Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

It looks to me like the idea of "seasteads" is to get together among rich people and not pay taxes to a state, but instead pay for everything (defense, law enforcement, etc.). So you'd end up with two classes of people, the rich, and the people who work for the rich.

Yes, because when everything is blockchain based, only the rich benefit.

Better get rid of your bitcoin now because it's just something for rich people to not pay taxes. Only the rich can use a currency that the government doesn't distribute. It already costs over $5k, only a rich person can afford that.

I guess I should tell the many socialists working on this that their expectations of helping the environment and having self sustaining design, closed loop food systems, renewable energy, recycling systems, a solution for refugees, coral development, etc. is just going to benefit the rich.

A seastead will be a tiny speck on an ocean that is twice the size of all the countries in the world combined. Yet people will still be pissed off if there are rich people out in middle of nowhere being free rich.

The blockchain is not miraculous, it's a technology, it won't solve humankind's problems. And yes, greed is one of our problems. I don't pretend to be immune to it. I used to support communist ideals, but nowadays, I've become cynical, I don't see any way for such ideals to come about aside from being governed by some kind of benevolent AI.

Giving up one childish fantasy in favor of another is not much of an improvement.

Here is what is going to happen. A lot of people are going to die. After that, we may be able to build something better. But first people need to die.

Anybody here wonder how long before Ibian opens fire on a crowd of innocents and Torque calls it a false flag?

I assume most people reading it think that, because that is what they might be inclined to do. Humans project, and most people today are r's. That's why we have an impending collapse the likes of which has not been seen since the romans.

But no, I don't need to do anything. It's unavoidable. I'm just observing for now, and preparing for what's coming.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Burroughs is in Tangiers I don’t think he’ll come back it’s sinister.   

[Arriemoller]

I think I am passed the point where I could sell my stash. The thought of not owning btc is horrible.

I think a 60-75% sell off is not too extreme. My real goal would be to be able to buy property etc with bitcoin in my area.

Although you guys can do what you want, I would really encourage you to think differently. First, selling even a half million $$ worth of bitcoin would incur a HUGE tax penalty right off the top. You took all the risk with your own money, so why would you give your tax agency 40% of all of your gains? It's free money you just gave them.

Secondly, yearly inflation is way higher than most govt's published figures. In the U.S. the actually yearly inflation rate is probably between 6-7%, with spikes in certain goods and services upwards of 9-10%/year. And inflation is rising globally and will continue to get worse and worse. And citizens' wages will continue to stay flat or even go down in the coming decades.

Bottom line, $500K fiat in 2020 will be only worth about $250K of purchasing power in 2035. So holding large amounts of fiat is ill advised. You want your purchasing power to stay flat or increase over time, not decrease. Holding bitcoin long term will beat the snot out of future inflation. Personally for me there is no "exit strategy", I will continue to buy and hold as long as Bitcoin is around, and only spend what I need to live day-to-day, month-to-month, etc.

And if you want to own a house or land, it would be smarter to only liquidate enough bitcoin for a sizable down payment, and then get a really good low fixed rate 30yr loan for the rest. Bitcoin's yearly returns would handily beat, actually crush any 3-4% yearly interest on the loan. Plus both the house/land AND your left over bitcoin would both be increasing in value relative to fiat while you were still making loan payments.

Interesting.

Totally makes sense to be honest that.

Personally I would rather not give any money to the banks even if it doesn't make economical sense. I when I reach my sell of point, the first thing I will do is pay of all debts.

[yefi]

There are some scary people here. I often wonder what roach is like in real life...

Happy-go-lucky, skipping along to Uncle Remus every day.

[DaRude]

It looks to me like the idea of "seasteads" is to get together among rich people and not pay taxes to a state, but instead pay for everything (defense, law enforcement, etc.). So you'd end up with two classes of people, the rich, and the people who work for the rich.

Yes, because when everything is blockchain based, only the rich benefit.

Better get rid of your bitcoin now because it's just something for rich people to not pay taxes. Only the rich can use a currency that the government doesn't distribute. It already costs over $5k, only a rich person can afford that.

I guess I should tell the many socialists working on this that their expectations of helping the environment and having self sustaining design, closed loop food systems, renewable energy, recycling systems, a solution for refugees, coral development, etc. is just going to benefit the rich.

A seastead will be a tiny speck on an ocean that is twice the size of all the countries in the world combined. Yet people will still be pissed off if there are rich people out in middle of nowhere being free rich.

The blockchain is not miraculous, it's a technology, it won't solve humankind's problems. And yes, greed is one of our problems. I don't pretend to be immune to it. I used to support communist ideals, but nowadays, I've become cynical, I don't see any way for such ideals to come about aside from being governed by some kind of benevolent AI.

Giving up one childish fantasy in favor of another is not much of an improvement.

