Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

People converting altcoins to btc to get more bitcoin gold, i think.

How does that work? Holders of clonecoin get another kind of clonecoin?

As long as it's free why not.

Its really frustrating... specially if you own more altcoins than bitcoins. I wasn't actually aware of this another fork, just googled it.

I didn't even extract my bitcoin cash off from the last fork through public/private keys, now another fork? This is frustrating.

I don't think so that alts can go further down though.

It would be frustrating if you are buying into the altcoin hype, and really believe their pump and dump bullshit, and you don't get out in time.. also frustrating if you really believe that this is the "bottom" of the altcoin dump.

I am not saying that I know for sure which way this thing is going because surely the alts can be pumped again, but you gotta think a bit more critically, if you are really so suggestive as to put more than half of your crypto allocation into alts.. I personally put over 95% into bitcoin; however, I can understand if someone might want to put 20% or 30% into alts.. yet I would still consider 50% or more to be quite a stretch and even crazy (and wishful gambling thinking) to be allocating in the 80% or more territory into alts (unless you really have some clairvoyant insight or inside connection).

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[DaRude]

If we can just go up to $6k and then btc2 can be worth $4k at split before it crashes, that'd be great. Mkkaaaaayy!?!?!

[Icygreen]

There we go, everyone feeling a bit better now? Unless you sold of course.
Couldn't resist, Bought back into BCH for the bounce and out again.  Thanks for playing!

[gembitz]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

People converting altcoins to btc to get more bitcoin gold, i think.

How does that work? Holders of clonecoin get another kind of clonecoin?

As long as it's free why not.

Its really frustrating... specially if you own more altcoins than bitcoins. I wasn't actually aware of this another fork, just googled it.

I didn't even extract my bitcoin cash off from the last fork through public/private keys, now another fork? This is frustrating.

I don't think so that alts can go further down though.

It would be frustrating if you are buying into the altcoin hype, and really believe their pump and dump bullshit, and you don't get out in time.. also frustrating if you really believe that this is the "bottom" of the altcoin dump.

I am not saying that I know for sure which way this thing is going because surely the alts can be pumped again, but you gotta think a bit more critically, if you are really so suggestive as to put more than half of your crypto allocation into alts.. I personally put over 95% into bitcoin; however, I can understand if someone might want to put 20% or 30% into alts.. yet I would still consider 50% or more to be quite a stretch and even crazy (and wishful gambling thinking) to be allocating in the 80% or more territory into alts (unless you really have some clairvoyant insight or inside connection).

^"blood in the streets" for ~90% of shitcoins    weeee

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

People converting altcoins to btc to get more bitcoin gold, i think.

How does that work? Holders of clonecoin get another kind of clonecoin?

As long as it's free why not.

Its really frustrating... specially if you own more altcoins than bitcoins. I wasn't actually aware of this another fork, just googled it.

I didn't even extract my bitcoin cash off from the last fork through public/private keys, now another fork? This is frustrating.

I don't think so that alts can go further down though.

Dont get frustrated, it's only temporary until the fork, maybe even sooner

You are pie in the sky simplistic, CristiTCM, if you believe that the only (or the significant) reason for the current BTC price rise is the upcoming hardforks... GET A GRIP...   

[gembitz]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

People converting altcoins to btc to get more bitcoin gold, i think.

How does that work? Holders of clonecoin get another kind of clonecoin?

As long as it's free why not.

Its really frustrating... specially if you own more altcoins than bitcoins. I wasn't actually aware of this another fork, just googled it.

I didn't even extract my bitcoin cash off from the last fork through public/private keys, now another fork? This is frustrating.

I don't think so that alts can go further down though.

Dont get frustrated, it's only temporary until the fork, maybe even sooner

You are pie in the sky simplistic, CristiTCM, if you believe that the only (or the significant) reason for the current BTC price rise is the upcoming hardforks... GET A GRIP...   

^quarterly forks?    lmao

[JayJuanGee]

I didn't know that Flippenings could have Reversinings?  

ETH created too many millionaires. Time to give some back.

Bitcoin created too many billionaires. Time to give some back.

Quiet you!

All seriousness.. alts will probably start there.next leg up here soon as this was the third wave down for alts. If they do not rise up next few days Id become very verg nervous holding.bitcoin. The great crypto breakout was when btc and alts rose together. I had been waiting since 2013 for that. There were many shakeouts before and I knew since alts didnt move with btc that it was a fake.btc rise and it always was.. so if this thing is real.. alts should make a move here..

