Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[rafanadal]

dump..incoming

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[JayJuanGee]

amendments are changes to the constitution

Aren't they ad ons to the constitution?
I realize that they can change the meaning of the constitution, but can the actual wording of the constitution be altered?

Yes and yes.  An amendment can delete part of the Constitution in an additive way. For example, a Constitutional amendment could be added that repeals the federal Senate and all clauses of the Constitution in relation to the Senate. From that day forward, the Senate would be deleted.

Technically you are adding another layer, but new layers can change old layers.  The most extreme example would be a Constitutional amendment that repeals the Constitution itself, at which point the whole thing disappears in a puff of smoke.

But wouldn't those amendments be unconstitutional and be repealed by the supreme court?

You seem to fail or refuse to understand the basic concept of an amendment, Arriemoller.

The amendment becomes a part of the document itself, even if such amendment was subsequently created (and added on).  The language of the amendment has the same power of law as the original document, even if their are a bunch of nonsensical whining fucks that say that we should go back to the original document, it does not matter, the original document is water under the bridge, and the new document with the amendments replace the old document and have the full power of the original document with the new language.  In essence the amendments could completely repeal the whole original document and have their own new meaning and significance that completely contradicts the original document, but the amendments would have the whole force of the original (or maybe even more powerful, depending upon the chosen (agreed to) language).

[Ibian]

Honestly, I will get a lambo at some point. Just because. But it will be when it is a trivial amount, so not for a while yet. For now I am content with two boats, one with sails and one without.

[Ibian]

I remember when civil disobedience was a thing.

I remember when colonies obeyed the crown. Good times. Then you went and committed the arguably biggest felony in all the history of the world. (i can think of other examples and will list them if anyone feels like inquiring, but then you don't get to complain about them after the fact. choose wisely.)

[JayJuanGee]

if you think that you are going to die soon

But what if you're wrong?

That is definitely a problem for those who want to plan on "going out" balls to the walls, and end up living a bit longer than expected.

On the other hand, debt seems to be the American way - even though such exorbitant debt status can only be sustained for so long before it might begin to cause considerable real and material problems of property and asset seizures (prematurely - or at least outside of the going out balls to the walls expectations). 

[cAPSLOCK]

Is Roger cashing out again?   What is BCASH doing?

[Ibian]

Dude who gives a shit we are crashing to higher than just the other day. Live a little.

[Vlada69]

Is Roger cashing out again?   What is BCASH doing?

being boring as usual...

[HairyMaclairy]

Fun part is going to watch everyone try to short the bottom of this little dip.

[bones261]

Fun part is going to watch everyone try to short the bottom of this little dip.

So you think this is a bear trap?

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

If you spent around $10k on bitcoins any time between late 2014 and early 2016 at below $500 (let's say average price per BTC was about $500), then you would have 20 BTC - seems like enough for a Lambo.

On the other hand, I think that it would NOT be very wise to buy a Lambo unless you have at least 100BTC (so if you have at least 100BTC, then you would be spending less than 20% of your bitcoin holdings on a Lambo).  On the other hand (I think that is enough hands for now), if you think that you are going to die soon (within the next year or two), then who cares, you need to have funzies while you are still living... and spend your bitcoins and buy the depreciating Lambo - even if you only have 20 BTC-ish or even less.

That's my NOT SO GOOD advices for the day.          

20% of the nest egg for a lambo, that's crazy talk. I'd barely be willing to spend that percentage to retire, then maybe lambo if 20% of retirement-money is enough for the lambo. Yes I'm a greedy greedy fuck. 

I think that you and I are on a similar page in our thinking about buying luxury and depreciating assets with proceeds of our bitcoin investment, so I suppose that I am appealing to the more extravagant folks in this thread.  They do exist.

One thing that might need to be sussed out is whether we are presuming bitcoins to be the totality of your investments or what kind of size is th rest of your estate.   Let's just assume for the sake of argument that the bitcoin holdings constitute a vast majority of your whole wealth (at least 80% or more), and then your figure of 20% of 20% puts you at about 4% of your holdings, and even having some reservations about whether a Lambo would be prudent under those circumstances. 

