Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Holliday]

What could be worth the only thing in the universe that the state cannot take from you?

If the state has the power to take everything from you, I'm not sure how useful a bitcoin brain wallet is gonna be while you're hammering rocks in the gulag.

The thing that came to my mind immediately is that your family can use that money while you are imprisoned. (On a side note, there are far better methods than a brain wallet to protect your coins from seizure.

What methods?

The most obvious, some version of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing

Using that in a certain way, I could limit my own access while providing access to someone I trust completely (immediate family). That way, my money can not be tortured from me, and my family can continue to use those funds to live, provide me with an attorney, flee, etc. when I am imprisoned.

Yes, unless enough other members of your family get imprisoned to reveal the private key. If hammering rocks in the gulag/torture is enough to make you reveal a private key, it's probably also enough to make you reveal which members of your family hold a shared secret.

Well, the idea is that those who are not imprisoned initially can take further steps to redo the method once one of them is compromised. If your entire family is sent to the gulag all at once, I guess it doesn't really matter much anymore. Personally, I'd rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.

Finally, if you are truly hardcore, you could use the method to make it so no one can access those coins if you are taken. (Destroy required pieces through a dead man's switch or something.)

Use your imagination! There are countless ways to divide and secure private keys. I would never use a brain wallet.

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[HI-TEC99]

Yes, unless enough other members of your family get imprisoned to reveal the private key. If hammering rocks in the gulag/torture is enough to make you reveal a private key, it's probably also enough to make you reveal which members of your family hold a shared secret.

Likewise if they are torturing you for information and you don't have it but they think you do then you will be in for what one could call a "really long night". Better to use steg and a variation of rubber hose to double encrypt keys to two wallets, one with some money to satisfy the torturers, the other with the real money.

Of course torturers could torture everyone further to look for a "second key" but at some point they have to go home for dinner and a good game of Splatoon, so that's kind of self-limiting.

C
(BTDT)

What if there were so many torturers that they could use shifts to take it in turns to torture everyone? One group of torturers could be torturing while another group of torturers could be at home for dinner, and yet another group of torturers could be having a nice day off.

[conspirosphere.tk]

What if there were so many torturers that they could use shifts

Funny that you don't realize that you are already in a gulag run by torturers. They already extort you of >50% of whatever you produce (see taxation as a fraction of GDP in the west). They find difficult to go for more just because we have already passed the peak of the Laffer curve.
And that's the why of demonetization/war on cash.

[Fatman3001]

dat chinese volume...

[JayJuanGee]

Which of the below you think is more true?

1. When the price is kept just above $900 you fear it will drop into the 800's.
2. When the price is kept into the high $800's you fear it will go into the 900's.

I think the first over the second. This could be a little whale psychology: whale(s) accumulating vs. whale(s) exiting.

You seem to be giving significance to some random numbers...., and whales do not accumulate or exit based on numbers but instead based on resistance and support, and sometimes they may not even know with certainty whether support or resistance will hold - but some of them will be in a better position to know, as compared to some of us little fish who are looking from the outside attempting to prepare for one way or another. and assigning significance based on more incomplete information than has the whales.

And, I am also of the belief that some of the whales can be similarly surprised as some of us smaller fish, when maybe pump or dump momentum comes unpredictably from another whale.

Which of the below you think is more true?

1. When the price is kept just above $900 you fear it will drop into the 800's.
2. When the price is kept into the high $800's you fear it will go into the 900's.

I think the first over the second. This could be a little whale psychology: whale(s) accumulating vs. whale(s) exiting.

When price is > 650 I fear it will crash
When price is < 600 I buy buy buy

Very simple. I think btc isn't worth $800 or even $900. I do like seeing moon rocket though. Good fun  

Good luck with your nonsense pie in the sky projections of value that seem to be without backing - for some reason it is worth less than $600 but it is not worth more than $800.. yeah right, and how do you come up with those seemingly random assessment of BTC value calculations?

Have you sold all your BTC in anticipation of such a price drop, or did you hold onto some just in case you might be wrong?

what is your timeline on such nonsensical less than $600s?

If I were to currently attempt to make such a prediction of less than $600, let's say in the next three months, I would place that in the ballpark of about less than 25% .. so in other words, good luck with waiting for and expecting something that likely has a not too high likelihood of taking place any time soon, absent some new developments, such as the hacking of an exchange or major innovative FUD or some other currently unknown negative occurrence.

600 is just as arbitrary a figure as 900. it's worth whatever anyone's willing to sell for and someone else is willing to buy. the price is 95% hot air anyway.

Agreed here.
It's true for pretty much anything but it's REALLY TRUE for bitcoin.
Material things have a clear and defined utility. There is some kind of internal values for objects.
But btc? It's just... An idea. It worth nothing more than what people are willing to pay for this idea.

Wow... looks like either a lot of trolls are coming out, or quite a few folks sold in the $900s and hoping for a 5% or more price drop... sure, could happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Almost too dumb of a statement to even respond to... .but let me just give a little bit of a response regarding material things. 