As a bitcoin holder id be careful what to wish for. Hoping for alts to.crash while btc rises is actually suboptimal to yourself. Not gonna go into why no time right now. Dont believe me? Watch and see.

Don't be ridiculous.  A 20% to 50% fall in various alts (or even in the alt market overall) is not necessarily going to have any real dampening effect on bitcoin.   In other words there does not have to be a direct correlation (nor causation) for bitcoin to appreciate 50% or 100% in the coming weeks.

You are trying to act as if the tail wags the dog, and dogs just don't work like that (and neither do tails).    

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.

You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream

Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.

[sidhujag]

I didn't know that Flippenings could have Reversinings?  

ETH created too many millionaires. Time to give some back.

Bitcoin created too many billionaires. Time to give some back.

Quiet you!

All seriousness.. alts will probably start there.next leg up here soon as this was the third wave down for alts. If they do not rise up next few days Id become very verg nervous holding.bitcoin. The great crypto breakout was when btc and alts rose together. I had been waiting since 2013 for that. There were many shakeouts before and I knew since alts didnt move with btc that it was a fake.btc rise and it always was.. so if this thing is real.. alts should make a move here..

As a bitcoin holder id be careful what to wish for. Hoping for alts to.crash while btc rises is actually suboptimal to yourself. Not gonna go into why no time right now. Dont believe me? Watch and see.

Don't be ridiculous.  A 20% to 50% fall in various alts (or even in the alt market overall) is not necessarily going to have any real dampening effect on bitcoin.   In other words there does not have to be a direct correlation (nor causation) for bitcoin to appreciate 50% or 100% in the coming weeks.

You are trying to act as if the tail wags the dog, and dogs just don't work like that (and neither do tails).    

You misunderstand the jist of my post. Its not.about that at all. Try to think.a bit more.about it. Put your.thinking cap one.if you got one.

 If you dont understand the true fundamentals driving this market and you are trading (assuming you are if your here) then your investing blindly.. that person is not any better than roach the infamous blind bat that doesnt understand how money works.

[sidhujag]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.

You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream

Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.

Nope without sidechains.bitcoin cannot.expand usecases horizontally across markets. This is why alts exist and this is why the famous reddit posts.about how the announcement of sidecbains by blockstream devs were to officially kill any hope for alts will go down in in history as a fairly important and large scale miscalculation of this market dynamics. Well ofcourse sidechains were put on hold and alts gained vs btc because of the reason that some or a few actually do provide utility. We are still early on the curve so any short term blunders in price have no affect on fundamentals which are the true driver of any market. My thinking is that aslong as the macro trend is still intact regards to alts vs btc that the whole market remains bullish until that trend breaks. I leave the exercise to you on figuring out why.

[JayJuanGee]

I didn't know that Flippenings could have Reversinings?  

ETH created too many millionaires. Time to give some back.

Bitcoin created too many billionaires. Time to give some back.

Quiet you!

All seriousness.. alts will probably start there.next leg up here soon as this was the third wave down for alts. If they do not rise up next few days Id become very verg nervous holding.bitcoin. The great crypto breakout was when btc and alts rose together. I had been waiting since 2013 for that. There were many shakeouts before and I knew since alts didnt move with btc that it was a fake.btc rise and it always was.. so if this thing is real.. alts should make a move here..

As a bitcoin holder id be careful what to wish for. Hoping for alts to.crash while btc rises is actually suboptimal to yourself. Not gonna go into why no time right now. Dont believe me? Watch and see.

Don't be ridiculous.  A 20% to 50% fall in various alts (or even in the alt market overall) is not necessarily going to have any real dampening effect on bitcoin.   In other words there does not have to be a direct correlation (nor causation) for bitcoin to appreciate 50% or 100% in the coming weeks.

You are trying to act as if the tail wags the dog, and dogs just don't work like that (and neither do tails).    

You misunderstand the jist of my post. Its not.about that at all. Try to think.a bit more.about it. Put your.thinking cap one.if you got one.

 If you dont understand the true fundamentals driving this market and you are trading (assuming you are if your here) then your investing blindly.. that person is not any better than roach the infamous blind bat that doesnt understand how money works.

If I misunderstand the jist of your post, then maybe you could clarify such supposed misunderstanding?


