Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD =/= 1 USD due to money printing.

Wrong. You are talking about relative value here. If so, then 1BTC != 1BTC too.

And that not even considering forks and some other shit........

Relative value comes from supply and demand. Central banks are not just devaluing currency with the printing press, they are functionally changing and corroding it.

It's as if they had the power to make your computer worse just by printing some more, which is obviously not the case for computers. Yes, the relative value of computers changes if you shit out a lot of them, due to basic supply and demand.

They do however retain the same absolute functionality no matter how many there are.

This is not the case with fiat currency. If you print too much of it fiat loses all of its functionality as money and this happens on a gradient, e.g. the more you print the more useless your currency becomes.

If you create an infinite amount of computers the only thing that will happen is that everybody will be able to have a pretty nice tool.

Some of those points are strictly true and some are arguable. Anyways, no matter how many differences you can enumerate between USD and BTC... those are all inherent characteristics of each USD and BTC. And considering all those differential characteristics still 1 USD = 1 USD and 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Unless you are comparing 1 USD that is not really a USD (with its inherent government controlled inflation) and a different USD (like, I donno, one that is completely different?). But that would the same than comparing one Bitcoin (BTC) to one Bitcoin (Bcash lol). They are different things, so the equal thing is not really valid even if some people might try to argue they are.

Anyways none of this really matter...

As a maths guy, can you say 1BTC = 1BTC and, at the same time and for similar reasons, say that 1 USD != 1 USD?

And... even if you can (wtf?) do you really think that is a good moto to use to show the differential advantages of BTC? I think it is a completely ridiculous one. Btw, 1BSV = 1BSV too.

Again, USD changes functionally while BTC does not. The latter is 100% predictable and reliable, the former is up to the whims of the printing press. What was 1 USD last week is no longer 1 USD today. And unlike with BTC that is not due to 'relative value' to other goods based on supply and demand.

Nobody would've been able to almost eradicate entire nations if BTC was the currency of choice, because the functionality is consistent and constant over time. Meanwhile with central banks and fiat currencies all it takes is some good old hyperinflation or complete loss of trust which turns fiat from money into useless paper.

The only way you can accurately argue $1 = $1 is if you refer to the paper and its specific print. As money this is untrue.

[1715182415]

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[1715182415]

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[bitserve]

Again, USD changes functionally while BTC does not. The latter is 100% predictable and reliable, the former is up to the whims of the printing press. What was 1 USD last week is no longer 1 USD today. And unlike with BTC that is not due to 'relative value' to other goods based on supply and demand.

Nobody would've been able to almost eradicate entire nations if BTC was the currency of choice, because the functionality is consistent and constant over time. Meanwhile with central banks and fiat currencies all it takes is some good old hyperinflation or complete loss of trust which turns fiat from money into useless paper.

The only way you can accurately argue $1 = $1 is if you refer to the paper and its specific print. As money this is untrue.

Yes, I do agree with your comparison between BTC and USD. That's why I do like BTC.

But still...

1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here) = 1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here)

It's just an equal sign with both *IDENTICAL* values at each side of the equal sign. That shouldn't be debatable.

Like "cmqñljer=cmqñljer" where I don't know what "cmqñljer" really is, nor its characteristics, nor I do really care... but I can safely say that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer.

But... If I wanted to really explain its advantages I would focus on them instead of just saying that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer which I don't think is a very good argument to convince anyone. And the same applies to 1BTC = 1BTC.

Anyways, people will keep repeating it at each and every dump as some sort of miraculous Vodoo. I know. I will just have to live with it as I have done all this years

[JayJuanGee]

Sure, you are correct, Review Master, but miners can work at a loss for extended periods and also they will self-adjust their behavior and difficulty will adjust too... so miner costs and behavior will also adjust to the price.. to some degree..

Thanks for your supportive reply. But it's time to think about the sutiuation after the bitcoin halving. Before halving, it's sure that miner will definitely self-adjust. What will happend in the next , the cost of mining of one bitcoin will be double than now after bitcoin halving events and if the correction still going on & make a new bottom less than $3K . Than definitely , everyone will be worry about this. Also china has the most mining power of bitcoin and COVID-19 virus affect the whole economy as well as every country is lossing the connection to others. So it might be the upcoming worst thing in bitcoin history. So, pray for the affected person of covid-19 virus and hope that the nightmare of new bottom less than $3K never comes out.

At the end , i just want to thank all of those who are positive in this current situation and hodl their precious.

of course there is debate about whether miners follow BTC price or BTC price follows miner costs

yeah, i'm agree with this opinion.

