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Question: When $60K? (EST time zone)
Feb. 21 - 7 (5.7%)
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Feb. 23 - 13 (10.7%)
Feb. 24 - 9 (7.4%)
Feb. 25 - 8 (6.6%)
Feb. 26 - 9 (7.4%)
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After March - 14 (11.5%)
Never - 8 (6.6%)
Total Voters: 122

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25183151 times)
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AlexGR
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June 21, 2017, 05:40:49 AM

Also, Bitcoin is not broken, that's right... And I don't know enough about blockchains as I do about networks and most networks that exceed 80-90% capacity are bound to severe issues. We would need to reduce that congestion to 50% to be safe. Segwit will largely help in the long term, a blocksize increase can aleviate some of the issues right now.

Let's say you run the network of a company and it has 10gbps - and you are at 10-30% use. This line costs you 10 grand per month.

I flood your line (externally) by attacking it (DDOS) to 100% use all the time. Will you upgrade to 100 gbps and take your bill to 5-7x just because someone is DDOSing you? And if I do that again and again, not even 1 tbps will save you - but if you follow the upgrade logic due to DDOS, your company will be bankrupt.

Blockchain use is similar. Even if blocks were 10x tomorrow morning, they would be full by very low fee txs. Even if they were 100x in size, someone running a script can fill them up - and the fees will be pretty low, as there will be no fee pressure. Still individual nodes go bankrupt as they can't sustain storage and bandwidth costs scaling to 10-100x.
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June 21, 2017, 05:54:37 AM

Looking at the few blocks not supporting SegWit2x shows that it is mainly small pools that didn't indicate anything and slush pool which indicates support for SegWit.

https://coin.dance/blocks

I was going over the bitcoin mailing list, until I read gmaxwell's post:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014633.html

Quote
...
Miners can simply continuing signaling segwit, which will leave them
at least soft-fork compatible with BIP148 and BIP91 (and god knows
what "segwit2x" is since they keep changing the actual definition and
do not have a specification
; but last I saw the near-term behavior the
same as BIP91 but with a radically reduced activation window, so the
story would be the same there in the near term).
...

...

Quote
...

I think this is somewhat naive and sounds a lot like the repeat of the
previously debunked "XT" and "Classic" hysteria.

There is a reason that segwit2x is pretty much unanimously rejected by
the technical community.
  And just like with XT/Classic/Unlimited
you'll continue to see a strong correlation with people who are
unwilling and unable to keep updating the software at an acceptable
level of quality-- esp. because the very founding on their fork is
predicated on discarding those properties
.


If miners want to go off and create an altcoin-- welp, thats something
they can always do,  and nothing about that will force anyone to go
along with it.


As far as prevent a chain split goes, all those things
(148/91/segwit2x(per today)) effectively guarantee a chainsplit
-- so I
don't think that holds.

Sounds like a total shit-storm...

Fuck all those fuckers who want to fork the shit out of bitcoin.

Core devs support for Segwit 2x (check on the right): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that having a single chain is more important than breaking up bitcoin in (at least 2) forks, possibly 4 or 5 - some with different PoWs, or different properties.

When the situation gets too messy with all the crap (uasf, segwit, segwit2x, classic/xt/bu bullshit), perhaps we should start with a clean slate to deal with scaling. If there's no consensus from the technical community, the miners and the economic entities, perhaps it's for a good reason...
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June 21, 2017, 06:21:54 AM

Price dipped

Who want to Get in buy now!!!!

Last of the V8s
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June 21, 2017, 06:52:27 AM

I was going over the bitcoin mailing list, until I read gmaxwell's post:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014633.html
 

Fuck all those fuckers who want to fork the shit out of bitcoin.

Core devs support for Segwit 2x (check on the right): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know that having a single chain is more important than breaking up bitcoin in (at least 2) forks, possibly 4 or 5 - some with different PoWs, or different properties.

When the situation gets too messy with all the crap (uasf, segwit, segwit2x, classic/xt/bu bullshit), perhaps we should start with a clean slate to deal with scaling. If there's no consensus from the technical community, the miners and the economic entities, perhaps it's for a good reason...


That's just maxwell showing he doesn't understand what's going on and being a drama llama.

Read on, and the others gently explain things to him, until https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014638.html

... where he makes the very valid point that someone is wrong on the internet, and then comes up with a proposal and a question that - you guessed it - are already being worked on.
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June 21, 2017, 06:59:19 AM

Nobody should be ruling this decisions other than the full nodes.

The whole idea of Bitcoin was to put power in the hands of "individuals". Back in that time, the miners & nodes were all individuals. Now since the mining has become centralised in the hands of few giant pools, it shouldn't give them power to do whatever the fuck they want. If the power is taken from the individuals, the whole ideology is gone for toss.

