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Question: Feb. 28 Bitcoin Price:
<$7,000 - 7 (4.2%)
$7,000-$8,000 - 4 (2.4%)
$8,000-$9,000 - 5 (3%)
$9,000-$10,000 - 13 (7.8%)
$10,000-$11,000 - 23 (13.9%)
$11,000-$12,000 - 33 (19.9%)
$12,000-$13,000 - 17 (10.2%)
$13,000+ - 64 (38.6%)
Total Voters: 166

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 20168292 times)
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ivomm
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November 08, 2017, 02:57:32 PM

Something bad is happening to Kraken! Not working for months! Are they cooking an exit scam?
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afbitcoins
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November 08, 2017, 02:59:52 PM

Yes, but what if all those billions of users could just login to FB 2.0 using their legacy FB credentials? Wouldn't that be tempting? Wouldn't you do it, just to try the new system?

And how much value would this have to you if there were 40 separate forks? 400 forks?

It's not about value, but about disruption and loss of credibility. A common, non-technical user wanting to sign up would have to choose between 400 different FB pages to register, and he would then be able to login only to the one single version he registered, whereas his friends who were long-time FB users would have access to all of them! They would post messages that can potentially be seen by the new user, but his replies won't reach them...

It's just an ugly mess for the newbie and the interested but non-technical investor, who will be scared away. The name "Bitcoin" should map to one codebase, one blockchain, one coin. I believe that all those forks are not intended to help Bitcoin, but to cause havoc and disruption for motives characterized by ego and greed. It's a cancer and it's unfortunate that it exists.

It is also  a natural effect of bitcoin being Open Source software which is huge part of the reason it is so trusted in the first place. But I agree it can be used as a way to spread FUD and attack the limited coins ideal.
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November 08, 2017, 03:01:00 PM

I would argue that it was clear cut that bitcoin cash is the closest living fork to Satoshi's original intent. However it failed (or didn't even try) to win the brand and therefore lost the ecosystem along with it.  The core developers and community has decided Satoshi's vision is no longer appropriate for bitcoin. This kind of makes me sad maybe out of a sense of nostalgia remembering the original promise of bitcoin before the scaling shit fight took over. But then again something had to yield bitcoin was hitting some hard limits.

I'm sorry but.... if you can't see that having a 8MB block size immediately created 98% BCH mining centralization (thus killing Satoshi's original vision of a decentralized mining ecosystem), then you are beyond help. Lowering transaction fees will be solved in a different way.



I would argue that large mining pools are centralised on bitcoin just as in bitcoin cash.
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November 08, 2017, 03:03:20 PM

Something bad is happening to Kraken! Not working for months! Are they cooking an exit scam?

well they certainly fucked me
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November 08, 2017, 03:03:38 PM

Something bad is happening to Kraken! Not working for months! Are they cooking an exit scam?

Kraken is intended for HODLers. Impossible to trade during big swings as they are unable to serve more than about a dozen traders Wink
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November 08, 2017, 03:06:42 PM

Yes, but what if all those billions of users could just login to FB 2.0 using their legacy FB credentials? Wouldn't that be tempting? Wouldn't you do it, just to try the new system?

And how much value would this have to you if there were 40 separate forks? 400 forks?

It's not about value, but about disruption and loss of credibility. A common, non-technical user wanting to sign up would have to choose between 400 different FB pages to register, and he would then be able to login only to the one single version he registered, whereas his friends who were long-time FB users would have access to all of them! They would post messages that can potentially be seen by the new user, but his replies won't reach them...

It's just an ugly mess for the newbie and the interested but non-technical investor, who will be scared away. The name "Bitcoin" should map to one codebase, one blockchain, one coin. I believe that all those forks are not intended to help Bitcoin, but to cause havoc and disruption for motives characterized by ego and greed. It's a cancer and it's unfortunate that it exists.

It is also  a natural effect of bitcoin being Open Source software which is huge part of the reason it is so trusted in the first place. But I agree it can be used as a way to spread FUD and attack the limited coins ideal.