I don't think that it matters if we are talking about before the halvening or after the halvening, individual miners are still making the same kinds of game theory calculations, and we have already seen two halvenings that largely resulted in ongoing increases in hashrate.

Sure there are proclamations of doom and gloom and even mining death spirals, but in the end, a lot of those doom and gloom assertions are just FUD spreading nonsense - and surprisingly that bitcoin continues to incentivize miners to direct their mining towards bitcoin, and if you either want to bet against bitcoin based on nonsense, or attempt to imply doom and gloom, then that is your choice.. it is just not logical unless you are merely pumping some nonsense narrative.

[Joe-Bloggs]

The virus is a worry. I originally overreacted and purchased 200 n100 masks, 4 pairs of swimming goggles and 10 entire boxes of 12 x250ml hand sanitizer, this expensive water filter big berky, 400 dollars worth of cans, pasta,cereals and rice. I have some weaponry and even a thermal scope that i traded for a weird modern art kind of picture a while back. Only used it one time with my friend to search for his dog that escaped at night.
If things get really bad I will do my best to survive the virus or civil unrest. I hope things will not get crazy and that in a few months we get back on track.
The only thing of any possible future value that you can protect easily is your private key. In my area I expect nobody would really even consider the residents would have such a thing. The other thing is, if I didn't make it out of this, then that's another 1.1 btc deflation.  
I do agree that when something like this happens, it does put investing and striving after an improved living standard into perspective. Although now I have a whole btc I am sitting here almost smug and happy. I don't even want to hear about covid19.
I finally become a member of the new wealthy elite in digital money   and we immediately get drive back to the barter system.

[JayJuanGee]

If I am allowed to post my prediction, BTC will go as down as 3500 USD within a week. Buying after that will be a good investment if you are into it for years.

Bitcoin is already a good investment.

There is no need to wait for a price (such as $3,500 that might not ever come).  Bitcoin already corrected 65% in such a short time that there is no need to wait for a further opportunity.

Of course, having a long investment horizon remains a good strategy to perhaps cause any investor to temper his investment and likely attempt to employ DCA rather than attempting to time some market move that might not take place. 

In other words, we already had a great opportunity, yesterday, and we continue to have a great opportunity today and into the future, especially anyone who is either investing over a longer time period, and maybe such investor  might also consider employing a bit of front loading his/her investment at these prices, but no need to go crazy in such, even though bitcoin remains a decently likely ongoing asymmetric bet to the upside.

[JayJuanGee]

Today is the first day in like 2 years my nocoiner friend mentioned BTC and that he'd like to buy because he heard "it dropped 50%"   Bullish!  

Wow. Most people of that ilk think either 'it's ded' or 'it'll go lower' and then buy 5 minutes before the peak several years later.

Your man sounds like he was born to it.

When i picked up the kids at school today (which is closing down for at least two weeks now) i heard other parents talk about investing in bitcoin, because the price sunk $1000 (...) "No, it's even down $2000! ...", "Then i'm gonna buy for sure now!" ... (and so on). I didn't join the talk, but what i really heard from it was:

"Bitcoin is low, i'm gonna catch the falling knife"
"Bitcoin is even lower, i'm finally buy the blood and become a coiner"

So i guess that BTC will tank even lower after the rise from $4.x cools off.
Many people gonna loose their newly invested money to the whales, at least to some good percentage.
I'll wait for it. I can still buy on the way up until about $6.5k if i'm totally wrong.
My final word (opinion): Bitcoin will go lower before the slow rise to next ATH. When i look at all the pumps after 04/2019, i'd say the bottom could be somewhere between $3 and $3.5k.

You sound a bit too bearish, out of memory.  After a quickie 63% correction, it is likely better to be betting on up rather than down.. although I know that you are not shorting.. but you are hesitating to buy, and I suppose that is not really bad.. it is just seeming a bit overly pessimistic.

Damn you guys typed a lot yesterday.

That's what I am talking about.

[JSRAW]

Some day I will buy a baseball bat and start punching everyone that repeats that same old shit about one BTC being still one BTC.

lucille wants blood?

3 candidates - BitcoinGirl.Club, El duderino_ , fillippone ( he started saying that too, go easy on him)

[marcus_of_augustus]

I'm printing paper wallets on toilet paper now.

It's the virus times version of Casascius coins

But that only works if you have toilet paper on hand. If you're fresh out and you call around and find the nearest tissue paper is at a store hundreds or thousands of miles away, you can simply drive to a closer ATM and get several sheets to wipe. Here in the US, that may be 20 bucks per wipe, but you do what you got to do.

