Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

I plan on opening a hotdog stand and creating a private blockchain for inventory management.

Blockchain is cool... BUt what about an ICO first? Think BIG. You could easily get a few ten millions for your little hotdog stand. No need to invest your own money on it. Heck, no need to even open the hotdog stand.

Seems legit.

HotDogStand ICO.
Ticker symbol HDS.
Long name: HotDogs.
Algo: Proof of Steak. or Proof of Meat. or Proof of Hotdogs.
Coin Supply: 1000
To be sold in ICO: 800, 200 will be kept by Elwar and Devs, locked in escrow for a period of 6 months
Angel Day Bonus: 20%
1 week Bonus: 15%
2 week Bonus: 10%
3 week Bonus: 5%
Last week: 0%
Minimum Target: 100 BTC
Maximum Target: 10000 BTC, if reached, will have 24 hours and then ICO will end.
Coin Price: Price Discovery
Escrow: Individual Addresses per Participant, Multi-signature consolidated public address forwarded daily.

Roadmap: You get hotdogs. Each coin is backed by hotdogs. Normal hotdogs go stale in 24 hours. We will use a preservative that will keep it good for 3 years.

Pre-Ann to be announced soon, and Pre-sale and Pre-ICO before the real one 2 months later.

*edit* If I post an address, someone is going to send something to it. Crazy.

The funny thing is that Elwar does in fact have a real project that would be a perfect candidate for an ICO. That seasteading thing.

[JayJuanGee]

Ahh cool, well I'm still learning a lot about trading, but I am currently programming a dashboard to simplify some stuff ( auto limit orders, managing funds from customer etc ). Also since this is the speculation forum, what is everyone's thought about tonight, how low will we go. 2k support or back to 1900

Well, currently, we seem  to be about in the middle of a price range of $2300 to $2650.  We are nearly in the middle, and it seems to be a bit less likely that we are going to break downwards out of the range before we break upwards.

And, yeah, if we were to break downwards, then there would be pretty decent odds of going below $2k and $1800 would be fairly reasonable.. on the other hand, like I said, breaking up seems to bit more of a better bet - at least at the moment... and if we break above $2650 then likely we will be on our way to testing $3k.

I would not rule out consolidating for 1-2 weeks either, which may cause some boredom and maybe that is slightly less odds of going up would be to go sideways within the previously described price range.

The essence of your post:
"Guys, either it will go up or it will go down. If that does not happen, it will stay the same."

You are the best oracle I've ever seen, your predictions must be like 100% true.

Generally, I don't predict or attempt to predict short term BTC price directions.

Of course, my style has evolved a bit over the years, but frequently what I do is discuss price directions, dynamics and momentum and attempt to give probabilities to directions.  You as a reader are free to reach whatever conclusion that you believe is appropriate and to weigh your own probabilities  - whether you personally find my discussion to be helpful or not...

For example a few days ago, I was more inclined towards down; however, when the price recovered fairly quickly above $2500 and pretty much well above $2500, I began to conclude that the odds of up are becoming more likely. 

In both cases, I have been disinclined to give very high odds to sideways because we seem to be getting too much volume and too much disagreement about price.

Sure, in the end, any of the three can happen - but on a day to day basis the odds can change and one direction can become more probable than another based on passage of events - on the other hand, there can be a kind of ongoing existing buying pressure that allows HODLRs to feel somewhat comfortable about the odds against the price going down very much and even a very decent longer term likelihood that we are continuing up - even though in the shorter term we might not go directly up.

[jbreher]

Do I need an argument? The guy has no credibility.

Yes, you need an argument. Regardless of your opinion on CSW, his points stand on their own.

And it's not like this is some new oddball claim he is discussing. It is an aspect of SegWit that we have known since inception, bot for some reason never gets discussed.

Without SegWit, the most devastating thing a miner 51% attack could accomplish is to roll back some transactions. In all their expenditure, they are unable to claim others' coins for themselves.

However, once SegWit activates, the attack surface of a 51% attack takes on a new aspect. If a miner (or a cartel thereof) accumulates 51% of the hashrate, they are able to steal the funds of others. All it requires is mining new non-Segwit blocks that contain transactions which spend the 'anyone can spend' transactions in previous SegWit blocks.

Further, every additional block for all eternity contains additional incentive for the chain to be so attacked, as it will contain monotonically-increasing value locked in transactions that are SegWit under the new rules, but subject to theft via anyone-can-spend chain rollbacks.

So CSW aside, how come nobody wants to talk about this aspect of SegWit?

[2dogs]

I work on finance industry, with IT at a Multinational Bank, directly with CEOs. I can confirm most people working on research and attending weekly conferences within banking corporation CEOs know NOTHING - I repat: NOTHING about crypto and some top analysts don't even have had contact with Bitcoin or any other coin whatsoever. Such a shame.

