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Question: June 30 24-Hour High:
<$4,000 - 10 (7.6%)
$4,000-$4,500 - 0 (0%)
$4,500-$5,000 - 8 (6.1%)
$5,000-$5,500 - 7 (5.3%)
$5,500-$6,000 - 16 (12.1%)
$6,000-$6,500 - 14 (10.6%)
$6,500-$7,000 - 10 (7.6%)
$7,000-$7,500 - 13 (9.8%)
$7,500-$8,000 - 17 (12.9%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 11 (8.3%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 4 (3%)
$9,000-$9,500 - 0 (0%)
$9,500-$10,000 - 2 (1.5%)
>$10,000 - 20 (15.2%)
Total Voters: 132

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 20306545 times)
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itod
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November 08, 2017, 11:42:33 PM

I have a question, related to the bitcoin incentive system. What will happen in the long term, when the reward for each block decreases, and a large part of the transactions are made out of the chain?

It will not matter what will happen, the "root" of the value will always be a chain. if they want to raise the value of business they do off-chain they will always have to raise the value of the chain first.
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November 08, 2017, 11:55:34 PM

We can celebrate, but let's not gloat guys.

I, for one, praise the S2X camp for achieving the internal consensus to pull back from the brink.

We will eventually, in a safe and orderly manner, address their concerns regarding scaling.

In the end, they behaved like rational adults.  Perhaps we can have nice things.


You are too nice....  Roll Eyes


Giving too much credit to confirmed terrorists.    Tongue
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November 09, 2017, 12:01:44 AM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.
It's still peer to peer (no central authority), but not one-to-one. There will be multiple routes. Irregular mesh topology over Tor.

You will open an account (payment channel) with a bank (lightning node hub) which routes your payments where they need to go. The lightning network will certainly evolve to be central hubs routing payments.  These banks (lightning node hubs) will settle on the blockchain when you close your account (payment channel) but otherwise won't really need the blockchain much.

Unless I'm mistaken

Right, not much need for on-chain stuff except opening/closing channels. Or possibly topping them up, I am still not clear on what will happen with "refill" operations as the protocol evolves. The hubs will be "central" only in the sense of "hyperconnected, with lots of money at stake in multiple channels". They won't be able to censor transactions or tamper with the protocol - or even figure out where the coins ultimately go. Hubs can be routed around if desired or necessary. Someone else will get the fees - if any. Not that shabby, is it?

Very tough question for me, how shabby? On the face of it sounds quite cool. But deep down I remain very suspicious of lightning network which stems from my distrust of banks. It feels like a banking layer being plonked down on top of bitcoin with the aim of bypassing hard money constraints that having transactions logged on a blockchain imposses. I have immense dislike of banking system which is what led me to bitcoin in the first place. "Be your own bank" At least having bitcoin as a settlement layer is a constraint of some form. It could be that the system if it does go that way will be a bit like an updated gold standard system whereas gold used to be the settlement layer now it will be bitcoin.
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November 09, 2017, 12:04:58 AM

There's no point in talking about Lightning Networks until we get some actual ones to play with. Until then it's completely pointless conjecture. Ain't no one who knows what they're going to be yet.
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November 09, 2017, 12:07:26 AM



You are too nice....  Roll Eyes



Perhaps, but I think it is important now to take the high road and build a path forward with as broad a consensus as possible.  While actual evil actors may have been at work in this drama, many in the other camp do, in fact, have genuine concerns and believe that they are acting in the best interests of Bitcoin.  I may disagree with them on how we get there, or even on where "there" is, but these people are not the evil ones.

Bitcoin will find it's real enemies, let us not make them out of our friends.
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November 09, 2017, 12:11:08 AM



You are too nice....  Roll Eyes



Perhaps, but I think it is important now to take the high road and build a path forward with as broad a consensus as possible.  While actual evil actors may have been at work in this drama, many in the other camp do, in fact, have genuine concerns and believe that they are acting in the best interests of Bitcoin.  I may disagree with them on how we get there, or even on where "there" is, but these people are not the evil ones.

Bitcoin will find it's real enemies, let us not make them out of our friends.