Here is what is going to happen. A lot of people are going to die. After that, we may be able to build something better. But first people need to die.

Anybody here wonder how long before Ibian opens fire on a crowd of innocents and Torque calls it a false flag?

lol

There are some scary people here. I often wonder what roach is like in real life...

It would be cool if we could somehow all post an anonymous self portrait and then have a game where we try to match the picture to the username by voting.

Wouldn't be fun, swastika tattoo would give roach right away

[Heater]

Wouldn't be fun, swastika tattoo would give roach right away

Here he is at work...

[Karartma1]

@Jimbo
Can you please explain why are you keeping on giving updates on Altcash prices?
Are you still invested in that? 

Yep. I'm waiting until I can sell them without risking the anonymity of my bitcoins. The price has been fairly steady after bouncing up and down. I think the market may have discovered the value of this altcoin. I'm willing now to play wait and see.
____

I post the prices daily because lots of others are also still holding what they got gifted in August.

I see your point. I did my transfers with coin control for every single address I had. A bit of a pain but fees were already paid by Roger and Jihan.
Sold @ 0.14 BTC... And I'm living happily after then.

[Wekkel]

Meanwhile, price is holding steady, ready for a pump into the $6,000s again. Decisively, this time. We have been building the biggest base ramp ever for a massive spike upwards in the medium term. I would not be surprised if it would hit $50k or even $100k in that spike.

HODL right now is key.

[ErisDiscordia]

Since I'm French and know what liberalism means, I'd say I've become liberal, not the other way around. I can't understand how you misuse the word in the US, Democrats want to regulate everything, there is nothing liberal about that.

indeed, I agree that the language has become corrupted

People would do well to study up on the French revolution and where concepts like liberalism, nationalism, the right/left divide and eventually communism were born. The way we are throwing these terms around these days, decoupled from all original etymology, is just embarrassing and a massive hindrance to debate.

I used to support communist ideals, but nowadays, I've become cynical, I don't see anyway for such ideals to come about aside from being governed by some kind of benevolent AI.

Those who are not liberal when they are young have no soul.  Those who do not become conservative as they age have no brain.

Indeed, and that is also r/K neatly summed up in one memorable line.

r/K is the new alpha/beta. A way for insecure men to justify feeling superior based on some pseudo-scientific misappropriated concept. Every single sucker using it is describing himself as a K and calling for the regulation (or worse) of the inferior r-people. Oh I wonder where I heard such talk before and how it all turned out.

Giving up one childish fantasy in favor of another is not much of an improvement.

Here is what is going to happen. A lot of people are going to die. After that, we may be able to build something better. But first people need to die.

Anybody here wonder how long before Ibian opens fire on a crowd of innocents and Torque calls it a false flag?

LOL 

[rjclarke2000]

Meanwhile, price is holding steady, ready for a pump into the $6,000s again. Decisively, this time. We have been building the biggest base ramp ever for a massive spike upwards in the medium term. I would not be surprised if it would hit $50k or even $100k in that spike.

HODL right now is key.

This is the best thing I've read all morning. I hope you are correct.

[JayJuanGee]

Meanwhile, price is holding steady, ready for a pump into the $6,000s again. Decisively, this time. We have been building the biggest base ramp ever for a massive spike upwards in the medium term. I would not be surprised if it would hit $50k or even $100k in that spike.

HODL right now is key.

This is the best thing I've read all morning. I hope you are correct.

We are gonna be:


RICH!!!!!!!!!




(that is if we had not already become rich!!!!)


I thought that a little off-putting gayness was keeping with our recent thread theme.

[drbrockcoin]

Hello Wall Observers

So maybe its a little unrelated and a little long winded but I thought I would put this here and see what opinions I get from you people.

So as we all know another fork occurred (sigh). So Bitfinex decided they would support the fork and credit customers with BTG for every BTC.
However what I was not aware of is that for anyone borrowing BTC for margin trading against alts that a negative balance of BTG was added to their account.

Long story short after the fork I ended up with a -0.47 BTG balance in my margin wallet. (This because my various margin trades meant I was borrowing 0.47BTC at the time)

Now does this not seem like a scam? With previous forks if you lent money on the exchange you were not entitles to your BCrash coin. Why am I having to pay for someone elses BTG?

Whats more infuriating is that Bitfinex gave less than 24 hours notice about this policy and they expect all negative BTG balances to be paid off within 2 days. The coins are not even out yet but Bitfinex are somehow trading these shit-tokens anyway. Makes me think there was some collusion with the BTG dicks and this Hong Kong? based exchange.

I sent a complaint to Bitfinex about this and got a response which to me is BULLSHIT.