Bitcoin is much beyond the "ideas" arena.  It has material phenomenal computing power dedicated to it, and a pretty good sized infrastructure of development (software, hardware and just ongoing blood and sweat).  Far from just an "idea" because it has solved a double spend problem through the creation of a immutable censorship resistant secure value storage and transmittal system.. that is not merely an idea, it is a current implementation that is in practice on a daily basis and evolving over 8 years.   You understand those ideas, right valta4065?

[JayJuanGee]

dat chinese volume...

What about it?   I know, I  know... fatty is a bit incomplete in his/her commentary... and tends to just bring up random topics in order that others can comment upon them, and make provocative statements.. because s/he wants attention for the mere sake of attention...


Anyhow, regarding chinese trade volume...

From what I can tell it seems to be coming down to quasi-normal levels (or at least within the range of "normal") - even though it may be a bit difficult to characterize this past week as "typical" in respect to the Chinese because of the holiday and all of that...

So yeah, let's see how this ongoing bitcoin trade situation in China plays out, of course there could still be some "fakery" going on with them (they are chinese, of course, no?), but at this point, those major three chinese exchanges seem to be making a decent appearance of normalizing their exchange practices in order, possibly, not to bring undue scrutiny upon themselves from other powerful forces within their jurisdiction - such as bankers, governments, rich folks, etc.

[ImI]

Looks like the US is heading towards a constitutional crisis at best and armed clashes between civilians at worst. Question remains how BTC would react in such a scenario? It's not a given that prices would rise imo.

[600watt]

Looks like the US is heading towards a constitutional crisis at best and armed clashes between civilians at worst. Question remains how BTC would react in such a scenario? It's not a given that prices would rise imo.

when trump took office a week ago price was @ $880. today it is $913. now do your math. if he keeps it going like this in four years price will be around $7777.   

[Genesis1337]

Looks like the US is heading towards a constitutional crisis at best and armed clashes between civilians at worst. Question remains how BTC would react in such a scenario? It's not a given that prices would rise imo.

Well, since a lot of ppl see bitcoin as a gold 2.0, it would skyrocket during a hyperinlflation event after the fed tries to decrease the national debt. not sure what you mean by constitutional crisis, so idk. but the way i see it playing out is Janet Yellen trying to make Trump administration look bad by mathematically creating another crash then hyperinflation similar to 2008, but on a larger scale.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Looks like the US is heading towards a constitutional crisis at best and armed clashes between civilians at worst. Question remains how BTC would react in such a scenario? It's not a given that prices would rise imo.

If the Donald is the fall guy as I suspect, the plan is to pull the plug and blame him, that is: stop printing/raise rates and let everything default (in order to reset the system while buying all for peanuts). The price of almost all assets should crash then -but gold price should remain very resilient. Then we'll see if BTC really works as digital gold. For the moment it seems to have no correlation with gold price: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-gold-prices-correlated/

[Killerpotleaf]

it appears, OP is alive! and he has written up a nice little post about what a kind of fee market we could expect from a BU network.
https://medium.com/@adamstgbit_25789/bitcoin-unlimited-to-bring-stability-to-bitcoins-fee-market-6b5a4f882fc0#.wod2tts48
apparently BU is going to yield some kind of "optimal block size" phhh OP's a nut case, might be worth the 4 min read tho.  

[Fatman3001]

it appears, OP is alive! and he has written up a nice little post about what a kind of fee market we could expect from a BU network.
https://medium.com/@adamstgbit_25789/bitcoin-unlimited-to-bring-stability-to-bitcoins-fee-market-6b5a4f882fc0#.wod2tts48
apparently BU is going to yield some kind of "optimal block size" phhh OP's a nut case, might be worth the 4 min read tho.  

ALL HAIL ADAM!!!

[JayJuanGee]

it appears, OP is alive! and he has written up a nice little post about what a kind of fee market we could expect from a BU network.
https://medium.com/@adamstgbit_25789/bitcoin-unlimited-to-bring-stability-to-bitcoins-fee-market-6b5a4f882fc0#.wod2tts48
apparently BU is going to yield some kind of "optimal block size" phhh OP's a nut case, might be worth the 4 min read tho.  

Even though I think that you are an adorable penquin turned martian, it is too bad that you are spreading around nonsense.... and also attempting to distract from seg wit as a robust solution that brings lots of great and innovative tweaks to bitcoin. 

 Many of us should recognize that bitcoin unlimited is largely nonsense, lacking in testing, and does not resolve any current issues, at least in terms of providing additional robustness to bitcoin - in the sense that bitcoin is likely to be a target for many years to come of governments and/or financial institutions that would aim to undermine bitcoin..  and seg wit would be a good solution to seal up various potential vulnerabilities while BU would create additional vulnerabilities, while not really resolving anything that is currently necessary of resolution.

