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November 19, 2017, 03:42:57 AM *
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Question: Nov. 30 Price Forecast:
Below $5,500 - 32 (13.3%)
$5,500 to $6,000 - 12 (5%)
$6,000 to $6,500 - 8 (3.3%)
$6,500 to $7,000 - 20 (8.3%)
$7,000 to $7,500 - 21 (8.8%)
$7,500 to $8,000 - 22 (9.2%)
$8,000 to $8,500 - 33 (13.8%)
Over $8,500 - 92 (38.3%)
Total Voters: 240

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 19679608 times)
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mymenace
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November 08, 2017, 08:50:59 PM

The tx fees suck because the value is so high

I did 6 btc tx yesterday with electrum using dynamic fees within 2 blocks. They averaged 3$ each.
Is that too damn high?

In fact, yes.
Imagine when millions of people are opening and closing LN channels or executing smart contracts.
It is not my intention to spread FUD, but we have an eventual problems between our hands.
I really hope bitcoin can scale offchain, as onchain.

How often does one open and close a credit card in their lifetime?

This is interesting, I hope everyone realizes

Bitcoin is built and tested it works


Here is the part where everybody else comes in

Build on top of it....

Build around it

Build with it

You can do almost anything to make it cheaper, faster, more efficient

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Gab0
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November 08, 2017, 08:51:19 PM

The tx fees suck because the value is so high

I did 6 btc tx yesterday with electrum using dynamic fees within 2 blocks. They averaged 3$ each.
Is that too damn high?

In fact, yes.
Imagine when millions of people are opening and closing LN channels or executing smart contracts.
It is not my intention to spread FUD, but we have an eventual problems between our hands.
I really hope bitcoin can scale offchain, as onchain.

How often does one open and close a credit card in their lifetime?

I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?
If a company creates an smart contract for an ICO, should not every certain period of time liquidate the coins in the blockchain?

Anyway ... if millions of people only open and close one LN channel, it is already an overwhelmingly bigger burden than the current one.
TheFlynn49
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November 08, 2017, 08:51:45 PM

^good point, who's still signalling?

BTCC, AntPool Bixin BTC.top GBMiners BitClub still signal it.
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 08:53:33 PM

^good point, who's still signalling?

BTCC, AntPool Bixin BTC.top GBMiners BitClub still signal it.


ok so I guess the future market will just bleed down slowly as each one drops off.
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November 08, 2017, 08:58:45 PM

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609408/quantum-computers-pose-imminent-threat-to-bitcoin-security/

Their articles are usually on point but this one seems like fear mongering.

Quantum will kill all hash functions. the thing is we are still > 10 years from home quantum. Currently, it only works in the lab near absolute 0

edit: I a word

I just thought ... If quantum computing represents a potential problem, can it also be a possible solution to scaling problems?
Arriemoller
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November 08, 2017, 09:00:58 PM

It sounds like you must Enjoy having Blockstream's  dick shoved down your throat while your paying $100+ to move your coins off an exchange.

Tell your grandma to buy Bitcoin, it's a great investment. I'm sure she will love the part where she has to calculate a priority fee to pay based on the size of her transaction.

For everything else, there's Bitcoin Cash.

What sort of idiot is in bitcoin to spend them in b/s?
It's just you.

Yeah, because the thousands of people who have disconnected themselves from the banks and from FIAT don't exist.

Legacy Bitcoin has been taken over by corporate interests that want to prevent BTC from scaling, thus removing competition and ensuring their monopolies will continue uncontested. No one is going to want to pay $20, 30, 40, 50$+ fees to make a payment or just to move coins. Thus, Legacy Bitcoin has truly become a Banking Settlement Layer - with fees comparable to a bank wire, and confirmation times comparable to a bank wire. This is Bitcoin now. Enjoy it. It's what you wanted.

So use another coin then, why are you stuck on bitcoin. The Zimbabweans use both bitcoin and dash. One for savings and one for shopping. Works fine, and no banks involved.
TheFlynn49
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November 08, 2017, 09:03:28 PM

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609408/quantum-computers-pose-imminent-threat-to-bitcoin-security/

Their articles are usually on point but this one seems like fear mongering.

