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Question: What happens first:
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26396266 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
LFC_Bitcoin
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June 07, 2020, 01:08:11 PM
Merited by BobLawblaw (5)

Blew my merit load on a few peeps near this post. Bailing on this place for a while. Please redistribute merit where appropriate.

Stay strong, gentlemen.

HODL.

Peace out.

Shot a load on you #nohomo

Do it yourself, you lazy son of a gun!
Indymoney
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June 07, 2020, 01:13:47 PM

Blew my merit load on a few peeps near this post. Bailing on this place for a while. Please redistribute merit where appropriate.

Stay strong, gentlemen.

HODL.

Peace out.

Shot a load on you #nohomo

Do it yourself, you lazy son of a gun!
Sometime this Lazy son of a gun works for good Cheesy
ivomm
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June 07, 2020, 01:14:51 PM
Merited by nutildah (1)

Are we still playing this old game - Sunday dump? I thought we switched to the new version - Sunday pump.

nutildah
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June 07, 2020, 01:51:55 PM

So, that was fun for a little bit.
Stares angrily at... people.
well, fun is where you find it.
but some peeps definition of fun differ from mine apparently.
edit: not directed at you or your comment, just my general observation.

Blew my merit load on a few peeps near this post. Bailing on this place for a while. Please redistribute merit where appropriate.

Stay strong, gentlemen.

HODL.

Peace out.

Hey Bob you can't just leave like that! Well you can, but we will miss you. Smooches.

xoxo


Bob after stepping away from the forum and its bullshit for a few days:

ivomm
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June 07, 2020, 02:34:52 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

I don't know whether this was posted here before, but it is useful to see these estimations anyway:
https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoin-users/

~100 million
Number of Bitcoin Owners

~400,000
Number of Daily Bitcoin Users

~200 million
How Many Bitcoin Wallets Are There?

~53 million
Number of Bitcoin Traders

"Blockchain.com reported 31,914,414 users on January 1, 2019 and around 45 million on January 1, 2020. This is a 41% increase for the year. Interestingly, the total number of UTXO's (unspent Bitcoins) grew from 49 million on January 1, 2019 to 65 million a year later. This is an increase of 33%."
LoyceMobile
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June 07, 2020, 02:40:31 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

~100 million
Number of Bitcoin Owners
There are only 30 million (source: https://gz.blockchair.com/bitcoin/addresses/ ) Bitcoin addresses with a balance, so this can't be true.
And I assume most Bitcoin users have more than 1 funded address.
ivomm
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June 07, 2020, 02:50:27 PM

~100 million
Number of Bitcoin Owners
There are only 30 million (source: https://gz.blockchair.com/bitcoin/addresses/ ) Bitcoin addresses with a balance, so this can't be true.
And I assume most Bitcoin users have more than 1 funded address.
I don't know how glassnode counts only 30 million addresses, since only Coinbase has over 30 million customers (and blockchain over 40 million). I think glassnode counts wallets not addresses and thus each exchange with millions of users (which may not have other wallets) is counted as 1 wallet.
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June 07, 2020, 02:57:01 PM

So, that was fun for a little bit.
Stares angrily at... people.
well, fun is where you find it.
but some peeps definition of fun differ from mine apparently.
edit: not directed at you or your comment, just my general observation.

Blew my merit load on a few peeps near this post. Bailing on this place for a while. Please redistribute merit where appropriate.

Stay strong, gentlemen.

HODL.

Peace out.

Don't stay away too long, we all love you in here.
Arriemoller
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June 07, 2020, 03:01:54 PM

I'm taking of my mask, don't really need it anymore.
#bobcomeback
JayJuanGee
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June 07, 2020, 03:22:23 PM


yeah thats my attitude too. we may be walking (or sleeping) on a narrow ledge with potentially killer drops on all sides but its where and how you land that counts. so may as well enjoy the view.

From the perspective of an outsider, it also looks more dangerous than it is, because kitty is trained with kitty intuition in these kinds of matters, unless kitty is merely relying upon having 9 lives to make it through a startled wake-up, if one were to happen.
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June 07, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
Last edit: June 07, 2020, 05:04:37 PM by JayJuanGee
Merited by LoyceV (2), El duderino_ (2)

~100 million
Number of Bitcoin Owners
There are only 30 million (source: https://gz.blockchair.com/bitcoin/addresses/ ) Bitcoin addresses with a balance, so this can't be true.
And I assume most Bitcoin users have more than 1 funded address.
I don't know how glassnode counts only 30 million addresses, since only Coinbase has over 30 million customers (and blockchain over 40 million). I think glassnode counts wallets not addresses and thus each exchange with millions of users (which may not have other wallets) is counted as 1 wallet.

I don't even consider myself to be engaging a large amount of bitcoin transactional activities, but of course, over my 6.5 years in bitcoin, little by little and some heavier periods of transactional activities, I have found reasons to move bitcoins from time to time and even create various kinds of bitcoin accounts (in which custody has been with third parties).

While attempting to NOT break OPsec too much, I will say that I have had possession of around 15 accounts with various third-party custodians that have held varying amounts of bitcoin balances, and currently, I continue to have maybe only half or so of those third-party custodian accounts in which I still have access with some kind of non-zero balance in bitcoin.  The accounts have had varying practices in terms of the creation of bitcoin addresses in terms of how they send and receive bitcoin and how they hold bitcoins within the services (sometimes they will show the purported addresses where your bitcoins are held and sometimes they will not).  

I have also had experimented with nearly 10 different wallets, and again, maybe half of those wallets currently (as I type) have BTC balances and half do not, but each of the wallets also has a decent number of bitcoin addresses contained within.. and sometimes difficult to figure out which addresses are connected to what wallet, and sure my skills would not be as good as some chain analysis companies, but also frequently the chain analysis companies are likely touting out way more abilities than they have in order to create impressions that they know more than they do.  