[marcus_of_augustus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5qwtr2/bitcoincom_loses_132btc_trying_to_fork_the/

want to blow some serious money on bitcoin mining? ... join a BU pool 

[JayJuanGee]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5qwtr2/bitcoincom_loses_132btc_trying_to_fork_the/

want to blow some serious money on bitcoin mining? ... join a BU pool 

That is fucking ridiculous.

I hope that innocent folks did not lose any money because of that kind of bullshit coming out of the BU camp.

You can just listen to some of the nonsense that Roger Ver spouts out to recognize that he is way too emotional about things and he just wants to get his way and to cause disruption (even though he may honestly believe what he is attempting to do is for the good of bitcoin).

[marcus_of_augustus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5qwtr2/bitcoincom_loses_132btc_trying_to_fork_the/

want to blow some serious money on bitcoin mining? ... join a BU pool 

That is fucking ridiculous.

I hope that innocent folks did not lose any money because of that kind of bullshit coming out of the BU camp.

You can just listen to some of the nonsense that Roger Ver spouts out to recognize that he is way too emotional about things and he just wants to get his way and to cause disruption (even though he may honestly believe what he is attempting to do is for the good of bitcoin).

I'm sure they have ... and it's a lot more money than just this 13.2 BTC because all the hashpower spent working on blocks >1Mbyte would have been totally wasted for any pool running this BU code.

They were buying tickets for a fantasy lottery that never existed ... tens of thousands of dollars worth of tickets probably .... power company and Antminer says thank you   

[Miz4r]

I think Roger Ver is generally a good guy but just blinded by a grudge he is holding against a certain r/bitcoin mod. A shame really, as he and others are effectively holding back Bitcoin right now propagandizing this BU nonsense that will get us nowhere.

[tabnloz]

Looks like the US is heading towards a constitutional crisis at best and armed clashes between civilians at worst. Question remains how BTC would react in such a scenario? It's not a given that prices would rise imo.

While I disagree with Trump, when you look at this latest move through the prism of his theme of protectionism, it shouldn't be unexpected.

Walls, trade tariffs, visa bans all point towards protectionism ie, 'we're looking after ourselves first & screw the rest of you (especially those we've bombed to buggery for a decade).'

[JayJuanGee]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5qwtr2/bitcoincom_loses_132btc_trying_to_fork_the/

want to blow some serious money on bitcoin mining? ... join a BU pool  

That is fucking ridiculous.

I hope that innocent folks did not lose any money because of that kind of bullshit coming out of the BU camp.

You can just listen to some of the nonsense that Roger Ver spouts out to recognize that he is way too emotional about things and he just wants to get his way and to cause disruption (even though he may honestly believe what he is attempting to do is for the good of bitcoin).

I'm sure they have ... and it's a lot more money than just this 13.2 BTC because all the hashpower spent working on blocks >1Mbyte would have been totally wasted for any pool running this BU code.

They were buying tickets for a fantasy lottery that never existed ... tens of thousands of dollars worth of tickets probably .... power company and Antminer says thank you    

If it is just get rich quick schemes and emotional reactions, then probably, we don't need to feel sorry for those kinds of folks who may have lost money because they are engaging in a risky business, but if actual innocent people lost money because of orphaned blocks or something like that, then what can be done?

I might not be technically aware enough, but isn't it possible that some innocent folks could have gotten screwed on some bitcoin transaction that got orphaned.. or am I misunderstanding the situation?

[notme]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5qwtr2/bitcoincom_loses_132btc_trying_to_fork_the/

want to blow some serious money on bitcoin mining? ... join a BU pool 

That is fucking ridiculous.

I hope that innocent folks did not lose any money because of that kind of bullshit coming out of the BU camp.

You can just listen to some of the nonsense that Roger Ver spouts out to recognize that he is way too emotional about things and he just wants to get his way and to cause disruption (even though he may honestly believe what he is attempting to do is for the good of bitcoin).

I'm sure they have ... and it's a lot more money than just this 13.2 BTC because all the hashpower spent working on blocks >1Mbyte would have been totally wasted for any pool running this BU code.

They were buying tickets for a fantasy lottery that never existed ... tens of thousands of dollars worth of tickets probably .... power company and Antminer says thank you   

If it is just get rich quick schemes and emotional reactions, then probably, we don't need to feel sorry for those kinds of folks who may have lost money because they are engaging in a risky business, but if actual innocent people lost money because of orphaned blocks or something like that, then what can be done?

I might not be technically aware enough, but isn't it possible that some innocent folks could have gotten screwed on some bitcoin transaction that got orphaned.. or am I misunderstanding the situation?

If the BU blocks where orphaned, then the transactions they contained were either included in the competing fork that one out, or they got put back into the mempool and made it into later blocks.  No transactions would have been lost.  Of course, why learn how transaction processing works before you go spout off about the irresponsibility of one of the groups actually working to increase transaction throughput.