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Question: When $60K? (EST time zone)
Feb. 21 - 7 (5.7%)
Feb. 22 - 19 (15.6%)
Feb. 23 - 13 (10.7%)
Feb. 24 - 9 (7.4%)
Feb. 25 - 8 (6.6%)
Feb. 26 - 9 (7.4%)
Feb. 27 - 3 (2.5%)
Feb. 28 - 4 (3.3%)
March - 28 (23%)
After March - 14 (11.5%)
Never - 8 (6.6%)
Total Voters: 122

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25190889 times)
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bones261
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June 28, 2017, 02:51:18 AM

I guess a technology to detect densely stored metals is already well developed, isn't it they use to find deposit fields inside mountains to mine it then?
If they can develop such a detector, that would be not impossible to make something to detect the 2,000 Kg of silver you buried in your backyard.
But I think it would be harder to involuntarily extract a 12-words seed from your memory...

It would probably only take a $5.00 wrench to extract that from your memory.  Cheesy

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June 28, 2017, 02:53:06 AM
Last edit: June 28, 2017, 03:03:32 AM by r0ach

If the "Powers that be" can and do on a regular basis as you put it, crash the price of gold/silver, then how are any investments in gold or silver a proper store of value?

They play Keynesianism in the commodities market and naked short metals down trying to cap them at like 5-10% above cost of production.  This means they're usually a good buy in general since you're getting them practically at cost, with the price being almost entirely a derivative of oil.  Oil EROI is currently collapsing, which will soon collapse the ability to manipulate metals.

As for bitcoin, bitcoin cost of production is floating - recursive based on it's own demand.  Bankers don't naked short metals below cost of production because it's counterintuitive and would create enormous scarcity.  It would also bankrupt miners, creating even more scarcity, so they try to rig it right above production cost.  

However, if bankers ever want to naked short bitcoin, it's VERY productive since they can easily play a war of attrition and literally delete any price floor which they cannot do in metals.  Metals actually have a cost of production price floor and bitcoin doesn't.  They can drag the bitcoin cost of production floor down from $10,000 each all the way to $1 if they want to.  That's something you can never do in metals.  The only thing that could stop them from doing so in bitcoin is if it became the unit of account of something, but since like I said, it doesn't function as a store of value having no price floor, it's unlikely to happen when better alternatives like metals exist that actually can function as a store of value.

Am I wrong or to store $1Mill in silver one would need almost 2.000KG of silver?

Weight is irrelevant in current state.  It just means you will make more money when the GSR collapses closer to historical levels (15:1) when their Comex rigging blows up.  It's like claiming, "o god, buying 100 pounds of gold is too heavy for $10 an ounce".  No, nothing is too heavy if you get a good deal on it.
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June 28, 2017, 03:07:24 AM

If the "Powers that be" can and do on a regular basis as you put it, crash the price of gold/silver, then how are any investments in gold or silver a proper store of value?

They play Keynesianism in the commodities market and naked short metals down trying to cap them at like 5-10% above cost of production.  This means they're usually a good buy in general since you're getting them practically at cost, with the price being almost entirely a derivative of oil.  Oil EROI is currently collapsing, which will soon collapse the ability to manipulate metals.

As for bitcoin, bitcoin cost of production is floating - recursive based on it's own demand.  Bankers don't naked short metals below cost of production because it's counterintuitive and would create enormous scarcity.  It would also bankrupt miners, creating even more scarcity, so they try to rig it right above production cost.  

However, if bankers ever want to naked short bitcoin, it's VERY productive since they can easily play a war of attrition and literally delete any price floor which they cannot do in metals.  Metals actually have a cost of production price floor and bitcoin doesn't.  They can drag the bitcoin cost of production floor down from $10,000 each all the way to $1 if they want to.  That's something you can never do in metals.  The only thing that could stop them from doing so in bitcoin is if it became the unit of account of something, but since like I said, it doesn't function as a store of value having no price floor, it's unlikely to happen when better alternatives like metals exist that actually can function as a store of value.

Am I wrong or to store $1Mill in silver one would need almost 2.000KG of silver?

Weight is irrelevant in current state.  It just means you will make more money when the GSR collapses closer to historical levels (15:1) when their Comex rigging blows up.  It's like claiming, "o god, buying 100 pounds of gold is too heavy for $10 an ounce".  No, nothing is too heavy if you get a good deal on it.

 Can you describe the mechanism that "they" would use to drag the price floor of a Bitcoin to $1? Who is "they"?

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June 28, 2017, 03:12:50 AM

Can you describe the mechanism that "they" would use to drag the price floor of a Bitcoin to $1? Who is "they"?

Already did, war of attrition.  Miners will not mine at a loss forever.  They just tank the price on exchanges and then miners either immediately turn off their machines or do a few weeks later.  If you look at things like litecoin hash rate vs price lately, these Chinese are turning on and off machines almost immediately as price fluctuates.  