Another civil war has come to an end. Bygones will be bygones.
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November 09, 2017, 12:22:28 AM

https://medium.com/@bartjellema/why-i-just-bought-90-b2x-bitcoin-segwit2x-futures-f94d0ee13eb9

(You only need to read the title)
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November 09, 2017, 12:25:10 AM


Oh fucking LOL.
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November 09, 2017, 12:27:00 AM

Quote
So if SegWit2X becomes the needed upgrade to Bitcoin it’s trying to be, I walk away with a cool half mil. If not I take maybe a $40k hit. I think my odds are pretty good here, but time will tell.

smh
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November 09, 2017, 12:31:01 AM

Quote
So if SegWit2X becomes the needed upgrade to Bitcoin it’s trying to be, I walk away with a cool half mil. If not I take maybe a $40k hit. I think my odds are pretty good here, but time will tell.

smh

I wonder how one feels when he has forever publicly documented his stupidity. He is probably stabbing Jeff Garzik's voodoo doll the whole day today...
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November 09, 2017, 12:31:10 AM

Ouch
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November 09, 2017, 12:34:57 AM




Listen to Sue: Never bet against the honey badger.
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November 09, 2017, 12:37:58 AM


whaa whaa whaa WHAAAAA!

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November 09, 2017, 12:39:05 AM

We can celebrate, but let's not gloat guys.

I, for one, praise the S2X camp for achieving the internal consensus to pull back from the brink.

We will eventually, in a safe and orderly manner, address their concerns regarding scaling.

In the end, they behaved like rational adults.  Perhaps we can have nice things.


You are too nice....  Roll Eyes


Giving too much credit to confirmed terrorists.    Tongue

Oh now I have to violate forum rules again.

-1
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November 09, 2017, 12:52:05 AM

[edited out]

Good grief! You still going. OK you say I misrepresented your rambling diatribe but conveniently edited it out of this comment. How then is one to judge without searching back pages in the forum to see it? Maybe we just take your word for it that it made sense and was coherent.

If you like, you can click on the above referred-to links or otherwise you can search, if you like or otherwise you can just rely on my representation, whatever you wish.  It is up to you in your own personal discretion.  Oh wait, you have already demonstrated that you do not exercise good judgement in terms of personal discretion.   Tongue



My own comment left in and broken into small segments now has no context, also convenient.

Oh yeah, you said so many profound and important things, but I happened to "edit them out" ... Oh you poor little thing!!!!   You wished to have longer walls of text... poor lil guy, gal or bot....  Roll Eyes



Its almost an admission you know what you wrote was a load of bollocks and that I correctly surmised it.

"almost"   an admission...






NOT







However I prefer instead to just thank you for editing it out, it was bad enough the first time.

Well, you have already proven to be unable to understand any words with more than one sylable or any sentence with more than two ideas.. .and when it comes to paragraphs, I am not sure if you can get past the first one or two sentences, anyhow? 

Maybe some prayer could be helpful in this regard since maybe we are more likely to get divine intervention rather than your actually attempting to engage in active learning measures.   Cry



What else have you got? Bitcoin has certain dynamics that make it different. Oh really. Thanks for enlightening me, how silly of me to not know that.

Yes.. please if you could attempt to learn beyond mere conclusions, then that could be helpful to you and any readers of your simplistic responses.  I am glad that you are at least accepting that you are silly, and perhaps, just perhaps, in the near future, you may engage in some attempts to better understand various ways that bitcoin is differentiated from other coins or forks or alts or whatever..   It does NOT seem likely that you are ready, willing or able to learn from me, and I would prefer someone who actually seems to be trying to learn than to spend time on your irrelevant and quasi-nonsensical and immaterial attempts at interaction with me.  In other words, if you were genuine, then perhaps I might attempt to edumacate you a bit on the ways of the world in which you seem to be struggling to understand some basic frameworks and concepts.



I only mentioned my position in response to your accusations of my being a 'stupid ass big blocker' to illustrate your being wrong on that count. Who the fuck care? Probably noone.

O.k.. Finally you may have made one point that kind of is beginning to make a little bit of sense.




Who the fuck cares about the way in which you sell when the price is going up in 200 dollar blocks but might adjust the amount if the price reaches a new level.



Actually, now you are changing the topic, and surely there are people who care about various buying and selling strategies, and even if there are not people who care, if I care about the contents of my post, then there is some value in that....... Anyhow, you are all over the place with your seemingly largely speculative "who cares" observations, and even the relevance of such to any previous point that was made by anyone  - in other words, you seem to be grasping at straws in a kind of stream of consciousness manner of expressing yourself.   