Let the nodes rule the world.
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June 21, 2017, 09:05:05 AM

Core devs support for Segwit 2x (check on the right): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

I'm not sure how anyone could be bullish right now after clicking that because the situation resembles segwit2x being some type of rogue china fork while there's also a big head and shoulders pattern at the same time.  As for the head and shoulders pattern, markets don't actually exist and the price will just go in whichever direction there is someone to squeeze whether it's a long or short.  So if someone goes in heavy shorting, it will go up.  If someone bets the farm on a long, it will crash.
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June 21, 2017, 09:16:07 AM

Nobody should be ruling this decisions other than the full nodes.

The whole idea of Bitcoin was to put power in the hands of "individuals". Back in that time, the miners & nodes were all individuals. Now since the mining has become centralised in the hands of few giant pools, it shouldn't give them power to do whatever the fuck they want. If the power is taken from the individuals, the whole ideology is gone for toss.

Let the nodes rule the world.

Yes, that is exactly how I see bitcoin aswell. But as always, with money there's corruption.

But I see that new opportunities & platforms are popping up, which in a big scheme of things, does give the power pack to the people, because one can just choose to move  their ssets, while not exiting crypto world. = more freedom, more privacy. Whether Bitcoin stands strong, or gets taken over by corruptants and loses it's beauty.

So it will be a great innovation either way. ,
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June 21, 2017, 09:24:42 AM

If you think going from 90% to less than 40% market dominance is not an emergency...

Why do people bother posting these things?

It's not like Bitcoin is hurt by people buying other coins as well. The people buying shitcoins might be hurt by it but Bitcoin will not. After all, it started on 100% "dominance" so the only way is down. Why make up some controversy here?

The also the fact that "market dominance" is completely made up. It is based on "market cap" which is a real word but completely irrelevant to Bitcoin. People don't speak about the market cap of the US dollar or even of gold. Because it would be irrelevant.

Then there's also the fact that the majority of altcoins aren't even traded at any remotely reputable exchange. People sell a token for a dollar, then make another million tokens which nobody wants to buy and somehow that counts as a million dollar "market cap". Which somehow would unseat Bitcoin "dominance factor". It's ridicolous on the face of it and it's really tiresome when people pretend to take it seriously in some misguided attempt to pumpt altcoins.
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June 21, 2017, 09:26:21 AM

Bitcoin price rising as of now it's been a good one signnnnnn hehehehehe.  Am happy to see bitcoin price rising
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June 21, 2017, 09:37:42 AM

Nothing suggested by Jihan and Co should be accepted! Period.
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June 21, 2017, 10:24:39 AM

Why do people bother posting these things?

It's not like Bitcoin is hurt by people buying other coins as well. The people buying shitcoins might be hurt by it but Bitcoin will not. After all, it started on 100% "dominance" so the only way is down. Why make up some controversy here?

The also the fact that "market dominance" is completely made up. It is based on "market cap" which is a real word but completely irrelevant to Bitcoin. People don't speak about the market cap of the US dollar or even of gold. Because it would be irrelevant.

Then there's also the fact that the majority of altcoins aren't even traded at any remotely reputable exchange. People sell a token for a dollar, then make another million tokens which nobody wants to buy and somehow that counts as a million dollar "market cap". Which somehow would unseat Bitcoin "dominance factor". It's ridicolous on the face of it and it's really tiresome when people pretend to take it seriously in some misguided attempt to pumpt altcoins.

Some seem remarkably dismissive of the shift - does this reflect its unimportance, or their defence mechanism against a situation they were sure would not occur? I observe every imaginable way to paint the obvious as what it isn't.

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June 21, 2017, 10:59:04 AM

Why do people bother posting these things?

It's not like Bitcoin is hurt by people buying other coins as well. The people buying shitcoins might be hurt by it but Bitcoin will not. After all, it started on 100% "dominance" so the only way is down. Why make up some controversy here?

The also the fact that "market dominance" is completely made up. It is based on "market cap" which is a real word but completely irrelevant to Bitcoin. People don't speak about the market cap of the US dollar or even of gold. Because it would be irrelevant.

Then there's also the fact that the majority of altcoins aren't even traded at any remotely reputable exchange. People sell a token for a dollar, then make another million tokens which nobody wants to buy and somehow that counts as a million dollar "market cap". Which somehow would unseat Bitcoin "dominance factor". It's ridicolous on the face of it and it's really tiresome when people pretend to take it seriously in some misguided attempt to pumpt altcoins.

Some seem remarkably dismissive of the shift - does this reflect its unimportance, or their defence mechanism against a situation they were sure would not occur? I observe every imaginable way to paint the obvious as what it isn't.


let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 
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June 21, 2017, 11:06:35 AM
Last edit: June 21, 2017, 11:19:38 AM by gentlemand

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area.  