Here is the message I sent to Bitfinex

Dear Bitfinex
It came to my attention that because I am Margin Trading and have borrowed BTC for certain trades that I now owe 0.47BTG. This is completely unacceptable. Just like on other exchanges like Poloniex if you lend your BTC out at the time of the fork the lender should not be entitled to the BTG. That is the trade off. What makes this more disturbing is that you gave customers a warning the day before the fork (less than 24 hours notice) that this is to occur. And even more worrisome is that you go on and demand these balances be cleared within 3 days.
If anything a system where you are automatically entered into a short position on BTG vs BTC with no time limit would make more sense. However really I don't see why I have to pay for the lenders BTG if they decided to loan out their BTC for margins.

And here is the response I got back today

Hello drbrock

Any loss a user with BTCUSD short or an XXXBTC long incurred on BTG is equal to the increased positive P/L on the BTC shorted. Prefork BTC had the price of BTG calculated in. The moment the snapshot happened, the BTC price dropped immediately and more or less at the same rate as the value of BTG.

Prefork BTC = postfork BTC + BTG
Prefork BTC price was ±5850; Postfork BTC is ± 5680 and BTG is now trading at ±160; combined post fork BTC+BTG = ±5,830

The loss you describe for being required to buy back the BTG that were debited because you had borrowed and sold BTC before the fork, was offset by the profit you could realise due to the dropped BTC value.

Now I dont have a huge BTC stash and I try and trade alts for something of value (Bitcoin) using margin trading. Surely there are other traders on their that must be trading large amounts and have been given massive negative BTG balances that they have to clear.

Has anyone else had this issue?

Sorry for the long somewhat unrelated post but for me there is only one place I come here and its this thread.

FUCKING BTCGOLD... some pricks decide they want to fork around and I have to pay them.

  BTCBTCBTC

[aesma]

And if you want to own a house or land, it would be smarter to only liquidate enough bitcoin for a sizable down payment, and then get a really good low fixed rate 30yr loan for the rest. Bitcoin's yearly returns would handily beat, actually crush any 3-4% yearly interest on the loan. Plus both the house/land AND your left over bitcoin would both be increasing in value relative to fiat while you were still making loan payments.

That's exactly my plan, in the next few months. Except I won't be selling BTC (or only a small number) as I've already got the downpayment in my company's stock.

I must hurry before the crash, though.

[aesma]

drbrockcoin : was there information given by bitfinex about this before the fork ?

[adaseb]

drbrockcoin : was there information given by bitfinex about this before the fork ?

Yes on Oct 23rd

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/230

[Denker]

Meanwhile, price is holding steady, ready for a pump into the $6,000s again. Decisively, this time. We have been building the biggest base ramp ever for a massive spike upwards in the medium term. I would not be surprised if it would hit $50k or even $100k in that spike.

HODL right now is key.

That's a extremely bullish statement!
Such a spike would also mean a massive correction for a longer period of time.
I'd prefer another 12-18months a steady rise as we've seen the last 2 years.Don't know if Bitcoin will be that nice to us.
However this would push up easily to $15k imo without having to worry of another mega crash and bear market imo. Then 1 year consolidation and taking a bit of breath before going with recharged batteries into 2020 for the next halving and going full parabolic!

[Elwar]

FUCKING BTCGOLD... some pricks decide they want to fork around and I have to pay them.

  BTCBTCBTC

I was wondering about that. I had a tiny amount shorted and I figured the BTG -.01 BTG thing was an error. I had about 5 BTC on the exchange so I went to move it to the trading wallet to get rid of my BTG but accidentally put it in margin and it subtracted that tiny amount. I immediately moved that to the trading side and turned it into .1 BTC or so.

These fork alts are like DOGE...the best thing to do with them is get rid of them as soon as you get them.

[mattimann]

BTG is pure Garbage!
Bitfinex is also pure garbage. I created a BTC Withdraw on 23rd. The Withdraw was processed on 25th. Guess what... No BTG!
Beside that, I had never a withdraw from finex beeing processed faster than 2 Day´s, although it gets confirmed Immediately.

And meanwhile the Price of BTG goes to Zeerooo!

[drbrockcoin]

drbrockcoin : was there information given by bitfinex about this before the fork ?

Yes less than 24 hours before the fork (with no prior indication that Bitfinex would support such a fork) there was a general Bitcoin Gold announcement regarding split tokens added for this etc. And towards the end there is one sentence neatly hidden explaining the situation.

Point is they can enact whatever policy they want but with less than 24 hours notice (and thats if you happen to be online to read the announcement as soon as it was published) it is very difficult for me to get out of my margin positions (meaning a huge loss as some are in negative at the moment) or finding a source (such as a friend) who I could have asked to send me enough BTC for the moment the snapshot took place to cover my margins.

[drbrockcoin]

And meanwhile the Price of BTG goes to Zeerooo!

I hope that happens right now, then I will buy their stupid shitcoin for ZERO and they can fuck off