This is correct. That's why I said it's unfortunate that it exists, but it does, by design. Open Source is a good thing, probably the only method for achieving something as grand and revolutionary as Bitcoin, but it has its side-effects, which, combined with ego and greed, create this cancer. It remains to be seen how malignant it will be.
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November 08, 2017, 03:11:15 PM

Honestly, some of you guys talking about forks having immediate value or being immediate "competition" are just not getting it.

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November 08, 2017, 03:16:31 PM

I would argue that it was clear cut that bitcoin cash is the closest living fork to Satoshi's original intent. However it failed (or didn't even try) to win the brand and therefore lost the ecosystem along with it.  The core developers and community has decided Satoshi's vision is no longer appropriate for bitcoin. This kind of makes me sad maybe out of a sense of nostalgia remembering the original promise of bitcoin before the scaling shit fight took over. But then again something had to yield bitcoin was hitting some hard limits.

I'm sorry but.... if you can't see that having a 8MB block size immediately created 98% BCH mining centralization (thus killing Satoshi's original vision of a decentralized mining ecosystem), then you are beyond help. Lowering transaction fees will be solved in a different way.



I would argue that large mining pools are centralised on bitcoin just as in bitcoin cash.

Bitcoin gold is the answer XD
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November 08, 2017, 03:19:40 PM

<image snip>
Haha, pretty funny.

Of course I'd start off with something a little more philosophically direct:

I said: "Bitcoin Core and SegWit with maintaining Satoshi original vision of decentralization, or without?"
He said: "Without. Reckless big blocks ftw."
Me: "Die, statist PayPal 2.0 corpcoiner!" And I pushed him over.  Grin
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November 08, 2017, 03:24:43 PM

https://cointelegraph.com/news/segwit2x-hard-fork-could-have-devastating-consequences-for-bitcoin

I am still wondering whether the risk of hodling through the fork is worth the nerves Undecided

Still waiting for the "experts in technology" of this thread to refute this point:
Quote
Bitcoin’s network is going to work exactly as Satoshi programmed it. At present, miner support for the 2x hard fork is running around 83 percent. Bitcoin developer Jimmy Song made some rough calculations, based on 90 percent miner support for the fork. This is reasonable since statistical variance causes miner support to fluctuate.

Song reasoned that, if 90 percent of Bitcoin’s miners follow through with their current plan to mine SegWit2x, then:

“ Block 494784 splits to 1X and 2X. Initially, 1X has 100 minute blocks, 2X has 11 minute blocks on average. 1X and 2X have the exact same difficulty.”

Legacy Bitcoin (which Song calls “1X”) would have 100 minute blocks. This means a single transaction with a high enough fee to make it into the next block would require 10 hours to receive six confirmations. It would take nearly half a day to fully confirm a transaction on the 1X chain!

How is the ecosystem going to react to a nearly two hour block time? Given the great slowness of the network - an order of magnitude slower than pre-fork--how high will fees rise? If the block size remains the same (on the 1X chain) but there are only a tenth as many blocks, fees will have to rise to monstrous levels since there will be 10 times the competition for space in a block.

This will be no brief inconvenience, either. Song estimates that if the mining split remains as it is today, the 1X chain won’t experience a difficulty drop until Feb. 3, and block times won’t return completely to normal until March 10. Die-hard supporters of the legacy chain will be contending with nearly two hour block times and sky-high fees for about three months!

Here is the obvious lack of logic of some developers:
Quote
Bitcoin’s core devs, who unanimously support the 1X chain, have said that in the event of any attacks, they will simply change the proof-of-work algorithm. While this could work, it would require yet another hard fork.

It should be remembered that part of Core’s opposition to SegWit2x is because hard forks are dangerous, yet these same developers propose to foist a risky hard fork on an already unstable 1X network that’s under attack by a larger chain. This seems unwise in the extreme. Not only that, but changing 1X’s proof-of-work algorithm would tend to undermine its assertion that it’s the “true” heir to Satoshi’s original Bitcoin network.

PS: Hoping, as usual, that the trolls in this thread are dedicated to discredit the author instead of discussing their points.