I think what people aren't really paying attention to is that there are plenty of alts that aim to have nothing to do with any of those services. That being the case they can easily surpass BTC in all metrics.

The main thing that seems to worry people is that alts will take the money that they want to go on BTC instead. Maybe that money isn't interested in it in the slightest. Most of it's chasing more dollars. More dollars were delivered via alts recently.
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June 21, 2017, 11:44:31 AM




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June 21, 2017, 12:43:19 PM

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 

Good list, but you missed a few more more.

let's look at what the MSM is obsessed about writing about (Bitcoin) and creating FUD about, and not all other altcoins.

let's look at what the governments of the world are obsessed with trying to regulate (Bitcoin) with little to no mention of all other altcoins.

let's look at what ANYONE is trying to get an ETF approved for (Bitcoin) and NO other altcoin.

1. First they ignore you <----- all altcoins are here, and 99.99% will stay here forever
2. Then they laugh at you <----- 0.01% altcoins will make it here and stay here forever
3. Then they fight you <----- Bitcoin is here now
4. Then you win
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June 21, 2017, 12:56:26 PM

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 

Good list, but you missed a few more more.

let's look at what the MSM is obsessed about writing about (Bitcoin) and creating FUD about, and not all other altcoins.

let's look at what the governments of the world are obsessed with trying to regulate (Bitcoin) with little to no mention of all other altcoins.

let's look at what ANYONE is trying to get an ETF approved for (Bitcoin) and NO other altcoin.

1. First they ignore you <----- all altcoins are here, and 99.99% will stay here forever
2. Then they laugh at you <----- 0.01% altcoins will make it here and stay here forever
3. Then they fight you <----- Bitcoin is here now
4. Then you win

I consider altcoins a scaling solution. Profoundly censorship-resistant transfers of value are a serious business; there will always be plenty of new tokens out there for micro-transactions and shameless speculation. Every Doge will have its day.
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June 21, 2017, 01:22:45 PM

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 

Good list, but you missed a few more more.

let's look at what the MSM is obsessed about writing about (Bitcoin) and creating FUD about, and not all other altcoins.

let's look at what the governments of the world are obsessed with trying to regulate (Bitcoin) with little to no mention of all other altcoins.

let's look at what ANYONE is trying to get an ETF approved for (Bitcoin) and NO other altcoin.

1. First they ignore you <----- all altcoins are here, and 99.99% will stay here forever
2. Then they laugh at you <----- 0.01% altcoins will make it here and stay here forever
3. Then they fight you <----- Bitcoin is here now
4. Then you win

I consider altcoins a scaling solution. Profoundly censorship-resistant transfers of value are a serious business; there will always be plenty of new tokens out there for micro-transactions and shameless speculation. Every Doge will have its day.

I'd expect a sharp dot.com like wash out the next few months - (years).
There is not much room for 1k coins most like we have Amazon, Google, Ebay, Apple,Facebook. That's the market and off you go.
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June 21, 2017, 01:45:00 PM

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 

i agree but you forgot one of the most important factor: reliability.
an altcoin which is congested easily and its blockchain fails is not reliable enough for any kind of usage.
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June 21, 2017, 02:27:43 PM

let´s look at other factors of dominance, not market cap (which is so easily manipulated, that it does not proof anything).

let´s look at how many goods are bought with bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look at how many merchants accept bitcoin compared to all other altcoins.

let´s look what crypto is used for cross border payments.

let´s look how many bitcoin-start-ups are existing compared to all other altcoins.

i bet in every single comparison, bitcoin dominance is still in the 80-90% area. 

Good list, but you missed a few more more.

let's look at what the MSM is obsessed about writing about (Bitcoin) and creating FUD about, and not all other altcoins.

let's look at what the governments of the world are obsessed with trying to regulate (Bitcoin) with little to no mention of all other altcoins.

let's look at what ANYONE is trying to get an ETF approved for (Bitcoin) and NO other altcoin.

1. First they ignore you <----- all altcoins are here, and 99.99% will stay here forever
2. Then they laugh at you <----- 0.01% altcoins will make it here and stay here forever
3. Then they fight you <----- Bitcoin is here now
4. Then you win

I consider altcoins a scaling solution. Profoundly censorship-resistant transfers of value are a serious business; there will always be plenty of new tokens out there for micro-transactions and shameless speculation. Every Doge will have its day.

I'd expect a sharp dot.com like wash out the next few months - (years).
There is not much room for 1k coins most like we have Amazon, Google, Ebay, Apple,Facebook. That's the market and off you go.

I'd expect nothing less.
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June 21, 2017, 03:02:15 PM

CaRMageddon!

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2017/06/kr1086-keiser-report-carmageddon/

Could this be the beginning of the end?

Bullish for Crypto!
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