I am suggesting that you are giving way too much fucking weight to the importance of alts, yet I do not claim to know the exact percentage of importance  - of alts, except for making the claim that you are giving too much weight to them in your suggestion that somehow bitcoin is dependent on the performance of alts in order to perform well.  Sure, I will give it to you that there is a symbiotic relationship going on that likely feeds both ways - but suggesting some kind of whiny hope that bitcoin folks better hope that alts perform well, otherwise the performance of bitcoin will be mediocre.. blah blah blah.. ... again... bitcoin is the dog, here.. not the tail...

Now, if I got this wrong, then please clarify.

Regarding my trading practice or abilities, I am doing just fine.  Thanks for asking.  Sure, my overall portfolio does better if BTC prices go up (that is why I invest in bitcoin and accumulate bitcoin), yet on the other hand, my portfolio also profits from volatility (and I presume that there is going to be a certain amount of volatility). 

Even though sometimes, I may make some short term BTC price predictions, my BTC trading strategy is barely altered by any of my anticipations and I largely just keep the same strategy no matter what the price direction.  In that regard, the totality would have been doing wonderful with BTC prices at $1k; however, currently we got about 3.8x greater prices, so my BTC portfolio is doing about 3.8x above wonderful and a lot of icing on the cake and a lot of margin for BTC prices to go down, if they end up going down.  In any event, I do watch some of the alts, from time to time, but believe that largely I do not really need to know a whole hell-of-a-lot about alts in order to keep up with my current trading practice and remain profitable and even flippantly reject your seemingly tail wagging the dog crypto hypothesis.     

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.

You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream

Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.

Nope without sidechains.bitcoin cannot.expand usecases horizontally across markets. This is why alts exist and this is why the famous reddit posts.about how the announcement of sidecbains by blockstream devs were to officially kill any hope for alts will go down in in history as a fairly important and large scale miscalculation of this market dynamics. Well ofcourse sidechains were put on hold and alts gained vs btc because of the reason that some or a few actually do provide utility. We are still early on the curve so any short term blunders in price have no affect on fundamentals which are the true driver of any market. My thinking is that aslong as the macro trend is still intact regards to alts vs btc that the whole market remains bullish until that trend breaks. I leave the exercise to you on figuring out why.

You are coming off as a bit of a pretentious prick, in your attempt to assert that you have some kind of deeper understanding of the importance of alts - without citing any authority but merely referring to supposed authority and making vague amorphous statements about seeming inadequacies of bitcoin to provide certain use cases.

No matter the case, we can make our investment choices, and you seem to be a bit out of place here, in this thread, if you want to uptalk the importance of alts (and their supposed contribution the the crypto space).  Largely and generally, alts are copying bitcoin, and trying to find various use cases to distinguish themselves from bitcoin.  Sure some of the uses of these alt coins are going to get absorbed into bitcoin - whether you refer to the vague authority of some nonspecific reddit thread or otherwise (is that r/btc, by the way?)....

Anyhow, none of us are the complete knowledge of any of these crypto-space dynamics and there is a whole hell-of-a lot going on in the space - so I am not claiming to be some kind of deity regarding which alt cryptos are going to possibly be more useful than others, and I really don't give too much of a ratt's ass about them.  Right now, the main player on the block remains bitcoin, and likely we are experiencing some realization from the crypto community regarding that reality..... .so all of this does not conclude that there are not some decent and wonderful cryptospace developments that are not pump and dumps, and surely there are - but I would suggest most of us keep our eyes on the prize, which remains bitcoin, and do not get too distracted by the multitude of bullshit alts that you are amorphously trying to claim some kind of importance.. and amorphously claiming BTC to be in adequate in order that you can perpetuate your nonsense and seemingly pro altcoin thesis.

[RoomBot]

You misunderstand the jist of my post. Its not.about that at all. Try to think.a bit more.about it. Put your.thinking cap one.if you got one.

Are you texting and driving again, Sid?

[sidhujag]

Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.

You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream

Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.

Nope without sidechains.bitcoin cannot.expand usecases horizontally across markets. This is why alts exist and this is why the famous reddit posts.about how the announcement of sidecbains by blockstream devs were to officially kill any hope for alts will go down in in history as a fairly important and large scale miscalculation of this market dynamics. Well ofcourse sidechains were put on hold and alts gained vs btc because of the reason that some or a few actually do provide utility. We are still early on the curve so any short term blunders in price have no affect on fundamentals which are the true driver of any market. My thinking is that aslong as the macro trend is still intact regards to alts vs btc that the whole market remains bullish until that trend breaks. I leave the exercise to you on figuring out why.