_______________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________

On the other hand, I'm surprised by the amount of non-funny stupidity that spreads around here some times. Comparing Bitcoin with Facebook (in a hardfork context), is like comparing bitcoin with tulips. Genius!

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November 08, 2017, 03:26:43 PM





A study reveals that those who share 'deep' quotes on Facebook/Internet are unintelligent, and they are also more likely to believe paranormal theories: http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.pdf
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November 08, 2017, 03:29:20 PM

First they (their customers) gonna get screwed badly by honey badger and then they gonna complain to have the FED-SEC and the rest of the so called regulators to impose
regulations = destroy price discovery on the exchanges. And we might very well end in the same deplorable position as GLD.

But GLD is held in custody, you dont have it stored in your house. Whereas for bitcoin, you can have the wallet and a copy of the blockchain in your hdd.

They will have to pump it first, though. No investor will enter in a future contract if the sell price is the same as the one currently on the exchanges. They will want it higher so that they make a profit out of it.

And CME and others will need to grow a reputation on it first, before screwing it up and blaming the "speculators from the exchanges" for it.
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November 08, 2017, 03:29:43 PM

Still waiting for the "experts in technology" of this thread to refute this point:
Quote
Bitcoin’s network is going to work exactly as Satoshi programmed it. At present, miner support for the 2x hard fork is running around 83 percent. Bitcoin developer Jimmy Song made some rough calculations, based on 90 percent miner support for the fork. This is reasonable since statistical variance causes miner support to fluctuate.

Song reasoned that, if 90 percent of Bitcoin’s miners follow through with their current plan to mine SegWit2x, then:

“ Block 494784 splits to 1X and 2X. Initially, 1X has 100 minute blocks, 2X has 11 minute blocks on average. 1X and 2X have the exact same difficulty.”

Legacy Bitcoin (which Song calls “1X”) would have 100 minute blocks. This means a single transaction with a high enough fee to make it into the next block would require 10 hours to receive six confirmations. It would take nearly half a day to fully confirm a transaction on the 1X chain!

How is the ecosystem going to react to a nearly two hour block time? Given the great slowness of the network - an order of magnitude slower than pre-fork--how high will fees rise? If the block size remains the same (on the 1X chain) but there are only a tenth as many blocks, fees will have to rise to monstrous levels since there will be 10 times the competition for space in a block.

This will be no brief inconvenience, either. Song estimates that if the mining split remains as it is today, the 1X chain won’t experience a difficulty drop until Feb. 3, and block times won’t return completely to normal until March 10. Die-hard supporters of the legacy chain will be contending with nearly two hour block times and sky-high fees for about three months!


The thing that the fuckwitted autists who squeal about this never, ever, ever, ever seem to bother to mention is a small group of people known as...

wait for it....

users.

There are millions of them who wield staggering and overwhelming power. Miners can posture all they like. If they attempt to fuck the users then they triple entry buttfuck themselves with razorwire dildos.

Every single doomsday scenario has been played out ad nauseam. We've been told were going to be murdered by everything the tossers who FUD laid out in loving detail.

When it came to actual reality the risk of pissing off the users outweighed anything else and nothing happened.



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November 08, 2017, 03:31:33 PM

When buying a trezor, how can you be sure it doesnt get reprogrammed or something on the way here?
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November 08, 2017, 03:35:09 PM

Still waiting for the "experts in technology" of this thread to refute this point:
Quote
Bitcoin’s network is going to work exactly as Satoshi programmed it. At present, miner support for the 2x hard fork is running around 83 percent. Bitcoin developer Jimmy Song made some rough calculations, based on 90 percent miner support for the fork. This is reasonable since statistical variance causes miner support to fluctuate.

Song reasoned that, if 90 percent of Bitcoin’s miners follow through with their current plan to mine SegWit2x, then:

“ Block 494784 splits to 1X and 2X. Initially, 1X has 100 minute blocks, 2X has 11 minute blocks on average. 1X and 2X have the exact same difficulty.”

