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November 23, 2017, 11:42:45 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
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Question: Nov. 30 Price Forecast:
Below $5,500 - 33 (12.3%)
$5,500 to $6,000 - 13 (4.8%)
$6,000 to $6,500 - 8 (3%)
$6,500 to $7,000 - 20 (7.4%)
$7,000 to $7,500 - 23 (8.6%)
$7,500 to $8,000 - 23 (8.6%)
$8,000 to $8,500 - 37 (13.8%)
Over $8,500 - 112 (41.6%)
Total Voters: 269

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 19735445 times)
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marcus_of_augustus
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November 08, 2017, 10:27:54 PM



or fork either ...
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afbitcoins
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November 08, 2017, 10:27:59 PM

[edited out]


I surmise that your rambling diatribe could be condensed to the following argument. Bitcoin cash doesn't count because 'nutjobs' made it.  There was no contention with segwit because bitcoin cash doesn' count. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don't really agree with it.

Actually, whatever I said speaks for itself, and your inability or deliberate failure to understand what I wrote is reflected in your inaccurate summary of it.


If you want to know what a hard fork without contention is look at Dash which has had several hard forks during its development but not yet resulted in a rival blockchain being spawned during it.


Oh yeah, let's look at Dash or some other blockchain to answer BIG questions about bitcoin..  Roll Eyes  Do you even understand the absurdity of your own suggestion?  There are certain dynamics in bitcoin that causes the direction forwards to be different from other alts including and probably not limited to: the size of its market cap, its actual decentralized nature, its many networking effects, and the visciousness of attacks upon it.


By the way categorizing me as a stupid ass big blocker isn't strictly accurate. I am concerned with high fees and such like resulting from small blocks however I  am still well invested in bitcoin (the 1M block variety) and haven't ruled out its success going down the settlement layer path.

Who fucking cares if you own a few bitcoins here or there or if you are hedged in various directions that includes holding some bitcoins?  your ongoing nutty and seemingly emotional FUD spreading speaks for itself.. o..k.. sure, maybe you are one of those nut jobs who actually believes the shit that he is spreading, but that does not make what you say any better, especially since it appears quite apparent that you are either lacking information or failing and refusing to adequately study various matters (facts and/or logic) before you spout them out.

Good grief! You still going. OK you say I misrepresented your rambling diatribe but conveniently edited it out of this comment. How then is one to judge without searching back pages in the forum to see it? Maybe we just take your word for it that it made sense and was coherent. My own comment left in and broken into small segments now has no context, also convenient. Its almost an admission you know what you wrote was a load of bollocks and that I correctly surmised it. However I prefer instead to just thank you for editing it out, it was bad enough the first time.

What else have you got? Bitcoin has certain dynamics that make it different. Oh really. Thanks for enlightening me, how silly of me to not know that.

I only mentioned my position in response to your accusations of my being a 'stupid ass big blocker' to illustrate your being wrong on that count. Who the fuck care? Probably noone. Who the fuck cares about the way in which you sell when the price is going up in 200 dollar blocks but might adjust the amount if the price reaches a new level. My guess, noone. Yet you manage to ramble on paragraphs at a time in painful irrelevant detail. Almost embarrassing really.

And all this because I called bitcoin, bitcoin segwit!

 

RealMachasm
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November 08, 2017, 10:29:41 PM

Why is ETH up and BCH down? This market makes zero sense.

Because “ but my free coins....” best swap back to eth where one dodgy bit of code can result in my coins being locked away permanently.

And the SegWit2x futures are still trading. https://coincodex.com/crypto/segwit2x/
Who's buying these things?

Probably those people who still intend to fork to S2x. So much FUD around I wouldn’t be surprised if they do another 180 and it’s back on again!! 🤨
bitebits
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November 08, 2017, 10:30:28 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.
DonQuijote
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November 08, 2017, 10:31:07 PM

This kid is like 5 years from a total nervous breakdown..
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/928172344631115776
Remind me!


Ether burned 500k eth, antidump strategy
Last of the V8s
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Be a bank


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November 08, 2017, 10:32:48 PM



in this moment ... I am serene
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November 08, 2017, 10:36:18 PM


jojo69
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no FOMO


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November 08, 2017, 10:45:52 PM



ALL ABOARD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgHrDbN4EU&index=1&list=PLF123EE52E1AC7A90
har23
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November 08, 2017, 10:52:53 PM

10 000 $ soon  Roll Eyes
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 10:57:30 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.

LN is a toy. Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit about buying gewgaws from bloody Amazon?
itod
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^ will code for bitcoins


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November 08, 2017, 11:00:45 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.