You are coming off as a bit of a pretentious prick, in your attempt to assert that you have some kind of deeper understanding of the importance of alts - without citing any authority but merely referring to supposed authority and making vague amorphous statements about seeming inadequacies of bitcoin to provide certain use cases.

No matter the case, we can make our investment choices, and you seem to be a bit out of place here, in this thread, if you want to uptalk the importance of alts (and their supposed contribution the the crypto space).  Largely and generally, alts are copying bitcoin, and trying to find various use cases to distinguish themselves from bitcoin.  Sure some of the uses of these alt coins are going to get absorbed into bitcoin - whether you refer to the vague authority of some nonspecific reddit thread or otherwise (is that r/btc, by the way?)....

Anyhow, none of us are the complete knowledge of any of these crypto-space dynamics and there is a whole hell-of-a lot going on in the space - so I am not claiming to be some kind of deity regarding which alt cryptos are going to possibly be more useful than others, and I really don't give too much of a ratt's ass about them.  Right now, the main player on the block remains bitcoin, and likely we are experiencing some realization from the crypto community regarding that reality..... .so all of this does not conclude that there are not some decent and wonderful cryptospace developments that are not pump and dumps, and surely there are - but I would suggest most of us keep our eyes on the prize, which remains bitcoin, and do not get too distracted by the multitude of bullshit alts that you are amorphously trying to claim some kind of importance.. and amorphously claiming BTC to be in adequate in order that you can perpetuate your nonsense and seemingly pro altcoin thesis.

Forgive me I am a developer. Its in my nature to be cryptic. I also hate typing and im INTJ. I say just the necessary for those.that understand.
Its not pro alts.. its pro crypto. Perhaps im more confident in it because ive been waiting for this exact setup since 2013. Its like in 2010 i was saying you better buy US on forexfactory to anyone I knew. I saw fundamentally that USD and us equities would rise together even though that made no sense in context. However it did happen. Ive been planning for this specific wave since 2013 (its the big one if alts and.btc to up together, until they dont) Dm me and we can get on a call and chat. Not typing it up here. No time for that. Its not rocket science really.. but perhaps I took it for granted that others can also see it. Anyways chat later if you want.

[Lauda]

You obviously don't spend much time in alt land.

I spend enough time, and the statement is valid. It is referring to other things than what you have in mind, which is why it is confusing for you.

You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream

This statement is completely false on all levels -> you're an idiot. Stop posting bullshit.

Forgive me I am a developer. Its in my nature to be cryptic.

Self-proclaimed, non-existing, nature of a random developer. 

Bitstamp | Total bids: 67088511 USD. Total asks: 2318 BTC. Ratio: 28936.06265 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0660 seconds

[bitserve]

In aprox. 7 hours Catalonia regional president Puigdemont is scheduled to speak. Nobody knows if he will do as promised and unilaterally declare independency or cowardly back-off on his word.

Let's see if it has any impact on price... or maybe we are already experiencing its influence.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out].

Forgive me I am a developer. Its in my nature to be cryptic. I also hate typing and im INTJ. I say just the necessary for those.that understand.

These are not really great excuses for your failure and refusal to communicate clearly on a public forum, and then blame me because I am asking for clarification, specifics and elaboration.

Think about your comment that you say things only for those who understand (or are at your level) comes off as quite pretentious and even presumptive that you are either smarter than other people or that your unique perspective is special.

The fact of the matter is that each of us has perspectives, and sure some people are smarter than others, but I would not necessarily conclude that I am smarter than someone else based on a manner of communicating or knowing certain secret things, and likely a sign of social and communicative intelligence is actually begging able to explain points that you make.  You are the one that made the points regarding the supposed dependency relationship of bitcoin to the alt coin market, not me, and I was just criticizing your point or alternatively attempting to obtain some clarification through my criticism of such point(s).

Its not pro alts.. its pro crypto.

You seem to be getting caught up on semantics, here, and maybe at some point both of us loses whatever the fuck the earlier points were.