I cannot really battle with you on those kind of personal thresholds, because I am likely similar to you in my thinking and probably less than 2% would be my personal threshold, as long as I was feeling sufficiently geared up otherwise to have a decent storage place for the thing and the other lifestyle drama that a lambo would likely bring into my life.. because there is no doubt that spending on a lambo should really symbolize that you have acquired a decent stash of "fuck you" money, rather than you have to stretch your finances in order to be able to fit such a purchase into your lifestyle.

[Tzupy]

A major dump could make PSAR flip to bearish in quick succession, for the 1h, 2h, 6h and 12h time frames.

Dump flipped 1h, 2h and 6h PSAR to bearish, but not yet the 12h. Going to bed, will try to catch the bottom tomorrow morning.

[Vlada69]

Fun part is going to watch everyone try to short the bottom of this little dip.

So you think this is a bear trap?

Someone said on tradingview btc is bear trap all along lol

[HairyMaclairy]

Fun part is going to watch everyone try to short the bottom of this little dip.

So you think this is a bear trap?

Yes. 

Edit:  the real dump will come when we touch $12k or just before.

[vapourminer]

Accumulation is happening again. But note that at these price levels, this accumulation could go on for a very long time.

You guys may die of complete boredom in the interim.

But I want my Lambo noooooooooowww!

https://i.imgflip.com/25s5tj.jpg

If you spent around $10k on bitcoins any time between late 2014 and early 2016 at below $500 (let's say average price per BTC was about $500), then you would have 20 BTC - seems like enough for a Lambo.

On the other hand, I think that it would NOT be very wise to buy a Lambo unless you have at least 100BTC (so if you have at least 100BTC, then you would be spending less than 20% of your bitcoin holdings on a Lambo).  On the other hand (I think that is enough hands for now), if you think that you are going to die soon (within the next year or two), then who cares, you need to have funzies while you are still living... and spend your bitcoins and buy the depreciating Lambo - even if you only have 20 BTC-ish or even less.

on the gripping hand you just estimate how long you figure you have left.

say you figure 30 years. a lambo plus enough money for a lavish lifestyle for 15 years is 1/2 your stack. will the value of the btc you still have left at that point (due to btc price increase in 15 years) be enough for another 15 or 20 years beyond that? 

if you dont spend it faster than your remaining stacks value increases.. TOYS!!!

of course if the price tanks.. well theres always organ donations or something. always have a Plan B.

[Gab0]

@CobraBitcoin https://twitter.com/CobraBitcoin/status/970736614275153926

Increased my holdings of Bitcoin Cash today. There was a long need for a blockchain good for payments, that makes certain tradeoffs to achieve that, and I think from a UX point of view, Bitcoin Cash has much better chances of winning the upcoming payments war than LN.

[Rosewater Foundation]

@CobraBitcoin https://twitter.com/CobraBitcoin/status/970736614275153926

Increased my holdings of Bitcoin Cash today. There was a long need for a blockchain good for payments, that makes certain tradeoffs to achieve that, and I think from a UX point of view, Bitcoin Cash has much better chances of winning the upcoming payments war than LN.

At least he's inconsistent.

[JayJuanGee]

amendments are changes to the constitution

Psst..have to cryptospeak around these parts..

The original Constitution is made up of 7 articles and it is like the genesis block. Amendments are "consensus" based blocks added over time that form the framework that is the United States. This chain can be forked under certain conditions described by Hairy somewhere previously in this thread I believe.

US constitution has been hardforked how many times?
I want US Classic. Not these amended altcoin constitutions.

Don't be retarded.


Nobody gives a shit what you want. 

Instead, it is much more healthy to attempt and navigate and accept what is there rather than whining about the so many ways in your narrow opinion that what is there is not perfect.   

bullshit

what you term "whining" is actually engaging in debate in a democratic process

I am not talking bullshit.... You seem to be reacting with emotion.  amirite?   

