Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Banks in general have always made the most of their profit by interest on lending. Before the crisis, they started giving mortgages to everyone and their mother without any due diligence.... then the defaults came so instead of profit for every mortgage they got loses. Now they are way more careful on lending money, which basically means they are not "selling" their main product. The future looks dark for them.

I remember the time (before the nineties) when if someone wanted a home he had to pay upfront a good amount to the builder, and then go on paying monthly way before the house was even finished building. No mortages bullshit. Banks were not such a big deal. HOusing prices were low as shit.

All the fucking problem of the last decades has been because of lending money to the plebs. That made them think they were "rich" when they weren't. And banks "banked" like bandits on that stupid feeling.

If you borrow money because you don't have it, then you will always stay poor. Only borrow money when you are leveraging for a biggest (safe) return. If you are poor you should be saving instead of borrowing.

People that really "needs" the money, should never, ever borrow the money.

Enough rant.... I am open for criticism.

When I was a student I invested large parts of my student loan, but my professional path has been more or less laid out thanks to long planning (knew before 18 that I wanted to be able to retire around 30-40) so I knew in what proportion I could put loans at stake without destroying myself in any worst case scenario. I made sure to have exceptional grades in a highly sought after field though, so the probability of me failing along the way were virtually negligible and the cost of default was zero (e.g. no job = exemption from repaying the loan without any downsides on my part). In that situation not taking the risk and potentially fixing an error of judgement down the path would've been irrational.

I've seen other plebs do the same (with non-student loans) from a much worse starting position implode though, so you're certainly right. Most people don't know how to manage risk and just go a path of blind faith and there are tons of predatory types just waiting to prey on them.

Either way, the banks are just filling a niche. The real problem are all the idiots who are waiting for the stars to magically align instead of taking their life into their own hands. And the absolute worst are the very same idiots who channel their energy into nagging governments to bend them backwards by legalizing a billion fucking pronouns for idiots who can't just be honest and say that they either always or sometimes prefer dick. Like a bunch of toddlers telling on their siblings instead of learning how not to be a helpless retard.

I did a similar thing regarding investing some of my student loans.

In fact, I have made such attempts all of my life, since graduating from highschool and not having much of a salary.  I pretty much took at least 10% of my post highschool income and I made investments with it.  Some of them were not the best of investments (especially because my inclination has always been relatively low rish because i wanted to have a certain confidence that my return was going to be greater than my borrowing costs), but the practice has always been kinds of dollar cost averaging attempts.

I did not go to college right after high school, but instead started college several years after finishing high school, but I considered the student loan money to be interest free ability to attempt to get returns on "free money" and to build up my nest egg of investment money.. continuing little by little.. and really taking a large number of years to accomplish such building up of decent amounts.

Yeah it makes a lot of sense depending on the rules of the student loans available. The biggest plus for me wasn't the low interest rate, but the fact that there's no issue with defaulting. Hence, I didn't have to worry if I didn't find a job right away or decided to change paths.
I'm actually surprised that investing parts of student loans (where plausible) isn't the norm. You're usually going to spend the money anyways, if not on investments then on booze or whatever floats your boat.

Not sure how sensible that would be in the US, as I've seen some outrageous interest rates and conditions over there. But given the amount of states and their own individual fuckery there could well be some reasonable student loans that basically beg for arbitrage.

Of course, the rules for student loans, including eligibility and interest rates vary with time, but generally speaking there is a certain level of publicly subsidized loans that do not bear interest until after graduating or other qualifying conditions.  So the public student loans are usually preferred to private loans, yet surely, anyone who wants to take this approach needs to assess his/her own situation including how spending the loans and not necessarily using the loans to buy unnecessary consumption goods... and also, there is a certain need to be able to get a job after school to pay back the loans because you would not count on the loan proceeds to earn greater than some of the amounts that was used for necessary living/school expenses. In other words, you still have to attempt to invest wisely, and I think that overally my proceeds from the portion of my student loan investments was merely in 4% to 6% arena, overall, but it still seemed decent, especially getting 0% interest for a decent period of time, which I believe for me was nearly 10 years before I started making payments and continued to receive 0% interest (at least on the first loans the later ones only had a few years of 0%).

Of course, I did not have anything like BTC available during that time, so I am not sure how I would approach BTC based on my then perspective, but likely I would have learned a lot faster because bitcoin allows for way more interaction than the kinds of investments that I was making during my student loan time.

[jojo69]

now we're cooking. thansk guys

you going to download the entire tumblr before it's gone?

[Last of the V8s]

every last recipe
wait how dare you insiuate/
its for a shitcoin. proof of storgae soemthing

[JayJuanGee]

If you are poor you should be saving instead of borrowing.

People that really "needs" the money, should never, ever borrow the money.

Enough rant.... I am open for criticism.