Quantum will kill all hash functions. the thing is we are still > 10 years from home quantum. Currently, it only works in the lab near absolute 0

edit: I a word

I just thought ... If quantum computing represents a potential problem, can it also be a possible solution to scaling problems?

not "10 years from home quantum" but "10 years from quantum being a treat for bitcoin"

and we all know how accurate are 10-years predictions. If you tried to program a quantum computer only once, you know it's never gonna happen.
Dabs
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November 08, 2017, 09:09:02 PM

The tx fees suck because the value is so high

I did 6 btc tx yesterday with electrum using dynamic fees within 2 blocks. They averaged 3$ each.
Is that too damn high?
Have you ever done an international wire?

I've done plenty of wires. The fees are high relative to how they were a few years ago. I am not complaining about the fees, everyone else is.

My favorite transactions are the ones valued above $100k USD, sent to 50 different addresses, costing about $10 in tx fees, and confirming within the hour (or two; doesn't matter). But to me, they are all just bitcoins and satoshis.
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November 08, 2017, 09:11:56 PM

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609408/quantum-computers-pose-imminent-threat-to-bitcoin-security/

Their articles are usually on point but this one seems like fear mongering.

Quantum will kill all hash functions. the thing is we are still > 10 years from home quantum. Currently, it only works in the lab near absolute 0

edit: I a word

But it doesnt have to be the new home standard to become an issue.

Just 1 group of people with the intention and the hardware, but will there be more lucrative targets? and the wider  Cost/Risk/Reward relationship keeping it at bay for now.
arklan
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November 08, 2017, 09:16:10 PM

Well holy shit. Didn't see that coming. Segwit2x dropped out...
jojo69
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November 08, 2017, 09:21:34 PM

By the time we have quantum attacks we will have quantum miners. 

It's not fucking magic guys.
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November 08, 2017, 09:22:50 PM

There was a link someone posted recently that was a cashing out bitcoin plan generator.

You entered your total, how much you wanted to end with, hoe much you wanted to sell etc and it gave you a target.

Anyone have a link?
thisisntbic
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November 08, 2017, 09:26:31 PM

http://bitcoinsavingsplan.com/

This?
explorer
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November 08, 2017, 09:30:53 PM

There was a link someone posted recently that was a cashing out bitcoin plan generator.

You entered your total, how much you wanted to end with, hoe much you wanted to sell etc and it gave you a target.

Anyone have a link?


Another one to play with.

http://xzist.org/amazing-bitcoin-retirement-fund-calculator/
jojo69
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November 08, 2017, 09:57:40 PM

We now return you to your regularly scheduled bull market banter.
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 10:00:09 PM

This kid is like 5 years from a total nervous breakdown..
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/928172344631115776
Remind me!

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November 08, 2017, 10:01:25 PM

Imagine when millions of people are opening and closing LN channels or executing smart contracts.
It is not my intention to spread FUD, but we have an eventual problems between our hands.
I really hope bitcoin can scale offchain, as onchain.

How often does one open and close a credit card in their lifetime?
Actually the situation is more akin to a debit card. The max amount (channel money capacity) is low. And each topping of the card must be done with on-chain transactions. At least, this is what I found the only time I read LN's tech spec. It was a while ago, and things might have changed already.

I'm pretty sure that production updates to the LN protocol will solve all these issues: channel (money) capacity is a simple constant in the source code, being kept low on purpose in the experimental phase for security's sake. Refilling (topping) a depleted channel would be trickier, and I haven't yet figured out how it could be done.

If anyone has pointers, I'd be glad to read up.
marcus_of_augustus
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November 08, 2017, 10:07:37 PM

We now return you to your regularly scheduled bull market banter.

yeah! ... just as soon as chopstick and gabo take their FUDtoyz and go and play in the FUDtoyz sandpit ... over there https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/ here https://forum.bitcoin.com/ and bizarro-world WO https://bitco.in/forum/threads/wall-observer.27/

it's kind of lucky (too weird coincidence?) that ticker BCH also works for BitcoinChina BCHina
d_eddie
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November 08, 2017, 10:17:32 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.
marcus_of_augustus
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November 08, 2017, 10:21:00 PM

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