I think in recent times, I have been becoming more and more critical of others who go down the path of conflating various cryptos and acting as if bitcoin just happens to be one of the many crypto options.  It is a form of either failing and/or refusing to recognize distinguishing aspects of bitcoin or purposefully framing false equivalencies in order to either denigrate bitcoin or to pump alt coin trashes by acting like they are nearly the same thing.. blah blah blah.

By the way, I have no problem with the concept of being pro-crypto or even being excited about the many possible contributions of a variety of alt coin projects and ICOs... so long as we can recognize some of the scam marketing going on with a lot of them, too.  If we try to act as if they are all legit and not motivated by perverted marketing, then likely we are either perpetuating myths, living in a fantasy or possibly purposefully scheming.

Perhaps im more confident in it because ive been waiting for this exact setup since 2013.

Out of your own imagination, you are trying to describe some kind of pattern that likely does not exist and is largely based on a figment of your imagination - perhaps even with a fallacy of trying to put too much emphasis in predicting the future on some kind of self-selected past pattern that you believe to exist - again a kind of false equivalency in suggesting that there is some kind of rule that alts must pump at the same time as bitcoin or some variation of that nonsense that is no rule at all, but only something that you are hoping will happen without any real evidence to support it... and even if you end up being correct and it happens, it does not mean that it was either inevitable or that you predicted it properly...   but yeah, guys like you who fail to speak in specifics, seem to always be able to later proclaim that whatever nonsense you were predicting ended up being correct... 

Its like in 2010 i was saying you better buy US on forexfactory to anyone I knew. I saw fundamentally that USD and us equities would rise together even though that made no sense in context. However it did happen.

Why does it matter?  Do you have some kind of inferiority complex that you need to describe yourself as some kind of insightful deity?

Are you trying to sell a consultation service or something?

Yeah, great, we can sometimes see a trend or a pattern and we can place some of our additional money in the direction that we believe is more likely to occur... great.. nothing wrong with that. 

Hopefully, you realize that in the end, these are a bunch of probable outcomes, and maybe you were able to predict a more likely outcome, and once the outcome takes place, it becomes 100% - however, nothing is 100% when it is in the prediction mode, and each of us come to differing conclusions regarding what kind of probability we assign to a specific outcome and maybe even how comfortable we are in concluding a certain outcome, whether it is assigning 60% to 70% or some narrower or broader range depending on our confidence level and the extent to which we feel that we understand a large number (or not) of the material factors that goes into making such a prediction about a future event.   

Ive been planning for this specific wave since 2013 (its the big one if alts and.btc to up together, until they dont)

Sure it is possible that you could be correct, maybe a 30% chance or something like that, or maybe I am wrong and there is a 70% chance that you are correct; however, I would not put all of my eggs in a basket that is predicting something based on historical events and also circumstances that have changed too, and have you actually accounted for important and material factors in making you prediction?

Dm me and we can get on a call and chat.

I see no reason for that.  Sometimes if there is progress being made, then perhaps some kind of direct private discussion or chat could be useful - otherwise I don't see the point.

I made my points and you made your points, and my points seem better than yours... hahahhahahaa

Not typing it up here. No time for that.

Yes.. I see you are not really able to back up your various conclusions, and I am not even sure if it matters that much, except the fact that you are speaking in conclusory nonsense and trying to identify a pattern that likely does not exist and has perhaps a 30% or so chance of playing out.

Its not rocket science really..

Of course, simplifying markets and human behavior is not rocket science.   You can say whatever the fuck you want and you can predict whatever the fuck you want, but does not mean that you know what you are talking about merely because you assert your conclusions without giving any kind of meaningful basis regarding how you got there besides your amorphous and wishful thinking about sensing a pattern that altcoins and bitcoin pumps together.

but perhaps I took it for granted that others can also see it.

Well, that is one of the things that happens when you communicate in amorphous conclusions.  There are some people who might agree with your various premises and conclusions and others who will not.

Anyways chat later if you want.

I don't mind sticking with the public thread.  I don't see any point to chatting privately about this particular topic.

[rupeshgandhre]

There are few ICO wherein you can get 30% disscounts and profit share as well.


Bitcoin's going great...

But what the hell is happening with altcoins? Can't we follow the old rule? When bitcoin goes up, alts go up too?
[/quote]

If you think that there is such a "rule", then your thinking is deluded.

