 'sexier' working name than bitcoin eg like  "MilleniumCoin" and voila you have a new rarity 
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January 23, 2017, 04:29:52 AM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

Sure, but the very rich never want anything until it is seen as valuable to *other* rich people and unattainable to the masses.  Hence the reason why they'll wait to buy until a bitcoin is worth $500K.

Two examples:

1) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning one of the original Apple computer boards until they go at auction for $1M

2) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning an original Superman #1 comic until they go at auction for $3.2M

For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights.

For the rest of us, it's just about a meager store of value and perhaps some future investment.

Exactly. I didn't see 600watt's comment being aimed at the millionaires and how diverse their investment portfolio should be.

Rather I thought 600watt was pointing out that once Bitcoin does reach a level of recognition & (increasing) value that the multitude of wealthy all decide they want "one" and the value rockets even higher... where does that leave those of us that invested now and held on for the ride? Wink
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January 23, 2017, 06:11:51 AM
Last edit: January 23, 2017, 07:03:30 AM by JayJuanGee

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

Sure, but the very rich never want anything until it is seen as valuable to *other* rich people and unattainable to the masses.  Hence the reason why they'll wait to buy until a bitcoin is worth $500K.

Two examples:

1) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning one of the original Apple computer boards until they go at auction for $1M

2) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning an original Superman #1 comic until they go at auction for $3.2M

For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights.

For the rest of us, it's just about a meager store of value and perhaps some future investment.

I agree that the wealthy buy things for rarity, bragging rights etc but not sure its going to happen with bitcoin.
 First there are potentially 21 million other people that have 1 bitcoin - even in reality if it is say 100,000 it is too many to be seen as rare. Also you cannot really "show off' a string of numbers like you can a physical thing eg first edtion comic book. Finally as the $ value climbs in years to come we may start talking more in terms of  1/1000th of a bitcoin as well as many other levels. Give it a 'sexier' working name than bitcoin eg like  "MilleniumCoin" and voila you have a new rarity  

These are all good points, and I am not really sure if it matters what bitcoin is called, because surely there is a divisible nature, and by the time a large number of millionaires want a little bit of bitcoin, we will likely not referring to whole bitcoins, but rather some smaller unit - and we may be many years away from such a state in which a large number of millionnaires want to accumulate bitcoins to such a level that they want a whole unit, rather than some fraction.




i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.

[edited out]

[edited out]

Exactly. I didn't see 600watt's comment being aimed at the millionaires and how diverse their investment portfolio should be.

Rather I thought 600watt was pointing out that once Bitcoin does reach a level of recognition & (increasing) value that the multitude of wealthy all decide they want "one" and the value rockets even higher... where does that leave those of us that invested now and held on for the ride? Wink

I admit that I was changing the point a little bit when I mentioned diversification, even though in essence, none of us are not really disagreeing in our various points, and it seems like we are making a variety of differing points.

If someone is already a millionnaire of a multimillionaire, (s)he already has a variety of investments and is not really feeling any need to deviate from his/her investments in order to preserve and/or build wealth.  

On the other hand, at some point, it is going to seem quite apparent that bitcoin should be part of one's portfolio, and that is why I mentioned the question of diversification.  Yeah, maybe some folks are going to identify bitcoin early and start to invest into it in a way that causes him/her to create a lot of wealth - yet somewhere down the road, there are going to be more mainstreaming of bitcoin, and at that point, more mainstream folks (including millionnaires) are going to likely begin to put money into bitcoin.  It seems as if we are quite a long way from that mainsteaming of bitcoin... could be 1 year or could be 10 years, but in the meantime, likely you suggested tequilamockingbird, us early adopters are going to likely benefit dearly from our investment in bitcoin and our decisions to HODL or at least not sell too high of a proportion of our stash even while the price is exponentially appreciating because of increasing levels of recognition of the value of bitcoin.
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January 23, 2017, 06:29:33 AM
Last edit: January 24, 2017, 02:04:11 AM by DaRude

Did we lose feed from Whoboi? Did China finally ban BTC?
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January 23, 2017, 06:33:41 AM
Last edit: January 23, 2017, 07:00:27 AM by r0ach

i think people who sensationalize a scalabilty problem should reevaluate the facts !  Cool

This is nonsense.  The only reason you can type such a thing right now is because nobody has been priced out of on-chain transactions yet.  As soon as that happens (which is definitely not far away), that's when bitcoin hits a wall due to what I said here:

A settlement layer has to compete with or beat gold as a store of value.  Bitcoin cannot accomplish that task so it has to do something else besides being a settlement layer or there is no point!

