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Question: When $60K? (EST time zone)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25182718 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13 users deleted.)
Ibian
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June 20, 2017, 10:03:41 PM

if we are really going to grow (don't we all want that?)
No. A lot of people really, really don't want that. Like the wordy guy a few posts up who, quite uncharacteristically for those people, openly admitted it. That's why nothing has been done yet.

Don't mischaracterize me.

Merely because I think that a 2mb blocksize limit increase is not necessary does not mean that I don't want bitcoin to grow.

If something is not needed, then it is not needed, so it makes little to no sense to implement something that is not needed, and that does not mean that bitcoin will not grow.
Look dude it's not worth it. You don't want more capacity, fine, get fucked. The rest of us do.
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June 20, 2017, 10:04:33 PM

I don't like Segwit but this agreement is potentially bullish as it means a way forward. Hopefully the hard-fork will proceed as planned (unfortunately, it can't be guaranteed) or things will get messy.
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June 20, 2017, 10:07:26 PM

Most cryptocurrencies other than Bitcoin are down.  ETH is down, Ripple doesn't count, Litecoin is down, ETC is down, DASH is down...

Looks like some money is slowly starting to flow back out of altcoins and into BTC.  The SegWit hype will amplify this over the next month or so.

Time to short some altcoins if you ask me.

Still holding onto some 15 or so that showed positive performance (none of the ones you  mentioned) in the midst of destruction, I guess everything else was weeds. Gonna get some sleep finally.


I'm into a couple of stable ones which I like as well.  I'm just not a fan of the big names.

if we are really going to grow (don't we all want that?)
No. A lot of people really, really don't want that. Like the wordy guy a few posts up who, quite uncharacteristically for those people, openly admitted it. That's why nothing has been done yet.

Don't mischaracterize me.

Merely because I think that a 2mb blocksize limit increase is not necessary does not mean that I don't want bitcoin to grow.

If something is not needed, then it is not needed, so it makes little to no sense to implement something that is not needed, and that does not mean that bitcoin will not grow.
I somewhat agree, but if it isn't needed then it won't be used.

When spammers aren't trying to push up the block size like they have been recently, the blocks don't have to be near full all the time, which means that the difficulty of running a node can still stay pretty reasonable.  The fact that it's a static blocksize increase rather than a dynamic system means that it's not particularly worrying for the future either.

The important thing is that if a 2MB hardfork happens, it's high consensus.  The implications of a 2MB max block size are not that important compared to the implications of a messy hard fork with loads of arguments.
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June 20, 2017, 10:08:44 PM

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/


Right lets hack a working code, if these issues were a problem it would mean bitcoin is unusable.

Bitcoin at a price of $2739 USD, this says it all, investing in a product that works.

Seems like propaganda, afflict the comfortable with made up issues or perceived threats and announce we are doing it for safety and security


The question here is who would want bitcoin not to work or work in a way that can be corrupted.

Look at the players and funding behind segwit and you will get your answer.



And be careful cause when the propaganda do not get their own way they will attack ending in a violent tirade of abuse and if not violence

Another known tactic is to buy members accounts that have high posts, you can tell as the original posts do not reflect their current propaganda
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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June 20, 2017, 10:24:53 PM

Remind me not to start an argument with JJG
That's what they do. They talk and talk and talk endlessly until people get tired and go away. A lack of brevity is a strong tell for the type of people who prefer to tear others down instead of building everyone up.


Bullshit!!

You are engaging in the exact tactic that you are attempting to dispute.

If you are concerned about something that I said, then why don't you engage with the topic rather than saying that I have too many words in my post (which is a non-substantive and largely personal attack)
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June 20, 2017, 10:29:08 PM

if we are really going to grow (don't we all want that?)
No. A lot of people really, really don't want that. Like the wordy guy a few posts up who, quite uncharacteristically for those people, openly admitted it. That's why nothing has been done yet.

Don't mischaracterize me.

Merely because I think that a 2mb blocksize limit increase is not necessary does not mean that I don't want bitcoin to grow.

If something is not needed, then it is not needed, so it makes little to no sense to implement something that is not needed, and that does not mean that bitcoin will not grow.
Look dude it's not worth it. You don't want more capacity, fine, get fucked. The rest of us do.


Who is "the rest of us"?  You trying to act like you have some kind of backing, then back it up with hashing power, that is what consensus is about.  If you cannot achieve consensus, then your idea must not be good enough.

I am not saying what I want.  I am saying that what you are asserting to be necessary (a 2mb blocksize limit increase) is not necessary.  There is little to no facts nor logic that is based on facts that support such an assertion.

So, it does not really matter what I want.  I just go along with whatever is the system, and the current system is a 1mb blocksize limit.  Seems to be working pretty good, and working even better when there are not ongoing persistent and malicious spam attacks.
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June 20, 2017, 10:39:13 PM

You are misreading the wall and what it represents. Simply it is a way for the entity that put up the wall to buy at below the wall price. If they wanted to sell they would sell at market price and be done with it(while creating this panic you are worried about). This really isn't rocket science. The only walls we should be worried about are buy walls because they denote a major sell off is imminent.



lolololol some dick head put 400 sell wall at bitstamp fucking cunt

He keeps pulling it, then putting it back up. It looks fake to me, and I suspect someone will buy it if he leaves it up long enough. If he really wanted to ell he wouldn't keep pulling it. He wants to create panic, but it's not working.

edit

It's been pulled again.