Sure, sometimes there is correlation... sometimes there is coattail dynamics, sometimes there is pumpening that goes beyond bitcoin, but these are not rules..   Every pump and dump cycle has it's own dynamics that may not be exactly predictable, but in this case there does seem to be some possible recognition of value.. that is bitcoin is much fucking more valuable than a bunch of copycat white papers, claiming to be bitcoin 2.0, with features that largely could be built upon bitcoin or a sidechain of bitcoin..  So it is not that the alts do not provide some value, but frequently their issuing of coins causes way more perception of value rather than fundamental value in terms of various networking and building that takes time rather than pure theories.
[/quote]
You cant do sidechains.. federated peg doesnt work. Spv proofs give miners too much power. You need quorum of oracles to sign off. It wont be done on btc as it requires bonded validators.. a pow+pos hybrid design. A trustless sidechain design isnt in the cards for blockstream
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Well, whatever is the proper term, we do not need a bunch of these ICOs that are claiming to be able to do something better than bitcoin.. whether it is a sidechain or some other technical way in which a lot of the various proposed functionality (to the extent that they are valuable within bitcoin and blockchain) will likely become part of bitcoin or some kind of related bitcoin appendage.
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Nope without sidechains.bitcoin cannot.expand usecases horizontally across markets. This is why alts exist and this is why the famous reddit posts.about how the announcement of sidecbains by blockstream devs were to officially kill any hope for alts will go down in in history as a fairly important and large scale miscalculation of this market dynamics. Well ofcourse sidechains were put on hold and alts gained vs btc because of the reason that some or a few actually do provide utility. We are still early on the curve so any short term blunders in price have no affect on fundamentals which are the true driver of any market. My thinking is that aslong as the macro trend is still intact regards to alts vs btc that the whole market remains bullish until that trend breaks. I leave the exercise to you on figuring out why.
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You are coming off as a bit of a pretentious prick, in your attempt to assert that you have some kind of deeper understanding of the importance of alts - without citing any authority but merely referring to supposed authority and making vague amorphous statements about seeming inadequacies of bitcoin to provide certain use cases.

No matter the case, we can make our investment choices, and you seem to be a bit out of place here, in this thread, if you want to uptalk the importance of alts (and their supposed contribution the the crypto space).  Largely and generally, alts are copying bitcoin, and trying to find various use cases to distinguish themselves from bitcoin.  Sure some of the uses of these alt coins are going to get absorbed into bitcoin - whether you refer to the vague authority of some nonspecific reddit thread or otherwise (is that r/btc, by the way?)....

Anyhow, none of us are the complete knowledge of any of these crypto-space dynamics and there is a whole hell-of-a lot going on in the space - so I am not claiming to be some kind of deity regarding which alt cryptos are going to possibly be more useful than others, and I really don't give too much of a ratt's ass about them.  Right now, the main player on the block remains bitcoin, and likely we are experiencing some realization from the crypto community regarding that reality..... .so all of this does not conclude that there are not some decent and wonderful cryptospace developments that are not pump and dumps, and surely there are - but I would suggest most of us keep our eyes on the prize, which remains bitcoin, and do not get too distracted by the multitude of bullshit alts that you are amorphously trying to claim some kind of importance.. and amorphously claiming BTC to be in adequate in order that you can perpetuate your nonsense and seemingly pro altcoin thesis.
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Forgive me I am a developer. Its in my nature to be cryptic. I also hate typing and im INTJ. I say just the necessary for those.that understand.
Its not pro alts.. its pro crypto. Perhaps im more confident in it because ive been waiting for this exact setup since 2013. Its like in 2010 i was saying you better buy US on forexfactory to anyone I knew. I saw fundamentally that USD and us equities would rise together even though that made no sense in context. However it did happen. Ive been planning for this specific wave since 2013 (its the big one if alts and.btc to up together, until they dont) Dm me and we can get on a call and chat. Not typing it up here. No time for that. Its not rocket science really.. but perhaps I took it for granted that others can also see it. Anyways chat later if you want.
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[rjclarke2000]

It's 9.30am here and when I woke up this morning at 6am I was a little disappointed we hadn't hit another ATH overnight.

We will never be at 32k this month at this rate.

[bitserve]

It's 9.30am here and when I woke up this morning at 6am I was a little disappointed we hadn't hit another ATH overnight.

We will never be at 32k this month at this rate.

32K would be a 6x+ increase from current price. At current quarterly growing rates we would need almost a full year for that, you fool!