Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Last of the V8s]

Jaysus people don't buy all the bitcoins or there'll be nothing left for the Wall Street fraudsters.

[OdalvHacked]

Why are you reacting so emotionally?  You have held bitcoin for a long time, and so you would have equal coins on both the Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash chains.  If Bitcoin evolves as peer-to-peer digital cash, with low fees and reliable confirmation, you win; if Bitcoin evolves as digital gold, with high fees and transaction friction, you win too.

I believe in the original vision for Bitcoin as described in the white paper: as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.  I am working to help shape bitcoin to that vision and will continue to do so.

Could I be wrong?  Sure.  Maybe it actually is good to have $20 fees (soon to be $50) and a network that can only process 3 transactions per seconds (one thousand times less than Visa).  

And that is why I hold both BTC and BCH.  

i react emotionally because YOU play games with my live savings. why the fuck aren´t you creating just another altcoin to realize your great vision? why tamper with bitcoin? if you are not happy with it, leave it. well, you sort of did, but you try to steal as much juice of it as possible, trying to hurt bitcoin as much as possible.

now you expecting me to hug you for it? your game is called hijacking and it is evil.

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth, and then by fundamentally changing the structure of the BTC coin by adding segwit.  

Bitcoin Cash represents the original vision for Bitcoin as peer-to-peer electronic cash.  I will continue work to realize this vision, and help resist the hijack attempt by Blockstream and Core.

You are stupid. I can only advice you to sell all your bitcoins and buy CASH.  (ooouch, are you refusing?, CASH is not as good as BTC ?)

[Ibian]

take hash power away from Core in "bursts" to drive up network congestion so that the problem with small blocks became more obvious

We still need more throughput. Tactics aside the point is valid.

Exploiting a generally known problem in a system to promote another system is by no means trying to improve the original. But is simply marketing the
other system.  So claiming it is to improve the original is misleading when it is just competing the original.

So fix the problem. Do it a year ago.

[JayJuanGee]

good opportunity to buy more. i dont know where the bottom will be so i'm buying 0.05 at every $300 drop

JJ will be proud of you...

That is exactly what you supposed to be doing....     

[Ibian]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

[Wekkel]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

[Last of the V8s]

which is more odious: Peter Thiel or the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5077575/The-world-s-floating-city-set-2020-build.html

[Ibian]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

[becoin]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

[JayJuanGee]

Significant dump this is, it’s not going to get much worse though, surely. I hope 6k stays strong.

Set up my last buying order at 6k. Hope you are right.

O.k.  You are partially correct in buying on the way down; however,  you do not want to run out of money merely based on a 25% to 30% price correction.

You should have enough money to buy down to about a 60% correction or perhaps more.  However, it is quite likely that 60% corrections are very infrequent, yet we frequently have to be prepared for such corrections, and it is even better if you are able to prepare for even a larger price correction - such as 80%, which should be even more rare and perhaps only occurring every few years, at most - especially in what is likely an s-curve adoption period of bitcoin, right?

[Torque]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

<Sigh> Ibian, this has been covered extensively. You can't just trivialize and hand wave it all away as a simple block size increase will solve everything and still retain network stability while maintaining mining decentralization. Also, see BCH for example of block size increase trainwreck nightmare scenario.
Here's some reading for ya:
https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

[Ibian]

... slight derail here as I'm syncing the Bitcoin Gold client on another machine.

https://yobit.net/en/trade/BTG/BTC (Is that even the right ticker ?!)

I guess this is safe to start dumping now ?

They got replay protection or whatever? I'm considering just letting this one pass by, given all the uncertainty about the damn thing.

[Ibian]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

I did not invent aristotelian philosophy. Aristotle did. 2500 years ago. And some of the ideas of he and his contemporaries are part of our culture.

I likewise did not invent electric lighting, and neither did you, but if you insist on inventing everything you use then go ahead and turn off the power and start from scratch.

Incidentally, animals are delicious.

[Wekkel]

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

Bigger blocks does not make the sum that comprises Bitcoin necessarily better. One could make a Bitcoin clone with 2second block time and call it better or with 1GB blocks for that matter. But the trade off involved cannot be ignored if contemplating about this diligently. The BCH ‘solution’ does not scale, only temporarily postponed the issue.

And finally, but that is just personal, I do not like how these boys behaved themselves in this matter. Bitcoin Gold on the other hand....

[Ibian]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Yes.

[Ibian]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

<Sigh> Ibian, this has been covered extensively. You can't just trivialize and hand wave it all away as a simple block size increase will solve everything and still retain network stability while maintaining mining decentralization. Also, see BCH for example of block size increase trainwreck nightmare scenario.
Here's some reading for ya:
https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

The main difference is network effect. If we started from the same place, it is not obvious that the segwit chain would have won. It is simply that telling the world that their bitcoins are no longer bitcoins would be an even bigger disaster than everything else that has happened up to this point.

And segwit is still not enough. Not even close. We need both, or something even better than both.

[Peter R]

Bcash cost of production (difficulty) is now being slashed by 20% per block for the next 6 blocks. Expect miners to follow cost of production slavishly. Forking guys have no idea what they have unleashed ... it will become apparent soon now.

Yes, the existence of BCH will destabilize BCT mining.  

Everyone knows that at equilibrium, if BCH has 1/10th the value of BTC, that the hash power mining BCH will be 1/10th that mining BTC.  

What is less obvious what happens when the system is not in equilibrium. Imagine that the market reprices BCH 100% higher and BTC 10% lower.  What is the expected distribution of hash power now assuming short-term profit-maximizing miners?  

The answer is "most of it will be mining BCH." Because the difficulty adjusts only very slowly (every 2016 blocks) BCH becomes twice as profitable to mine as BTC.  Hash-per-hash miners would earn double by mining BCH.  This continues until the difficulty reset comes when BCH would go "limit up" (4X), when most miners would leave BCH back for BTC.  BCH's difficulty would slowly ratchet back down due to its fast difficulty adjustment and the process would later repeat.  

What this suggest is that at times when BCH is more profitable to mine and the hash rate migrates to BCH, the average block time for BTC will increase significantly and BTC's already slow and expensive transactions will become much more so.  

What do you know, Marcus, it worked.

[becoin]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Interesting idea. Thank you.

Bitcoin Cash == unlimited food and plenty of green grass, just expand blocksize by moving to new pastures, eat as much as you can
Bitcoin == limited food in the ecosystem, you have to enrich it to expand, don't eat more than you can afford

[itod]

Here's some reading for ya:
https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

Best bigblock analyses ever. Can't be recommended enough.

[Ibian]

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

Bigger blocks does not make the sum that comprises Bitcoin necessarily better. One could make a Bitcoin clone with 2second block time and call it better or with 1GB blocks for that matter. But the trade off involved cannot be ignored if contemplating about this diligently. The BCH ‘solution’ does not scale, only temporarily postponed the issue.

And finally, but that is just personal, I do not like how these boys behaved themselves in this matter. Bitcoin Gold on the other hand....

We need more throughput. It is that simple. We have segwit now, and it is not enough. If you have a better alternative than segwit+bigger blocks, feel free to share. Clonecoins would not even matter if we already had the benefit they chose to incorporate.