Legacy Bitcoin (which Song calls “1X”) would have 100 minute blocks. This means a single transaction with a high enough fee to make it into the next block would require 10 hours to receive six confirmations. It would take nearly half a day to fully confirm a transaction on the 1X chain!

How is the ecosystem going to react to a nearly two hour block time? Given the great slowness of the network - an order of magnitude slower than pre-fork--how high will fees rise? If the block size remains the same (on the 1X chain) but there are only a tenth as many blocks, fees will have to rise to monstrous levels since there will be 10 times the competition for space in a block.

This will be no brief inconvenience, either. Song estimates that if the mining split remains as it is today, the 1X chain won’t experience a difficulty drop until Feb. 3, and block times won’t return completely to normal until March 10. Die-hard supporters of the legacy chain will be contending with nearly two hour block times and sky-high fees for about three months!


The thing that the fuckwitted autists who squeal about this never, ever, ever, ever seem to bother to mention is a small group of people known as...

wait for it....

users.

There are millions of them who wield staggering and overwhelming power. Miners can posture all they like. If they attempt to fuck the users then they triple entry buttfuck themselves with razorwire dildos.

Every single doomsday scenario has been played out ad nauseam. We've been told were going to be murdered by everything the tossers who FUD laid out in loving detail.

When it came to actual reality the risk of pissing off the users outweighed anything else and nothing happened.


Ok, I understand. And the technical reasons?
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November 08, 2017, 03:36:11 PM

When buying a trezor, how can you be sure it doesnt get reprogrammed or something on the way here?

you can't

30 ninjas with Uzis man, you're fucked
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November 08, 2017, 03:36:32 PM

Ok, I understand. And the technical reasons?

What does tech have to do with anything?
Gab0
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November 08, 2017, 03:40:05 PM

Ok, I understand. And the technical reasons?

What does tech have to do with anything?

...Huh what's wrong with you? Was not explicit enough before?

Quote
Bitcoin’s network is going to work exactly as Satoshi programmed it. At present, miner support for the 2x hard fork is running around 83 percent. Bitcoin developer Jimmy Song made some rough calculations, based on 90 percent miner support for the fork. This is reasonable since statistical variance causes miner support to fluctuate.

Song reasoned that, if 90 percent of Bitcoin’s miners follow through with their current plan to mine SegWit2x, then:

“ Block 494784 splits to 1X and 2X. Initially, 1X has 100 minute blocks, 2X has 11 minute blocks on average. 1X and 2X have the exact same difficulty.”

Legacy Bitcoin (which Song calls “1X”) would have 100 minute blocks. This means a single transaction with a high enough fee to make it into the next block would require 10 hours to receive six confirmations. It would take nearly half a day to fully confirm a transaction on the 1X chain!

How is the ecosystem going to react to a nearly two hour block time? Given the great slowness of the network - an order of magnitude slower than pre-fork--how high will fees rise? If the block size remains the same (on the 1X chain) but there are only a tenth as many blocks, fees will have to rise to monstrous levels since there will be 10 times the competition for space in a block.

This will be no brief inconvenience, either. Song estimates that if the mining split remains as it is today, the 1X chain won’t experience a difficulty drop until Feb. 3, and block times won’t return completely to normal until March 10. Die-hard supporters of the legacy chain will be contending with nearly two hour block times and sky-high fees for about three months!
gentlemand
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November 08, 2017, 03:43:10 PM

...Huh what's wrong with you? Was not explicit enough before?

They will not do what is described because they will severely damage their ability to make money by pissing off the users. Hence my lengthy point.

Tech is irrelevant. Money is relevant.

There's a million other technically possible things they can do. They will not do it because they will lose money.
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November 08, 2017, 03:47:05 PM

...Huh what's wrong with you? Was not explicit enough before?

They will not do what is described because they will severely damage their ability to make money by pissing off the users. Hence my lengthy point.

Tech is irrelevant.

Ok, thanks for answering. But I do not agree.
The x2 chain, in a darwinist/capitalist context, is more likely to survive than the x1 chain.
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