Beautiful.  Keep it that way.

[Elwar]

I plan on opening a hotdog stand and creating a private blockchain for inventory management.

Blockchain is cool... BUt what about an ICO first? Think BIG. You could easily get a few ten millions for your little hotdog stand. No need to invest your own money on it. Heck, no need to even open the hotdog stand.

Seems legit.

HotDogStand ICO.
Ticker symbol HDS.
Long name: HotDogs.
Algo: Proof of Steak. or Proof of Meat. or Proof of Hotdogs.
Coin Supply: 1000
To be sold in ICO: 800, 200 will be kept by Elwar and Devs, locked in escrow for a period of 6 months
Angel Day Bonus: 20%
1 week Bonus: 15%
2 week Bonus: 10%
3 week Bonus: 5%
Last week: 0%
Minimum Target: 100 BTC
Maximum Target: 10000 BTC, if reached, will have 24 hours and then ICO will end.
Coin Price: Price Discovery
Escrow: Individual Addresses per Participant, Multi-signature consolidated public address forwarded daily.

Roadmap: You get hotdogs. Each coin is backed by hotdogs. Normal hotdogs go stale in 24 hours. We will use a preservative that will keep it good for 3 years.

Pre-Ann to be announced soon, and Pre-sale and Pre-ICO before the real one 2 months later.

*edit* If I post an address, someone is going to send something to it. Crazy.

The funny thing is that Elwar does in fact have a real project that would be a perfect candidate for an ICO. That seasteading thing.

I just signed on as a volunteer for a new seasteading company, Blue Frontiers, as part of the Blockchain group. We had discussed an ICO at the conference but their legal folks are pretty sure that stuff will be stamped out by the SEC at some point. I believe we might go the route of allowing for purchase of equity with bitcoins. My input to the group will definitely push the concept of being able to invest bitcoins to get invested.
I believe the main push will be toward recording property rights on the blockchain. Can't really record a seastead deed in some government office.

[Gab0]

By Dr. Craig Wright

Do you have a consistent argument to discuss your point? If it's not that way, thank you.

isn't that the guy that claimed to be satoshi but then backed down when pressed to prove it?

Do I need an argument? The guy has no credibility.

Yes, that's the guy who can't prove anything, or was too afraid to try to prove something. Can't even do a simple sign this bitcoin message, or sign this PGP message. So simple, yet can't do it.

You missed the point

Why do you think satoshi is anonymous? Because it dosen't matter the person, who he is or what he does. But it matters the idea behind him.

Now, the idea is that:

The introduction of SegWit would alter the maximum known risk associated with bitcoin from a 51% attack with the ability to censor transactions or to engage in elaborate double-spending attacks, to a catastrophic risk that could possibly and completely destroy the whole ledger and all contained value. The premise that miners will not steal funds at the genesis of SegWit does not address the introduction of new players who are now incentivised more and more each and every day to steal the funds that are locked into the ledger and which are growing daily. These new players and the increasing level of funds place all open areas of the ledger at risk to attack at a later date.

sorry for my bad english

[bitserve]

Do I need an argument? The guy has no credibility.

Yes, you need an argument. Regardless of your opinion on CSW, his points stand on their own.

And it's not like this is some new oddball claim he is discussing. It is an aspect of SegWit that we have known since inception, bot for some reason never gets discussed.

Without SegWit, the most devastating thing a miner 51% attack could accomplish is to roll back some transactions. In all their expenditure, they are unable to claim others' coins for themselves.

However, once SegWit activates, the attack surface of a 51% attack takes on a new aspect. If a miner (or a cartel thereof) accumulates 51% of the hashrate, they are able to steal the funds of others. All it requires is mining new non-Segwit blocks that contain transactions which spend the 'anyone can spend' transactions in previous SegWit blocks.

Further, every additional block for all eternity contains additional incentive for the chain to be so attacked, as it will contain monotonically-increasing value locked in transactions that are SegWit under the new rules, but subject to theft via anyone-can-spend chain rollbacks.

So CSW aside, how come nobody wants to talk about this aspect of SegWit?

There have been plenty of arguments around that issue already so maybe thats why there's no need to talk anymore about it.

Yes, a 51% attack could spend segwit transactions but:

a) If they do that, Bitcoin (at least THAT majority chain) will be worthless anyways.
b) They could just change the rules and increase the block size reward to whatever arbitrary value they would like instead. They could do that with or without Segwit in place.

I would consider it a non-issue or at least not more critical than the risk that a 51% of miners could totally ruin Bitcoin value. That's why I would prefer miner control would be somewhat more limited and distributed than what it is at this time.