Guys look at the master races who dont use toilet paper at all but a so called bidet

How do you get your arse dry afterwards? Do they have an arse dryer like a hot air hand dryer?

full circle.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Again, USD changes functionally while BTC does not. The latter is 100% predictable and reliable, the former is up to the whims of the printing press. What was 1 USD last week is no longer 1 USD today. And unlike with BTC that is not due to 'relative value' to other goods based on supply and demand.

Nobody would've been able to almost eradicate entire nations if BTC was the currency of choice, because the functionality is consistent and constant over time. Meanwhile with central banks and fiat currencies all it takes is some good old hyperinflation or complete loss of trust which turns fiat from money into useless paper.

The only way you can accurately argue $1 = $1 is if you refer to the paper and its specific print. As money this is untrue.

Yes, I do agree with your comparison between BTC and USD. That's why I do like BTC.

But still...

1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here) = 1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here)

It's just an equal sign with both *IDENTICAL* values at each side of the equal sign. That shouldn't be debatable.

Like "cmqñljer=cmqñljer" where I don't know what "cmqñljer" really is, nor its characteristics, nor I do really care... but I can safely say that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer.

But... If I wanted to really explain its advantages I would focus on them instead of just saying that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer which I don't think is a very good argument to convince anyone. And the same applies to 1BTC = 1BTC.

Anyways, people will keep repeating it at each and every dump as some sort of miraculous Vodoo. I know. I will just have to live with it as I have done all this years

I don't particularly care for the 1 BTC = 1 BTC argument and I wouldn't focus on, or even mention, it to sell anyone on the idea of BTC.

But here you keep ignoring the time variable when you try to assert 1 USD to be 1 USD.

This is only ever true in an isolated snapshot of an arbitrary "now". The functionality of 1 USD at any time t is different from the functionality of 1 USD at any time s that is sufficiently far from t. This does not happen with BTC.

I'm not sure in what other way to verbalize the fact that 1 USD is not always going to be 1 USD. It's not about the paper bill, or the number that shows up in a bank account. Those are entirely arbitrary and irrelevant when it comes to the functionality as money.

If you had a fiat currency without a central bank (or a functional equivalent) you'd have the 1 USD = 1 USD argument in the same way that you have 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

[BayAreaCoins]

I'm printing paper wallets on toilet paper now.

It's the virus times version of Casascius coins

But that only works if you have toilet paper on hand. If you're fresh out and you call around and find the nearest tissue paper is at a store hundreds or thousands of miles away, you can simply drive to a closer ATM and get several sheets to wipe. Here in the US, that may be 20 bucks per wipe, but you do what you got to do.

Guys look at the master races who dont use toilet paper at all but a so called bidet

How do you get your arse dry afterwards? Do they have an arse dryer like a hot air hand dryer?

The fan dry takes forever... it's best to just use a bit of toilet paper or a washcloth.  Dripping dry feels really gross and isn't really an option lol... just letting yall know!

I have several Brondell bidets.  Good investments even when there is plenty of TP available.

[lightfoot]

Bidets are cute but take up serious space. How do you fit them in the bathroom?

[JayJuanGee]

Good morning Bitcoinland. Happy Friday the 13th.

We may be a bit lower than at this point yesterday, but with a different perspective. Instead of being down a couple of grand, we're up a couple of grand from an all-year low... currently $5748USD/$7960CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

This smells like capitulation to me. We've had former hodlers break down and sell the dip (my heart weeps for you). We had massive volume. We've had a sizeable correction back up. We had gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands. Looks like up to me.

Go Bitcoin go.

- hodl is such fkcud up

only real scale & use can fix bitcoin

- finally:

hodl: no use case

I don't think you understand what we mean by hodling.

The word was first coined by Gamekyuubi in a drunken typo-filled rant during the bursting of the late 2013 bubble. He basically said that he wasn't panic selling and was going to hodl with the implication that the price would rise again.  

It has since become a symbol of long-term belief in the importance and durability of Bitcoin. It implies that one has invested in Bitcoin for the long term and that short-term price fluctuations are immaterial.

It contrasts against tarding, which is gambling on the price of Bitcoin for the purpose of achieving fiat currency profits by buying and selling bitcoins utilizing short-term price fluctuations.

Hodling doesn't mean you don't use bitcoins.

I consider myself a hodler because most of my coins are in cold storage that I've made inaccessible even to myself without a fair amount of travel and trouble (for security reasons).

I still buy coins when I can, most recently right here in the jungle from a friend who was cash strapped and needed air fare to fly to Canada to straighten out a financial matter. She sold me back some of the coin I paid her for my first property here.

I have used coins to pay for land, dental work, musical instruments, travel, and the general costs of living an enjoyable life.