Once they tank the price on exchanges either with real coins or synthetic derivatives, even if cost of production of a coin was once $10,000, there is no reason to pay that anymore since you can mine a never ending stream of coins as transaction fees for however low they want to tank the cost of production to.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that bitcoin has no price floor, does not function as a store of value, and is much easier to destroy by financial manipulation than gold or silver are.
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June 28, 2017, 03:15:56 AM

I guess a technology to detect densely stored metals is already well developed, isn't it they use to find deposit fields inside mountains to mine it then?
If they can develop such a detector, that would be not impossible to make something to detect the 2,000 Kg of silver you buried in your backyard.
But I think it would be harder to involuntarily extract a 12-words seed from your memory...

It would probably only take a $5.00 wrench to extract that from your memory.  Cheesy



Sheeeeet!
deepcolderwallet
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June 28, 2017, 03:24:35 AM

Can you describe the mechanism that "they" would use to drag the price floor of a Bitcoin to $1? Who is "they"?

Already did, war of attrition.  Miners will not mine at a loss forever.  They just tank the price on exchanges and then miners either immediately turn off their machines or do a few weeks later.  If you look at things like litecoin hash rate vs price lately, these Chinese are turning on and off machines almost immediately as price fluctuates.  

Once they tank the price on exchanges either with real coins or synthetic derivatives, even if cost of production of a coin was once $10,000, there is no reason to pay that anymore since you can mine a never ending stream of coins as transaction fees for however low they want to tank the cost of production to.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that bitcoin has no price floor, does not function as a store of value, and is much easier to destroy by financial manipulation than gold or silver are.

Lol when those chinese bastards are outta game my CPU will gratefully do the job.
While there are perhaps some hundreds of thousands of AntMiners there are BILLIONS of CPUs and GPUs happily waiting to start mining Bitcoins and the only tradeoff will be a minor increase in energy bill.
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June 28, 2017, 03:26:58 AM

Don't be fooled, cockroach!
The Bitcoin dynamics are more complex than any of us, for smarter he could be, would predict.
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June 28, 2017, 03:38:56 AM

Can you describe the mechanism that "they" would use to drag the price floor of a Bitcoin to $1? Who is "they"?

Already did, war of attrition.  Miners will not mine at a loss forever.  They just tank the price on exchanges and then miners either immediately turn off their machines or do a few weeks later.  If you look at things like litecoin hash rate vs price lately, these Chinese are turning on and off machines almost immediately as price fluctuates.  

Once they tank the price on exchanges either with real coins or synthetic derivatives, even if cost of production of a coin was once $10,000, there is no reason to pay that anymore since you can mine a never ending stream of coins as transaction fees for however low they want to tank the cost of production to.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that bitcoin has no price floor, does not function as a store of value, and is much easier to destroy by financial manipulation than gold or silver are.

 Does it take a rocket scientist to tell me who "they" are?  Who is going to tank the price to begin this war of attrition?
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June 28, 2017, 04:10:44 AM

Many distributed computing projects "mine at a loss" ... since forever. Cracking RSA, looking for aliens, folding proteins, cure for cancer, large mersenne prime numbers, golomb rulers, studying asteroids, climate predictions, detect earthquakes and a whole bunch of other math stuff.

They all "mine at a loss". Only bitcoin has been the first distributed computing project that has an economic incentive, yet early miners all mined "at a loss".

Bitcoin is obviously a medium of exchange, but it is also arguably both a unit of account and a store of value. However unlikely it can be dragged down to $1 at this point in time, it is still all three.

People can save it and use it later, so it is a store of value. One that can go up and down, just like silver and gold.

It can provide a common base for prices, particularly with all other alts, so it is a unit of account.
It is something that people can use to buy and sell from one another, from hardware, to airline tickets, goods and services, so it is a medium of exchange.

For bitcoin to die, they need to kill the internet and shut down all electric power world wide.

Again, I will repeat what satoshi said so many years ago: If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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June 28, 2017, 04:17:57 AM

Can you describe the mechanism that "they" would use to drag the price floor of a Bitcoin to $1? Who is "they"?

Already did, war of attrition.  Miners will not mine at a loss forever.  They just tank the price on exchanges and then miners either immediately turn off their machines or do a few weeks later.  If you look at things like litecoin hash rate vs price lately, these Chinese are turning on and off machines almost immediately as price fluctuates.  

Once they tank the price on exchanges either with real coins or synthetic derivatives, even if cost of production of a coin was once $10,000, there is no reason to pay that anymore since you can mine a never ending stream of coins as transaction fees for however low they want to tank the cost of production to.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that bitcoin has no price floor, does not function as a store of value, and is much easier to destroy by financial manipulation than gold or silver are.

Lol when those chinese bastards are outta game my CPU will gratefully do the job.
While there are perhaps some hundreds of thousands of AntMiners there are BILLIONS of CPUs and GPUs happily waiting to start mining Bitcoins and the only tradeoff will be a minor increase in energy bill.