There is a 1million prize in Litecoin for any miner that want to do it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/6azeu1/1mm_segwit_bounty/

I fact it may be 2 mill at current price. Noone has claimed it (F2POOL would be in a position to do it).

[TeeBone]

Litecoin breakout in 3, 2, 1....

Bitcoin to follow.

[bitserve]

Litecoin breakout in 3, 2, 1....

Bitcoin to follow.

Dat walls though....

I am not sure LTC price has a significant influence in Bitcoin Price... besides as a reference of what will happen when BTC approves SW.

[TeeBone]

Litecoin breakout in 3, 2, 1....

Bitcoin to follow.

Dat walls though....

I am not sure LTC price has a significant influence in Bitcoin Price... besides as a reference of what will happen when BTC approves SW.

Gonna get Pink Floyd chomped.

[Asrael999]

I plan on opening a hotdog stand and creating a private blockchain for inventory management.

Blockchain is cool... BUt what about an ICO first? Think BIG. You could easily get a few ten millions for your little hotdog stand. No need to invest your own money on it. Heck, no need to even open the hotdog stand.

Seems legit.

HotDogStand ICO.
Ticker symbol HDS.
Long name: HotDogs.
Algo: Proof of Steak. or Proof of Meat. or Proof of Hotdogs.
Coin Supply: 1000
To be sold in ICO: 800, 200 will be kept by Elwar and Devs, locked in escrow for a period of 6 months
Angel Day Bonus: 20%
1 week Bonus: 15%
2 week Bonus: 10%
3 week Bonus: 5%
Last week: 0%
Minimum Target: 100 BTC
Maximum Target: 10000 BTC, if reached, will have 24 hours and then ICO will end.
Coin Price: Price Discovery
Escrow: Individual Addresses per Participant, Multi-signature consolidated public address forwarded daily.

Roadmap: You get hotdogs. Each coin is backed by hotdogs. Normal hotdogs go stale in 24 hours. We will use a preservative that will keep it good for 3 years.

Pre-Ann to be announced soon, and Pre-sale and Pre-ICO before the real one 2 months later.

*edit* If I post an address, someone is going to send something to it. Crazy.

The funny thing is that Elwar does in fact have a real project that would be a perfect candidate for an ICO. That seasteading thing.

I just signed on as a volunteer for a new seasteading company, Blue Frontiers, as part of the Blockchain group. We had discussed an ICO at the conference but their legal folks are pretty sure that stuff will be stamped out by the SEC at some point. I believe we might go the route of allowing for purchase of equity with bitcoins. My input to the group will definitely push the concept of being able to invest bitcoins to get invested.
I believe the main push will be toward recording property rights on the blockchain. Can't really record a seastead deed in some government office.

This point needs to be emphasised, there is a world of difference between most of these ICOs and using blockchain tech to tokenise conventional securities like debt or equity. Most ICOs are selling imaginary vapourware, with no direct ownership of the company or idea the ICO proposes, tokenising the equity of a company moves ownership of that equity onto a ledger (distributed or decentralised) which enables T0 transactions and reduces counterparty risk.

[bitserve]

This point needs to be emphasised, there is a world of difference between most of these ICOs and using blockchain tech to tokenise conventional securities like debt or equity. Most ICOs are selling imaginary vapourware, with no direct ownership of the company or idea the ICO proposes, tokenising the equity of a company moves ownership of that equity onto a ledger (distributed or decentralised) which enables T0 transactions and reduces counterparty risk.

That's something I would really like to know the details. Let's see if I got it right:

- SOme guys fund a corporate, so they are the only partners and probably they just invest a very little amount of money.
- Then, that company issues some tokens. Those tokens are basically free for them to issue, except for salaries, marketing, etc etc...
- NOw let's supposse they obtain 10 million dollas for those tokens.
- At the end of fiscal year, those 10 million dollars are almost pure profit (minus expenses) and they need to pay taxes on it.
- I mean, even if they do "invest" those millions onto any other asset (ie: real state), at the end of the year all that is seen as profit as it is a HUGE LOT OF MONEY that wasn't invested by the partners in their initial capital. So, again, its profit and needs to pay taxes on it.

Am I correct on this?

[r0ach]

Any ideas why the exchanges are speculating a drop to 1723 in the short term? http://www.bitcoinforecast.com
Although this is not always correct, bitstamp nailed the most recent drop within a few bucks.  

What a bunch of fucktards having an anti-trump disclaimer on their site.  The label has the typical "trump be raycist" statement, but all the word racist means nowadays is white people that refuse to be cuckolds for brown people.

No, racism has not narrowed itself down to fit your narrative of it.

Honestly, I respect your trading posts. I think they are well written and show insight. But whatever politics you have, you would never trade them -  and your skin color -  for being a black person getting stopped by a white cop. Would you.