This is the gorilla in the room.  It turns out Roger Ver is wrong because slightly bigger blocks solves nothing.  Bitcoin would require a full blown LN capacity or it doesn't really have a value proposition.  The only question is, can the LN actually function?  It seems like to me you would have to place all channel closing in a centralized queue, so I have my doubts about LN.  And that is the real fundamental analysis of Bitcoin that most people in this thread either can't comprehend or sort of know there are issues like this but choose to ignore them and hope someone will pump it anyway.

So for bitcoin holders to have any value for their coins would need both miners to adopt segwit and LN to actually work in a decentralized manner, and there is currently no assurance for either one.  Although, I think it's likely they will pass segwit once people figure the conclusion I derive is true.  But then you still need LN to work in a decentralized manner or it's just some obfuscated form of Paypal.  Economy of scale might already cause terminal centralization for the 1st tier bitcoin network in the first place though, by driving the reqs to participate to corporation level.

From a fundamental perspective, people that can actually understand how all these variables interact (which I think are very few) know that in current state bitcoin is relatively broken in terms of long term workability.  The only question is how high can the price go before people figure that out.
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January 23, 2017, 07:01:59 AM
Last edit: January 23, 2017, 07:36:31 AM by PoolMinor

Did we loose lose feed from Whoboi? Did China finally ban BTC?

Here you go. https://cryptowat.ch/huobi/btccny

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January 23, 2017, 09:35:00 AM

From a fundamental perspective, people that can actually understand how all these variables interact (which I think are very few) know that in current state bitcoin is relatively broken in terms of long term workability.  The only question is how high can the price go before people figure that out.

Bitcoin is relatively broken in terms of long term workability from day one, yet from $1 reached $1000. Obviously, it is not that broken, isn't it?
The Internet is relatively broken in terms of long term workability from day one, yet we continue to use it in our everyday life.

Bitcoin has many serious issues. But there is not a single one that is unsolvable!
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January 23, 2017, 11:21:54 AM

i think people who sensationalize a scalabilty problem should reevaluate the facts !  Cool

This is nonsense.  The only reason you can type such a thing right now is because nobody has been priced out of on-chain transactions yet.  As soon as that happens (which is definitely not far away), that's when bitcoin hits a wall due to what I said here:

A settlement layer has to compete with or beat gold as a store of value.  Bitcoin cannot accomplish that task so it has to do something else besides being a settlement layer or there is no point!

This is the gorilla in the room.  It turns out Roger Ver is wrong because slightly bigger blocks solves nothing.  Bitcoin would require a full blown LN capacity or it doesn't really have a value proposition.  The only question is, can the LN actually function?  It seems like to me you would have to place all channel closing in a centralized queue, so I have my doubts about LN.  And that is the real fundamental analysis of Bitcoin that most people in this thread either can't comprehend or sort of know there are issues like this but choose to ignore them and hope someone will pump it anyway.

So for bitcoin holders to have any value for their coins would need both miners to adopt segwit and LN to actually work in a decentralized manner, and there is currently no assurance for either one.  Although, I think it's likely they will pass segwit once people figure the conclusion I derive is true.  But then you still need LN to work in a decentralized manner or it's just some obfuscated form of Paypal.  Economy of scale might already cause terminal centralization for the 1st tier bitcoin network in the first place though, by driving the reqs to participate to corporation level.

From a fundamental perspective, people that can actually understand how all these variables interact (which I think are very few) know that in current state bitcoin is relatively broken in terms of long term workability.  The only question is how high can the price go before people figure that out.


^bitcoin parity with gold is a nobrainer ~ segwit appears to me like a clear understandable palatable development whereas LN is leaning towards experimental and we are yet to see if it will actually work as discribed or is even an essential add-on that will be embraced by endusers.    Cool   *stay tuned*
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January 23, 2017, 11:40:25 AM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

my point is that even today, hell, even if bitcoin price tanks to $100 - no matter what price - not every existing millionaire can have one bitcoin. even if all existing btc hodlers would sell all their coins. there is no theoretical way possible, because there are more millionaires than bitcoins. to me this is an interesting fact, to lots of others it seems silly. i don´t understand why people get so itchy about it.  Smiley  

edit: hodlers
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January 23, 2017, 11:52:00 AM

And many millionaires want Bitcoin right here right now, but they want them Over the counter. I've been informed that the CEO of a SME nearby Wien bought a $1.5M worth Bitcoin back in November.
There will not be enough BTC for everybody: even Satoshis will be hoarded one day
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January 23, 2017, 11:54:42 AM

And many millionaires want Bitcoin right here right now, but they want them Over the counter. I've been informed that the CEO of a SME nearby Wien bought a $1.5M worth Bitcoin back in November.
There will not be enough BTC for everybody: even Satoshis will be hoarded one day

Exactly. This is what I am thinking. And one day some people will wish that they could've persevered those faucets. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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January 23, 2017, 11:58:08 AM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

my point is that even today, hell, even if bitcoin price tanks to $100 - no matter what price - not every existing millionaire can have one bitcoin. even if all existing btc hodlers would sell all their coins. there is no theoretical way possible, because there are more millionaires than bitcoins. to me this is an interesting fact, to lots of others it seems silly. i don´t understand why people get so itchy about it.  Smiley  

edit: hodlers


/\BTCitcoin is for BTCillionaires !  Wink  
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January 23, 2017, 12:02:44 PM

Cashed out. See you at $725..