Nothing in this world allows you the increase your financial stability, your profits and your social status like borrowing a hella amount of money.

Though of course you must be smart about what you do with the investments.

I just borrowed 250k€, that's about 7 years of salary for me. The interests are basically 0 if you take inflation into consideration so that's basically just me borrowing to my future self to increase my current income ^^

If I could borrow 4M€ I would

What is your timeline on paying back the loan?   

So your wager would be that bitcoin is going to perform better than your loan for the term of the loan or at least not perform so bad that you are not able to pay back the loan at the end of the term.


It does not sound like a great idea, but if you are buying BTC now (with the proceeds of a loan), then it seems better than buying at higher prices - even $6k or $10k or $17k... But still risky.

I wouldn't take up any type of private loan if I didn't know that I could pay it off even if I burnt through the whole amount. With government backed loans I couldn't care much less if I fucked up since nobody would get harmed by my actions.

I agree with you that the calculation is different with interest bearing loans, but there are still reasonable (even though more risky) ways to use such leverage to your advantage, especially with investing rather than consuming.. and also I do think that you have to be a real prudent person (in term of living within your means) if you are going to include interest bearing leverage in any kind of business, whether bitcoin or otherwise.

[HI-TEC99]

In unrelated, where's a good place to get multiple massive hard disks?

What country are you in?

[serveria.com]

JJG here you must read more posts .... he said to sell traditional stocks to go BIG in BTC, and last time when he sold +- 11k i thought, wasn't bad @ all and surely not when the FIAT was needed for ..... or maybe to buy NOW BTC on the cheap   "BOB knows what his doing, and guess he just throws in a joke from time to time...."

Ok. See. Right there is one of the reasons I outright ignored JJG.

He just fundamentally does not "get it", beyond a certain level.

I've already cashed out enough Bitcorn to comfortably last me the rest of my natural (unnatural ?) life.

Anything I am hodling onto now is a treasure that I am guarding like Smaug. I'm considering it as an inter-generational transfer-of-wealth. Rick and I do not have any children, and our bags will be passed onto our nieces and nephews upon our passing, minus whatever we cash out if things go parabolic.

I still have that $100K USD party that I'm looking to throw somewhere in the Caribbean...

I'm riding this bitch down to zero, if it comes to it, otherwise.

The same here -  all or nothing, I'm ready to go all the way down to zero! And please sign me up the for the party! 

[El duderino_]

JJG here you must read more posts .... he said to sell traditional stocks to go BIG in BTC, and last time when he sold +- 11k i thought, wasn't bad @ all and surely not when the FIAT was needed for ..... or maybe to buy NOW BTC on the cheap   "BOB knows what his doing, and guess he just throws in a joke from time to time...."

Ok. See. Right there is one of the reasons I outright ignored JJG.

He just fundamentally does not "get it", beyond a certain level.

I've already cashed out enough Bitcorn to comfortably last me the rest of my natural (unnatural ?) life.

Anything I am hodling onto now is a treasure that I am guarding like Smaug. I'm considering it as an inter-generational transfer-of-wealth. Rick and I do not have any children, and our bags will be passed onto our nieces and nephews upon our passing, minus whatever we cash out if things go parabolic.

I still have that $100K USD party that I'm looking to throw somewhere in the Caribbean...

I'm riding this bitch down to zero, if it comes to it, otherwise.

you damn look that i'm invited there......

yeah that unnatral..... going for longer live extensions will be expensive keep on good size amount of coins to pay for that shit later on "when we need to go unnatural"

LFC not seen yet?  totally knocked out by that belgium goal last LFC game ?

[julian071]

JJG here you must read more posts .... he said to sell traditional stocks to go BIG in BTC, and last time when he sold +- 11k i thought, wasn't bad @ all and surely not when the FIAT was needed for ..... or maybe to buy NOW BTC on the cheap   "BOB knows what his doing, and guess he just throws in a joke from time to time...."

Ok. See. Right there is one of the reasons I outright ignored JJG.

He just fundamentally does not "get it", beyond a certain level.

I've already cashed out enough Bitcorn to comfortably last me the rest of my natural (unnatural ?) life.

Anything I am hodling onto now is a treasure that I am guarding like Smaug. I'm considering it as an inter-generational transfer-of-wealth. Rick and I do not have any children, and our bags will be passed onto our nieces and nephews upon our passing, minus whatever we cash out if things go parabolic.

I still have that $100K USD party that I'm looking to throw somewhere in the Caribbean...

I'm riding this bitch down to zero, if it comes to it, otherwise.

I'll bring some beer!

[Last of the V8s]

In unrelated, where's a good place to get multiple massive hard disks?

What country are you in?

mainland Europe
we capitulated 

[HI-TEC99]

In unrelated, where's a good place to get multiple massive hard disks?

What country are you in?

mainland Europe
we capitulated 

The only shops I know of that operate all over mainland Europe are ebay and amazon.