The world is a place with lots of incompatible people, religions, and cultures.  There is no purpose in practicing Marxism and trying to force them all together so they all kill each other.  Black leaders in the past like Malcom X and Marcus Garvey knew this, that's why they advocated "Pan-Africanism", which essentially means forming a nation state in Africa with blacks only run by blacks because that's the only way you will have any type of self determination.

If you click the wikipedia link of what this is, it's essentially black naziism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism

Replace the word "black" with "white" in any of those sentences and suddenly people would have heart palpatations claiming "omg dat be raycist!", but leave the word black there and it's perfectly fine and great!  This is called a double standard, promoting and allowing nationalism for other races while attempting to demonize whites who do the same thing.  White people are no longer putting up with garbage like this of letting Jewish Marxists who control the media tell us how we can act or think.  Their propaganda is now 100% dead and powerless.

It's well known that any nation without an ethnocentric majority collapses.  This is why nations like China and Japan still exist after hundreds or thousands of years, because it's 99% asian people.  Diversity is not "strength"; diversity is weakness and conflict.  The only reason the jews running the media push this garbage is because the history of their existence is moving into a foreign country, forming a state within a state to the detriment of the native inhabitants, practicing insane usury on them, then being expelled from the  country.  This is why they've been kicked out of countries over 100 times now.  It's not other people's fault, it's their own fault.

This is why Europe is being flooded with 3rd worlders right now - a divide and conquer strategy.  Any homogeneous nation on a long enough timeline will always expel or kill the usury banking parasites that infect them.  If you flood the country with a bunch of different warring factions, it's more difficult for anyone to come together for common interests to fix anything or get rid of them.  Those muslims in Europe are being weaponized by the Jews to try and destabilize nations on purpose.  Just like how in America, Jews try to weaponize minorities to fight against whites for them.

Guess who owns all the violent, anti-white rap labels?

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Entertainment_News_5/article_8500.shtml

I hate to break it to you, but there's only 3 real powers in this world right now:  whites, jews, and asians.  Everyone else is just some type of pawn or insignificant bystander while the murderous death cult known as international zionism actively plots against everyone else.

[elebit]

Yes, you need an argument. Regardless of your opinion on CSW, his points stand on their own. And it's not like this is some new oddball claim he is discussing. It is an aspect of SegWit that we have known since inception, bot for some reason never gets discussed.

Never? It's one of the standard arguments that is being trotted out again. Ver/Wu/Wright have some sort of onholy alliance where they recycle the same tired old stuff over and over again. But you mostly see it on Twitter and Reddit where social media presence companies can work their magic.

However, once SegWit activates, the attack surface of a 51% attack takes on a new aspect. If a miner (or a cartel thereof) accumulates 51% of the hashrate, they are able to steal the funds of others.

This is true of all anyone-can-spend softforks. It is true that it is a risk, but this risk is already there with p2sh. And I think pretty much all the big exchanges use that for their wallets, so a successful attack would be a big deal.

When you actually look at the attack, it's kind of hard in practice. It's doubtful that 51% would be enough to sustain it given the variance of mining. But it is certainly possible. It's one of the risks that Bitcoin lives with. The standard six confirmations already go a very long way into mitigating the whole range of possible hashpower majority attacks.

[abercrombie]

UAHF ICO Proposal (Draft)

https://twitter.com/sonmdevelopment/status/876265086146498561

[lost_in_base]

It is happening!

23,6% segwit2x support and going up fast
(last 144 blocks)

[Dakustaking76]

It is happening!

23,6% segwit2x support and going up fast
(last 144 blocks)

What your talking about lal?
If bitcoin No.. beceause were going downside...

[lost_in_base]

It is happening!

23,6% segwit2x support and going up fast
(last 144 blocks)

What your talking about lal?
If bitcoin No.. beceause were going downside...

Great last change to dump..
Pools are finaly updating, no fear of forks anymore,
this all in past hours, market not reacted yet

long time 1000 blocks support value still at 4%, will be up soon..

[Dakustaking76]

It is happening!

23,6% segwit2x support and going up fast
(last 144 blocks)

What your talking about lal?
If bitcoin No.. beceause were going downside...

Great last change to dump..
Pools are finaly updating, no fear of forks anymore,
this all in past hours, market not reacted yet

Where do you see/Find this information?
The market isnt reacting at all
I see litle red candles on chart of kraken..

[lost_in_base]

It is happening!

23,6% segwit2x support and going up fast
(last 144 blocks)

What your talking about lal?
If bitcoin No.. beceause were going downside...

Great last change to dump..
Pools are finaly updating, no fear of forks anymore,
this all in past hours, market not reacted yet

Where do you see/Find this information?
The market isnt reacting at all
I see litle red candles on chart of kraken..

I was about to post:

https://coin.dance/blocks