LN is a toy. Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit about buying gewgaws from bloody Amazon?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476196/number-of-active-amazon-customer-accounts-quarter/
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 11:03:01 PM

ok well... Tongue
afbitcoins
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November 08, 2017, 11:07:47 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.

You will open an account (payment channel) with a bank (lightning node hub) which routes your payments where they need to go. The lightning network will certainly evolve to be central hubs routing payments.  These banks (lightning node hubs) will settle on the blockchain when you close your account (payment channel) but otherwise won't really need the blockchain much.

Unless I'm mistaken
d_eddie
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November 08, 2017, 11:19:01 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.
It's still peer to peer (no central authority), but not one-to-one. There will be multiple routes. Irregular mesh topology over Tor.

You will open an account (payment channel) with a bank (lightning node hub) which routes your payments where they need to go. The lightning network will certainly evolve to be central hubs routing payments.  These banks (lightning node hubs) will settle on the blockchain when you close your account (payment channel) but otherwise won't really need the blockchain much.

Unless I'm mistaken

Right, not much need for on-chain stuff except opening/closing channels. Or possibly topping them up, I am still not clear on what will happen with "refill" operations as the protocol evolves. The hubs will be "central" only in the sense of "hyperconnected, with lots of money at stake in multiple channels". They won't be able to censor transactions or tamper with the protocol - or even figure out where the coins ultimately go. Hubs can be routed around if desired or necessary. Someone else will get the fees - if any. Not that shabby, is it?
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 11:21:21 PM

Open a node over Tor for online shopping. w/e Cheesy
d_eddie
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November 08, 2017, 11:22:53 PM

Open a node over Tor for online shopping. w/e Cheesy
Are you trolling? BTC can already use Tor as the network layer if it works on your BTC node.
Rosewater Foundation
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November 08, 2017, 11:25:21 PM

Open a node over Tor for online shopping. w/e Cheesy
Are you trolling? BTC can already use Tor as the network layer if it works on your BTC node.
No I just don't get it. Isn't there a law about using fiat for shopping, because it's basically disintegrating anyway? Gresham or Hanlon or Newton...there's a law.
Sorry, I'll butt out.
d_eddie
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November 08, 2017, 11:28:28 PM

Open a node over Tor for online shopping. w/e Cheesy
Are you trolling? BTC can already use Tor as the network layer if it works on your BTC node.
No I just don't get it. Isn't there a law about using fiat for shopping, because it's basically disintegrating anyway? Gresham or Hanlon or Newton...there's a law.

The "bad money pushes good money out of circulation" law? That's Gresham's.
But - admitting you wish to use BTC for coffee or whatever - it will be your LN client that manages the Tor connection, figures out a route to the recipient, and initiates the transaction. You don't have to actually set up any Tor node.
Gab0
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November 08, 2017, 11:34:26 PM


I can be wrong, correct me if I do.
To use LN you must create payment channels. If I want to buy something on Amazon, I should open a payment channel with Amazon. But, if tomorrow I want to buy something on Ebay, I must also open a channel with them? And if later I want to buy a coffee at Starbucks, should I open another channel?

No such need, as long as you share a channel with a node (that has a channel shared with a node (that has...  ...)))) with Starbucks.  Same for Amazon. It's a mesh network. The general opinion is that there will be enough channels open to reach any relevant agent.

Ah you mean like Bitcoin? But then without the peer to peer? Sounds great.
It's still peer to peer (no central authority), but not one-to-one. There will be multiple routes. Irregular mesh topology over Tor.

You will open an account (payment channel) with a bank (lightning node hub) which routes your payments where they need to go. The lightning network will certainly evolve to be central hubs routing payments.  These banks (lightning node hubs) will settle on the blockchain when you close your account (payment channel) but otherwise won't really need the blockchain much.

Unless I'm mistaken

Right, not much need for on-chain stuff except opening/closing channels. Or possibly topping them up, I am still not clear on what will happen with "refill" operations as the protocol evolves. The hubs will be "central" only in the sense of "hyperconnected, with lots of money at stake in multiple channels". They won't be able to censor transactions or tamper with the protocol - or even figure out where the coins ultimately go. Hubs can be routed around if desired or necessary. Someone else will get the fees - if any. Not that shabby, is it?

I appreciate your answers. It sounds very interesting, but still highly speculative.
I have a question, related to the bitcoin incentive system. What will happen in the long term, when the reward for each block decreases, and a large part of the transactions are made out of the chain?
BobLawblaw
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November 08, 2017, 11:40:58 PM



This .gif accurately summarizes today.

What a freaking crazy ride, amirite ?
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