Oh of course, you have a right to propose changes to any given system, and you can also assert that we should go back to the original version and describe your vision in that regard, and generally, I have the right to assert that you are whining too. 

Each of these positions of the changed system and appeals to the original system can be described as negotiating positions, too, and each side can assert that his/her position is more reasonable than the other side's position.   But they are not equally valid, once the amendments have already passed and been accepted into the system.

I am not referring to any specifics here, except maybe we have been talking generally about proclamations regarding constitutional originalism  and we have also been referring to proclamations of bitcoin originalism.  Each of these systems have been amended with the passage of time, and my characterization of a position that wants to go back to the original as whining does not necessarily shut off the discussion, even though it might be reasonably understood as a sending of a message from me that I perceive that the originalist has not substantiated his/her position sufficiently with merely a proclamation that the original version is supposedly better than the amended one.

Furthermore, if any originalist wants to get rid of an amendment, usually the process of getting rid of the amendment (and returning to the original document) is just as burdensome as originally getting the amendment passed, so any originalist does not have any kind of easy road to whine and say that s/he wants to go back to the original because usually a process has already been followed that had caused the whole system to move from the original version to the amendment version and in order to get rid of the amendment the originalist usually would have the burden of production and persuasion to convince of such repeal that is frequently equal to the burdens that had been present to get the amendment(s) passed in the first place.

So, contrary to your assertions, I don't see how anything that I was saying was bullshit or suppressing discussion, but merely asserting that the whiners don't have some kind of easy path to get any matters reversed, so they better get their asses to work to produce and persuade beyond mere whining.   

[JayJuanGee]

Accumulation is happening again. But note that at these price levels, this accumulation could go on for a very long time.

You guys may die of complete boredom in the interim.

But I want my Lambo noooooooooowww!

https://i.imgflip.com/25s5tj.jpg

If you spent around $10k on bitcoins any time between late 2014 and early 2016 at below $500 (let's say average price per BTC was about $500), then you would have 20 BTC - seems like enough for a Lambo.

On the other hand, I think that it would NOT be very wise to buy a Lambo unless you have at least 100BTC (so if you have at least 100BTC, then you would be spending less than 20% of your bitcoin holdings on a Lambo).  On the other hand (I think that is enough hands for now), if you think that you are going to die soon (within the next year or two), then who cares, you need to have funzies while you are still living... and spend your bitcoins and buy the depreciating Lambo - even if you only have 20 BTC-ish or even less.

on the gripping hand you just estimate how long you figure you have left.

say you figure 30 years. a lambo plus enough money for a lavish lifestyle for 15 years is 1/2 your stack. will the value of the btc you still have left at that point (due to btc price increase in 15 years) be enough for another 15 or 20 years beyond that? 

if you dont spend it faster than your remaining stacks value increases.. TOYS!!!

of course if the price tanks.. well theres always organ donations or something. always have a Plan B.

Most traditional investment advisors will suggest that you can withdraw up to 4% per year of a sufficiently diversified investment portfolio and still maintain the principle.  At a certain point, if you believe that you have a "not going to be with us anymore" timeline, then your withdrawal strategy could safely become more aggressive because in those circumstances there might not be a need to preserve much if any principle.

Sure, you might decide to consider safeness or appreciation in bitcoin to be different from traditional investment strategies, yet personally, I don't see any significant reason to deviate greatly from a 4% per year withdrawal plan for BTC, and surely you are not locked into any withdrawal plan that you chose to follow, because if you begin to follow a 4% withdrawal plan for several years and BTC appreciates way above expectations of that plan, then you could become more aggressive on the withdrawal plan.  Any plan should provide guidelines and reason, but of course, situations and perspectives can cause a considerable amount of tweaking and playing around that hopefully such playing around does not devolve so far into gambling territory rather than exercising a decent amount prudence and reasoning.

[HI-TEC99]

Bitcoinity's going down for maintenance soon. Anyone checking the price on it will have to switch to something else.

At about 1:30 AM UTC site will temporarily go down for maintanance.