You would need more than 5 billion gaming computers to even come close to the current hash rate. Only got 5 million? Expect each block to take a year or more for you to mine. And I'm being generous on assuming that your high end gaming rigs can hash a gig per second. Better hope the next difficulty adjustment is a few blocks away...(BTW I'm using the American definition of million and billion.)
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June 28, 2017, 04:58:48 AM

Gaming circuits would be like using a fork to drink your soup with right now.     I would rather they kept the calculation so complex it always needed a computer but thats not how it went,

Some miners have access to free electricity i think, they wont turn off immediately.  The setup is the main cost for many I think, overheads like alot of business done.  Means you operate a loss sometimes and carry on.

I said I'd be more positive if we broke a negative channel which is what it did though I wasnt watching.   It could be still viewed as negative some at $2,500
Maybe look at stronger dollar and that idea when considering direction, as is relevant to many prices.   However I believe dollar is generally weaker, Fed rate remains below inflation.
Kraken regained above a previous negative trend
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June 28, 2017, 05:14:04 AM

~
Some miners have access to free electricity i think, ~

nothing in the whole world is free let alone electricity.
so no miner has access to any "free" electricity. they instead have some pretty good contracts with some private and small electric companies that allows them to have access to a much cheaper electricity. and it is a win-win situation for both parties.
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June 28, 2017, 05:45:33 AM

Wow, it's amazing how easy it is to get a transaction through, lately. I made a transaction with my Electrum wallet and set the fee all the way "to within 25 blocks" (I was willing to wait since I didn't find the transfer very pressing to get though.) and it confirmed in only 2 blocks. It's almost as if the powers that be want to make it easy to move to an exchange and dump.  Roll Eyes
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June 28, 2017, 05:52:16 AM

Wow, it's amazing how easy it is to get a transaction through, lately. I made a transaction with my Electrum wallet and set the fee all the way "to within 25 blocks" (I was willing to wait since I didn't find the transfer very pressing to get though.) and it confirmed in only 2 blocks. It's almost as if the powers that be want to make it easy to move to an exchange and dump.  Roll Eyes

The number of unconfirmed transactions has lowered to minimuns, the hashrate is also slightly lowering, and the number of empty blocks mined has also reduced.... <- Maybe JihanWu is unwinding his ASICBOOST operation in advance so that it doesn't get so evident in Aug1?
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June 28, 2017, 06:34:52 AM

Why is the roach still talking?
Sexual frustrated? Maybe?
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June 28, 2017, 07:18:37 AM

Why is the roach still talking?
Sexual frustrated? Maybe?

I don´t get the point why people are posting on BitCointalk, when they don´t believe in BitCoin at all. I would just leave, say good bye to BitCoin and spend my time with things i believe in / like.
It´s like beeing Burger King lover, but instead of buying a whooper you waste your time talking to people at McDonalds what kind of trash the McDonalds food is.... Why don´t just grab a whooper and enjoy life?
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June 28, 2017, 08:44:22 AM

Many distributed computing projects "mine at a loss" ... since forever. Cracking RSA, looking for aliens, folding proteins, cure for cancer, large mersenne prime numbers, golomb rulers, studying asteroids, climate predictions, detect earthquakes and a whole bunch of other math stuff.

They all "mine at a loss". Only bitcoin has been the first distributed computing project that has an economic incentive, yet early miners all mined "at a loss".



This is a great view and the biggest difference to all other (ETH) ICOs

Satoshi really mined 'at a loss' since first 2 years the price for all those bitcoins was mostly 0.000 -  but he had lots of expenses for mining and time spent and no look into future price and success.

I've to explain this to newbees all the time and it's hard to understand today where price is 2500$ !
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June 28, 2017, 09:42:13 AM

We've been warned.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6jrl5o/unrealistic_volatility_expectations/
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June 28, 2017, 09:59:11 AM

bears looking ugly again ... and all the usual full of shit trolls crawling out from their roach holes spewing golden lies.

... might be a good buyable dip, who knows ?
my original plan was to buy at 2200, but..
1.) I got scared by the speed it was going down,
2.) It didn't get to 2200 Grin [low was 2207.8]
..so now, Im not taking any action on bitcoin before this triangle is broken. But if its broken on the lower side, i will start to believe its H&S in the making and $2000 would be in danger

for now, in my view, it should target 2500+, but may still correct a bit towards 2300 before


I'm watching that as well.

Looking at past, both 2012 and 2013 "bubble" corrections happened to hit both EMA (50) and EMA (100) on daily (BitStamp).
Today daily EMA (50) sits at 2332$, EMA (100) way lower at 1973$.

Sure past does not repeats itself, yet something can be learnt from it.
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June 28, 2017, 10:03:00 AM

Are we doomed now?:

https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/06/27/hijacking-bitcoin-routing-attacks-on-cryptocurrencies/

Or is it utter-nonsense?
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