I carry a paper wallet with me when I travel with enough coin to cover an emergency and several empty paper wallets so I can sweep and return what's left over several times if necessary.

Hodling doesn't mean not using Bitcoin. It simply means not tarding.

How does a bitcoin back up work with a paper wallet, in case you lose or destroy your paperwallet?

Not too many people using paper wallets these days, but likely can have a lot of practicality in the way that you are using them, jimbo.

[Biodom]

Bidets are cute but take up serious space. How do you fit them in the bathroom?

R you kidding?
It could be installed on the existing toilet.

Luxe bidet neo 120 on Amazon-$50
order before they ran out, lol

[nutildah]

...
It's just an equal sign with both *IDENTICAL* values at each side of the equal sign. That shouldn't be debatable.
...

I don't particularly care for the 1 BTC = 1 BTC argument and I wouldn't focus on, or even mention, it to sell anyone on the idea of BTC.

But here you keep ignoring the time variable when you try to assert 1 USD to be 1 USD.

This is only ever true in an isolated snapshot of an arbitrary "now". The functionality of 1 USD at any time t is different from the functionality of 1 USD at any time s that is sufficiently far from t. This does not happen with BTC.

I'm not sure in what other way to verbalize the fact that 1 USD is not always going to be 1 USD. It's not about the paper bill, or the number that shows up in a bank account. Those are entirely arbitrary and irrelevant when it comes to the functionality as money.

If you had a fiat currency without a central bank (or a functional equivalent) you'd have the 1 USD = 1 USD argument in the same way that you have 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Funny seeing you argue so hard against the idea of a reflexive property but not really surprising.

One thing is always equal to itself regardless of how its value changes.

If you want to say

X1 ≠ X2, with X1 being the value of something in 1984 and X2 being the value of something today

then sure, there's a case to be made for that.

However, a dollar bill printed in 1995 has absolutely the same value as a dollar bill printed today. You can hold them up side by side, and they will both buy you the same amount of coffee. You have to clarify what conditions you are comparing X1 to X2, otherwise you're just not making sense.

[Ibian]

This whole PlusToken affair stinks to high heaven for me. I'm thinking clandestine CCP operation or similar.

Who else can get away with a $3billion crypto-Ponzi scheme in the first place? Then suspiciously (stupidly) dump the 13,000 bitcoin on the market at the lows for the cycle? IFF the perpetrators are clever enough to remain hidden from authorities they wont be stupid enough to dump on Bitfinex liquidating to fiat in one go at market rates. They would have sold off over time into the highs. IFF they are clandestine CCP operatives protected from prosecution they can run a Ponzi scheme and dump for maximal disruption of bitcoin pricing.

Heh even then, it won't work. Hodlers hodl on, and the coming rise will be that much more impressive. I don't even know what a plustoken is.

[Ibian]

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Slightly off topic:

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
     230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Source:

*SPOILER ALERT*
https://twitter.com/3j0hn/status/913447235534315520

what the hell is that nonsense about

[bitebits]

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Bitcoin is not fungible. And that is a problem IMO. Already today you see that mixed coins are worth less (Coinbase freezing your account) and coins without a transaction history (straight from the miners) or auctioned by the US Marshals are sold for a premium.

So sorry to wake you up at this time of the day but 1 BTC really is not like the other 1 BTC.

[Icygreen]

@Geovanydesiju10
Quick Reminder" No one holding #bitcoin  lost anything Example: If you had 0.01BTC Before this Market sell off Guess what: You still have 0.01BTC in your wallet You only loose if you anxiously try to convert BTC to worthless FIAT
https://twitter.com/geovanydejesu10/status/1238564266879471618?s=21

But if I take my fiat and convert it to cash, I can use it as toilet paper. You can't do that with BTC.

I think that's called intrinsic value 

[Ibian]

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Bitcoin is not fungible. And that is a problem IMO. Already today you see that mixed coins are worth less (Coinbase freezing your account) and coins without a transaction history (straight from the miners) or auctioned by the US Marshals are sold for a premium.

So sorry to wake you up at this time of the day but 1 BTC really is not like the other 1 BTC.

https://nypost.com/2013/05/15/43-8-million-for-this/

Paint is not fungible. Some people are just really stupid.

[BayAreaCoins]

Bidets are cute but take up serious space. How do you fit them in the bathroom?

It takes up the same exact room as a normal toilet seat.  Plus it is slam proof, heated, and has a light in the pot.

The sprayer(s) go in and out of the lid.  The remote controls the spray temp, pressure, movement, seat temp, fan temp/speed, carbon filter fan in the shitter and a "cleaning" button for the sprayers.

https://www.brondell.com/swash-1400-bidet-toilet-seat/