My guess, noone.


Here, you may be making a point since you are just guessing, and when you guess, your odds of being wrong are like flipping a coin, well depending upon how many possible answers you perceive to be possible, and even then, if you guess, you may not even be able to recognize the possible number of correct answers or that there could be more than one correct answer.




Yet you manage to ramble on paragraphs at a time in painful irrelevant detail. Almost embarrassing really.

And all this because I called bitcoin, bitcoin segwit!


Seems like I was responding to various points brought up by you, even some of the seemingly irrelevant ones, and really I doubt that everything boils down to a simple explanation.  If you continue to attempt to simplify things into one explanation, then your odds of getting the facts wrong and/or the logic increase considerably.  Good luck sorting that out.
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November 09, 2017, 12:58:17 AM



This .gif accurately summarizes today.

What a freaking crazy ride, amirite ?


Yes, you are rite about 93% of the time, and this is one of those times. 

I am so excited that I am about to employ colors and bold and weird choo expressions, - but possibly, I can hold back a bit longer - especially, since even though bitcoin dynamics are looking good, us HODLers and accumulators are not necessarily completely out of any woods, yet.
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November 09, 2017, 01:05:01 AM

Speculators only care about making money, they don't care about destroying the banks or whatever.

Never been known to be the Brightest bunch those speculators...

As is evidenced by how many people here support Crippling Bitcoin for the foreseeable future. A Central Banker's dream come true.

And if everybody who only cares about making money is in Bitcoin, banks will do what exactly? Trade game cards?
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November 09, 2017, 01:06:59 AM


damn... RIP
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November 09, 2017, 01:12:25 AM


degen gambling at its finest. how many big guns pulled out of that market just before issuing their surrender. i wonder
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November 09, 2017, 01:13:19 AM



You are too nice....  Roll Eyes



Perhaps, but I think it is important now to take the high road and build a path forward with as broad a consensus as possible. 

That is bullshit.

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one controls it, and there is no need to compromise with terrorist (which is the part you took out of my prior comment).

Sure, they are human beings, so they deserve some dignity and respect in that regard; however, they do not deserve any sympathy for their engaging in bad and evil acts, and maybe they may need to be burned at the stake because of their evil behavior... I am not sure.  I am not aware of all of the facts, but it seems that several of them have been involved in very egregious and destructive behavior that had the potential to really undermine bitcoin and even perhaps destroy it...

Also, there since there is not an actual legal court to try and convict these folks then probably they should at least be punished by the bitcoin community in various ways... perhaps decentralized and consensus ways, but they are not good people as far as I can tell... but surely I am just one voice, and it is possible that my facts are inadequate in some ways, but at this point, I am not prepared to give them any benefit of the doubt or to reach out some olive branch in order that they can be empowered to engage in more evil conduct.




While actual evil actors may have been at work in this drama, many in the other camp do, in fact, have genuine concerns and believe that they are acting in the best interests of Bitcoin. 

Good things can be ascribed to a lot of evil players.  Probably Hitler (not trying to bring out the pro-nazi crowd) was nice to his dog, but that does not mean that his actions were not worthy of censure.. and punishment.



I may disagree with them on how we get there, or even on where "there" is, but these people are not the evil ones.

We can just disagree here, I supposed.  Based on the evidence that I have right now, it seems that they were engaged in pretty evil conduct... but maybe I am missing a few details, and I doubt it is really worth a battle to go down this path, right?



Bitcoin will find it's real enemies, let us not make them out of our friends.

O.k.  I am about to let bygones be bygones, and you seem to be convoluting this topic... now they are friends? 

One of our ongoing challenges in bitcoin is going to be the existence of various attackers and it may not be easy to determine if they are good or bad, and maybe that is why the software is supposed to kind of assume that everyone is acting in his own selfish interest, and we get to trust the math but not necessarily the various people?   

I don't really have a need to pursue this topic, even though it is likely going to keep coming up long into bitcoin's future... and hopefully bitcoin has a long future and has become stronger from this attack and don't give into leaving holes by inviting into confidence some of the players who engage in destructive behaviors.
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