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June 20, 2017, 11:04:35 PM

What you said is what I mean't, but maybe I articulated it badly. I mean't someone put up that wall to start people panic selling into the sneaky unnoticeable laddered small buy orders he secretly put up.

Unfortunately for him the market is so bullish that it soon became obvious someone would buy his wall if he left it up for long. His cunning plan failed.

You are misreading the wall and what it represents. Simply it is a way for the entity that put up the wall to buy at below the wall price. If they wanted to sell they would sell at market price and be done with it(while creating this panic you are worried about). This really isn't rocket science. The only walls we should be worried about are buy walls because they denote a major sell off is imminent.



lolololol some dick head put 400 sell wall at bitstamp fucking cunt

He keeps pulling it, then putting it back up. It looks fake to me, and I suspect someone will buy it if he leaves it up long enough. If he really wanted to ell he wouldn't keep pulling it. He wants to create panic, but it's not working.

edit

It's been pulled again.







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June 20, 2017, 11:05:58 PM

You are misreading the wall and what it represents. Simply it is a way for the entity that put up the wall to buy at below the wall price. If they wanted to sell they would sell at market price and be done with it(while creating this panic you are worried about). This really isn't rocket science. The only walls we should be worried about are buy walls because they denote a major sell off is imminent.


Happens every...single...time.

Huge sell walls are great. The whale is manipulating up.
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June 20, 2017, 11:40:13 PM

He bought his own wall, don't you see? The wall is only "fake" because it is owned by the one that buys it.
I realize this tactic might be strange but several of these exchanges have fees that are based on volume, and when one's fee is at a minimum one can afford to buy/sell into their own walls.

When these walls are created they are to induce a certain mindset. First people will place their sell orders below the wall price(explained in previous post). Second they inflict a panic FOMO when suddenly a huge purchase of that wall and the coins before it are bought. Third as they have created a momentum in buying they can start offloading their below wall priced coins.

What you said is what I mean't, but maybe I articulated it badly. I mean't someone put up that wall to start people panic selling into the sneaky unnoticeable laddered small buy orders he secretly put up.

Unfortunately for him the market is so bullish that it soon became obvious someone would buy his wall if he left it up for long. His cunning plan failed.


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June 20, 2017, 11:57:56 PM

He bought his own wall, don't you see? The wall is only "fake" because it is owned by the one that buys it.
I realize this tactic might be strange but several of these exchanges have fees that are based on volume, and when one's fee is at a minimum one can afford to buy/sell into their own walls.

When these walls are created they are to induce a certain mindset. First people will place their sell orders below the wall price(explained in previous post). Second they inflict a panic FOMO when suddenly a huge purchase of that wall and the coins before it are bought. Third as they have created a momentum in buying they can start offloading their below wall priced coins.

What you said is what I mean't, but maybe I articulated it badly. I mean't someone put up that wall to start people panic selling into the sneaky unnoticeable laddered small buy orders he secretly put up.

Unfortunately for him the market is so bullish that it soon became obvious someone would buy his wall if he left it up for long. His cunning plan failed.





im am the kool aid man BTCBTCBTCBTC~ there is no wallzzz Cool
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June 21, 2017, 12:06:30 AM

Wow, just wow. What slime.

Pity the fools who got sucked in. Stay away from altcoins without a doing a lot of research first.

Rather short on pity. It does highlight the levels of irrational exuberance currently in the market however.
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June 21, 2017, 12:09:19 AM

On the other hand, you seem to be assuming that there is some kind of clogging of the network that goes beyond spamming.
Is it possible that seg wit might address some of the spamming? 
However, I understand that down the road, spamming might resume because there may be some folks who remain intent on creating the impression that 2mb is actually needed - even with the implementation of segwit.

"touché"

first section : normal P2P transactions.
last section : PUMP.

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June 21, 2017, 12:25:40 AM

On the other hand, you seem to be assuming that there is some kind of clogging of the network that goes beyond spamming.
Is it possible that seg wit might address some of the spamming? 
However, I understand that down the road, spamming might resume because there may be some folks who remain intent on creating the impression that 2mb is actually needed - even with the implementation of segwit.

"touché"

first section : normal P2P transactions.
last section : PUMP.



Where did that chart come from? I have been searching for a service providing mempool chart like that for a long time.
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June 21, 2017, 12:33:50 AM

Knots.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8550
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June 21, 2017, 01:20:13 AM

Segwit2x is a trap : why would you want a 2Mb Block size and 6Mb witness signature ... ?

Because asicboost and others miners industries tricks need this size (of block) to avoid the result of the initial SegWit limitation (limitation for miners, not for the nodes ...).