Probably you  want to say see at 1025$ Wink
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January 23, 2017, 01:03:21 PM

i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,

I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin.

true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin.


I understand your point, but What a silly one, no?   At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no?

Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable.  So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin).

my point is that even today, hell, even if bitcoin price tanks to $100 - no matter what price - not every existing millionaire can have one bitcoin. even if all existing btc hodlers would sell all their coins. there is no theoretical way possible, because there are more millionaires than bitcoins. to me this is an interesting fact, to lots of others it seems silly. i don´t understand why people get so itchy about it.  Smiley  

edit: hodlers

This is interesting. I tried to find some data and decent information about the numbers of millionaires around the globe and found this article from mid 2015...

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/how-many-millionaires-in-the-world-it-depends.html

So depending which source you take, the number of millionaires at that time was around 14.5 to 35 million.
In addition to that there are ~1800 billionaires!
So hodl your coins guys!! Smiley
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January 23, 2017, 01:06:36 PM

Cashed out. See you at $725..

Probably you  want to say see at 1025$ Wink

I cashed out too. See you at $1725.
I sold out my bank tokens and got bitcoins (the real cash).
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January 23, 2017, 01:11:23 PM

This is the gorilla in the room.  It turns out Roger Ver is wrong because slightly bigger blocks solves nothing.  Bitcoin would require a full blown LN capacity or it doesn't really have a value proposition.  

Everything is fine.


The limited blockspace means just that BTC is supposed to be for serious stuff = perfect for storage of value/asset protection/diversification.
For tips and sh*t there is a thousand alts you can play with.
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January 23, 2017, 01:12:42 PM

bank tokens

I warned you guys for years and people didn't listen.  Bankers are literally shilling in the streets now:

http://www.dailystormer.com/white-men-against-trump-protester-called-out-as-filthy-jew-rat/
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January 23, 2017, 01:17:45 PM

For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights.

i don't think the super rich pour money into new technologies for the sake of impressing anyone. the only reason they'd do it is to become more super rich which is fine by me.
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January 23, 2017, 02:11:29 PM
Last edit: January 23, 2017, 02:38:53 PM by DieJohnny

i think people who sensationalize a scalabilty problem should reevaluate the facts !  Cool

This is nonsense.  The only reason you can type such a thing right now is because nobody has been priced out of on-chain transactions yet.  As soon as that happens (which is definitely not far away), that's when bitcoin hits a wall due to what I said here:

A settlement layer has to compete with or beat gold as a store of value.  Bitcoin cannot accomplish that task so it has to do something else besides being a settlement layer or there is no point!

This is the gorilla in the room.  It turns out Roger Ver is wrong because slightly bigger blocks solves nothing.  Bitcoin would require a full blown LN capacity or it doesn't really have a value proposition.  The only question is, can the LN actually function?  It seems like to me you would have to place all channel closing in a centralized queue, so I have my doubts about LN.  And that is the real fundamental analysis of Bitcoin that most people in this thread either can't comprehend or sort of know there are issues like this but choose to ignore them and hope someone will pump it anyway.

So for bitcoin holders to have any value for their coins would need both miners to adopt segwit and LN to actually work in a decentralized manner, and there is currently no assurance for either one.  Although, I think it's likely they will pass segwit once people figure the conclusion I derive is true.  But then you still need LN to work in a decentralized manner or it's just some obfuscated form of Paypal.  Economy of scale might already cause terminal centralization for the 1st tier bitcoin network in the first place though, by driving the reqs to participate to corporation level.

From a fundamental perspective, people that can actually understand how all these variables interact (which I think are very few) know that in current state bitcoin is relatively broken in terms of long term workability.  The only question is how high can the price go before people figure that out.

No, bitcoin does not need fungibility to have value. Bearer bonds, titanium, real estate, all are not close to being cash-fungible. Bitcoin only needs the ability transfer irrefutable ownership paired with critical-mass awareness, which Bitcoin achieved long ago, and which Bitcoin will never cease to have.

Bitcoin's path was set in stone 3 years ago, we are marching towards the inevitable. There are obviously going to be trivially small variations in that path, and there will be competitors, but Bitcoin as a global store of value has already happened. That value will only increase from a fast-growth perspective for 15-20 years, then increase only as the global economy increases.  
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