I got put off buying hard drives on ebay when one arrived wrapped in an old pair of underpants. Maybe I just picked the wrong seller.

[Dig Bicks]

[Last of the V8s]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/for-the-first-time-teens-want-fortnite-v-bucks-and-cryptocurrency-instead-of-cash-2018-11-14
they realy want iphones but w/e

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/a2ok6f/digital_currencies_pop_up_on_teenage_holiday/

[Last of the V8s]

In unrelated, where's a good place to get multiple massive hard disks?

What country are you in?

mainland Europe
we capitulated 

The only shops I know of that operate all over mainland Europe are ebay and amazon.

I got put off buying hard drives on ebay when one arrived wrapped in an old pair of underpants. Maybe I just picked the wrong seller.

certain gentlemend around here would pay more for that no doubt. many thx.

[dutchlincoln]

Hey guys.... Lets not plan the funeral yet pls? First i want to be able to experience a peak ATH as well okay?  

[JayJuanGee]

Data/information is only as good as its source. Highest level being 15, not bullish. Edit: Bitcoin Cash has a "16". 

Bitcoin SV? 100.

#justsayin'

Actually only 86 currently...was 100 2 weeks ago.

No. The term is not bitcoin+cash+sv, it is bitcoin+sv. And it is trending currently at 100.

Even if it were 86, you are still making my point for me.

In this thread, we already know that part of the motivation of the bcash forks has been to attempting to put bitcoin back into their name(s),

Back? Sorry, dude or dudette - it was always there. Note the term being searched on the google: bitcoin+sv ... trending upwards.

Of course, you can have your little fantasy that bcash is really bitcoin, but I doubt anyone who is bitcoin aware is going to let you get away with that bullshit, and especially in this thread.  You may have to go back to r/btc for that kind of nonsense talk.

Get it into your bcash shilling head, the bcash forks are still going to be referred to as bcash..

As but one of many counterexamples: CMC.

Who gives a shit.... bcash is still bcash.   It seems quite doubtful that they are going to be able to rebrand as a kind of bitcoin, so you can proclaim your fantasy all you want, it just seems like pie in the sky rather than any kind of real development with those kinds of ongoing bcash shit projects including whatever shrinking territory they are currently battling within those scam-ladden camps.

... caught up in the myth that bcash has value.

Manifestly, both branches of the Bitcoin Cash fork -- ABC and SV -- have value. Not as much as I would like, but $Billions nevertheless.

Of course, they currently have some value, and seems like the value is shrinking and going to continue to shrink, but whatever, you can buy or hodl that shit if you think that it is a good bet.. that is your choice... and really deviating into off-topicness, here except to the extent that some of the battle in that camp still seems to have some relevance to BTC prices both in terms of possible public confusion and likely whales taking advantage of such  seeming ongoing public confusion - which you also like to propagate on an ongoing basis.

Do you believe that exaggeration and hyperbole makes your arguments stronger?

What do you mean?  I think that I am using a sufficient amount of exaggeration and/or hyperbole in order to make various legitimate points, not to distort any facts.  Fact of the matter is that bcash and its variants are shit, but they also can serve as a bitcoin attack vector, so surely it seems preferrable that they would die quickly, but I will concede that non of us bitcoin investors can really relax and forget about various aspects of bcash when there are folks involved with the project that are able to physically, fiscally,  and psychologically have affects on bitcoin including propaganda bullshit, so it does not really seem to serve much purpose to give benefit of the doubt to bcash nutjobs and the shittiness of those projects, and accordingly sometimes exaggeration and hyperbole might more clearly make the proper points about those crappy projects that guys like you continue to pump (likely out of hopium and devious strong arm tactics that could get employed rather than any solid bcash fundamentals).

[El duderino_]

[Last of the V8s]

Hey guys.... Lets not plan the funeral yet pls? First i want to be able to experience a peak ATH as well okay?  

So you made an account on the very day of the ATH (temporary, previous) then you buggerred about with mining a few months later.
What's up with you man? did you not buy at the top liek a good noob?

[Hueristic]

[Dig Bicks]

Hey guys.... Lets not plan the funeral yet pls? First i want to be able to experience a peak ATH as well okay?  

So you made an account on the very day of the ATH (temporary, previous) then you buggerred about with mining a few months later.
What's up with you man? did you not buy at the top liek a good noob?

I see the scam master OGnasty negged you,  The trust system on this forum is such bullshit, they should just do away with it.  I wouldn't trust any of these DT members.

[El duderino_]

Hey guys.... Lets not plan the funeral yet pls? First i want to be able to experience a peak ATH as well okay?  

what if i told you the next ATH could be a triple one

hope we all gonna enjoy that together and a small extension to that 100k Number, so all of us Wo's can have that bahama's party
and better late than never into BTC
there are always new strong hands needed