I prefer SegWit right now with 1Mb Block size and 3Mb witness signatures ...
We need more throughput. Period. You got a better solution, code it and release it into the wild.

Don't be ridiculous.

There is no emergency here, and even the clearing up of the bitcoin blockchain in the past few days should go to show that the month long spam attack was a scam.   There are folks who were directing their mining power at attacking the bitcoin network, and maybe that has become less effective and expensive?  Anyhow they have temporarily ceased the bullshit attack shenanigans and we are getting decent processing times and fees, again.  At least for the moment.
Are you disagreeing that we need more throughput? Yes or no, wordy one.

I've already asked him a tl;dr everytime he posts, until then I just skip what he writes...
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June 21, 2017, 01:24:31 AM


Don't be ridiculous: We need more throughput. And If I were to spam the network I would use non Segwit tx's even if Segwit is implemented. Or maybe I would use Segwit TX's as the signatures doesn't count for the TX fee.

Why is it so hard for people on the same boat (long on BTC) to row in the same fucking direction?



Why do we need to row in the same direction?

We have a difference of opinion about whether something is needed or not.  I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but I can still give my opinion and my opinion can differ, no?

By the way, I am not alone in my opinion, and there are a lot of smart technical people in the bitcoin space who have a similar opinion to me.


Wait, What? You really asking why do we need to row in the same direction? Because we are gonna fucking sink if we don't!

Really, I prefer Segwit over Blocksize increase as Segwit is a real scaling solution and not a linear increase, BUT... If we were all agree to one solution or the other I would accept to row in that direction. It's avoiding sinking what counts here... and now we have a solution that should reasonably please most parties (Segwit +`reasonable 2MB blocksize increase that, even if you think we don't need it yet we will in near future).

If this compromise doesn't work (and I am now reasonably confident it will) then nothing will and we would be basically fucked up.

I will always prefer a not so bad agreement with an almost unanimous consensus than a "better" but contentious one.



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June 21, 2017, 01:33:25 AM

On other news: Segwit2x signaling has just reached 80% for the last 144blocks (24 hours).... and growing.
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June 21, 2017, 01:56:39 AM

and the propaganda continues

it was good to see it disappear in the run up to 2900

now big push to drop price

but bitcoin like



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June 21, 2017, 02:01:19 AM


Don't be ridiculous: We need more throughput. And If I were to spam the network I would use non Segwit tx's even if Segwit is implemented. Or maybe I would use Segwit TX's as the signatures doesn't count for the TX fee.

Why is it so hard for people on the same boat (long on BTC) to row in the same fucking direction?



Why do we need to row in the same direction?

We have a difference of opinion about whether something is needed or not.  I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but I can still give my opinion and my opinion can differ, no?

By the way, I am not alone in my opinion, and there are a lot of smart technical people in the bitcoin space who have a similar opinion to me.


Wait, What? You really asking why do we need to row in the same direction? Because we are gonna fucking sink if we don't!
Yeah right.  Another Chicken little?




Really, I prefer Segwit over Blocksize increase as Segwit is a real scaling solution and not a linear increase, BUT... If we were all agree to one solution or the other I would accept to row in that direction.

Don't be pie in the sky.  You are not going to get everyone to agree.  That is not how a decentralized system (or humans) work.

It's avoiding sinking what counts here...

Bitcoin is not sinking, and bitcoin is not broken.

Sure there are various tweaks that can make bitcoin better, but there is no emergency death situation as you seem to want to argue.





 and now we have a solution that should reasonably please most parties (Segwit +`reasonable 2MB blocksize increase that, even if you think we don't need it yet we will in near future).

I thought that I already got a consession from you that the first step is Segwit?  So, yeah the second and third steps might happen, but you gotta do the first step before you get to the second step... so even though the odds of the second step might be pretty decent, the second step is not inevitable, as you seem to continue to suggest .. and maybe you have some kind of misreading about what has to happen in order for the second step to take place... and in any event it does not seem to be inevitable.. so why do you keep getting ahead of yourself?  one step at a time, no?   

By the way, it looks like there are people who will be working on testing the second step and going through various kinds of work to carry out the second step, but that still does not make the second step inevitable, even if it has decent chances to occur. 

And, stop suggesting what I want, because I am only calling the situation as I see it, and this is not a matter about what I want or do not want, but instead a description of community dynamics and sentiment about the 2mb (second step) aspect of the segwit2x.




If this compromise doesn't work (and I am now reasonably confident it will) then nothing will and we would be basically fucked up.

I don't know why you are getting so worked up about this?  It seems pretty likely that the first step is going to occur, and even if the second step were to fall through, we still have the first step... so cross that bridge when you get there rather than getting worked up and suggesting that the whole thing might be a failure if the second step were not to occur.



I will always prefer a not so bad agreement with an almost unanimous consensus than a "better" but contentious one.


Well, it looks like you are in luck and there appears to be a largely non-contentious solution on the horizon... right?  It looks like the current variation of segwit2x that allows a softforking of segwit first is gaining pretty likely success and support.


80.6% support on coindance 24 hour marker right now.

https://coin.dance/blocks
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