There had been times where I transacted bitcoin on an address that already has a balance (so more BTC is added to such an address), and then other times that I created a new address to receive bitcoin, and surely, if you make a bitcoin transaction but you do not transact the full BTC balance to the receiver address, then two new addresses would be created from that kind of not sending the full amount transaction (the recipient address and the change address).  

Maybe sometimes through chain analysis bitcoin addresses might be inferably connected to one wallet, but sometimes it might not be clear if addresses are in the same wallet or not, unless they are joined when sending.  Some wallets also enable the ability to custom join transaction addresses or keeping addresses separate in order NOT to join them when transacting from addresses that are within the same wallet (I think Samouri is pretty powerful in the ability to custom send from select addresses - but then having the ability to do something powerful and knowing how to use accomplish that thing are likely two different matters).

So, perhaps over the years, I can roughly estimate that I have had BTC balances in something around 300 bitcoin addresses (partly depending, also upon the extent to which exchanges sometimes will create new recipient addresses too in order to send and receive bitcoin with exchanges and to verify those transactions on the blockchain).  Maybe currently, I have non-zero BTC balances on somewhere between 1/5th to 1/10th of the BTC addresses that I have ever owned, yet for OPsec reasons, we might not want to get into too many specifics, either.

There has always been some kind of lack of precision trying to figure out the number of bitcoin users from bitcoin addresses specifically or even to rely upon the purported accuracy of the reporting (disclosures) of various third-party wallet providers, exchanges, financial services or custodians.  

Some BTC entities and BTC financial products like those offered through GBTC, CME or BAKKT likely have their own ways of managing their BTC addresses and even obfuscating their custody and verifiability of how many BTC they have or how many end users or institutions are using their product.  I doubt that governments holding BTC are going to act much better in terms of how much they might disclose about BTC that they hold, how they obtained them and/or their intentions in terms of whether they plan to keep (HODL) them or to somehow dispose of them.

Remember also the situation in which faketoshi, craig wright, was claiming ownership to something like 20,000 coinbase (not the exchange) addresses that would constitute about 1 million or so bitcoin, there was a movement of 1 of those coinbase addresses that seemed to show that faketoshi did not have access to that address that he claimed to own (and that transaction initially divided into 40btc versus 10 btc, and then the 10btc got further divided into more than 20 addresses), and then another 145 of those coinbase addresses with 50 BTC each (which would be 7,250BTC in total) were linked together and appeared to be owned and controlled by one person/entity who was proclaimed to be neither craig wright nor satoshi. Lot of interesting puzzles in these attempts to figure out number of bitcoin users based on bitcoin addresses.

Even though the wallet information, address information and third-party custodian disclosers can lead to varying estimates of the number of bitcoin users can be quite difficult to decipher, surely none of us would be opposed to some of the hard working attempts to make reasonable assessments of the number of BTC users - even though some of us might be offended by sloppy and simplified assessment of number of users work that seems to take place on a regular basis, too.
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June 07, 2020, 04:54:52 PM

$ in your bank account are not truly fungible by this description too.

Not just fiat in the bank but also cash is not perfectly fungible. Cash have serial numbers. So if you write serial numbers down you can know you had exactly that bill in the past.

It does not mean that money have to be fungible or is not money anymore. It means that good money have to be fungible.
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June 07, 2020, 04:57:36 PM

and just like that, the world again becomes a slightly bleaker place
JayJuanGee
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June 07, 2020, 05:11:54 PM

$ in your bank account are not truly fungible by this description too.

Not just fiat in the bank but also cash is not perfectly fungible. Cash have serial numbers. So if you write serial numbers down you can know you had exactly that bill in the past.

It does not mean that money have to be fungible or is not money anymore. It means that good money have to be fungible.

There are court cases that disallow the blacklisting of currency (at least in the USA.. and likely in other countries, too), even though there still might be times in which the tracing of fiat bills can be used to track crimes.

Governments are not likely to be as friendly towards permitting or enforcing bitcoin fungibility, so in that regard, there have been ongoing efforts to try to ensure bitcoin fungibility in spite of anticipated governmental and even status quo financial institutional hostility to bitcoin (and its fungibility).
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June 07, 2020, 05:16:30 PM
Merited by infofront (1), Icygreen (1)

OT - Police story time:

"There's a case from Georgia from a few years ago - and down in the same area where Arbaury (sp) was "hunted like an animal" - of a white man killed in a mistaken no-knock raid, just like Breonna Taylor in Louisville.  Cops kicked in his door in the middle of the night and the man had the nerve to dare to defend his home, got shot multiple times.  And nobody in the media here or nationally gave a damn about it.  The man's name was David Hooks in Dublin, GA, if you want to look it up. A meth addict had stolen a car from Hook's home and got caught in it by police in possession of drugs. The addict claimed the drugs were in the car when he stole it, and that was the reasoning the police took to raid Hooks' home. After they raided the house and killed him, they found exactly ZERO drugs anywhere on the property."

And this event never made it to the front page of *any* MSM website at the time. Why?  Huh
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June 07, 2020, 05:30:14 PM

Huh? This is not a new idea. We have talked about the idea of tainted coins for years.


Does anyone still have that link to buy virgin coins?
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June 07, 2020, 05:47:32 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2020, 05:40:53 PM by fillippone

Fuck! Very nice read by Fucking genius Jameson Lopp:
Quote
Threats to your keys that every bitcoin user should know about.

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1269676335519223809?s=21

The Dos and Don'ts of Bitcoin Key Management

Quote
Bitcoin provides users with an incredibly high level of sovereignty over their money. You may have heard the phrase "be your own bank" which does a good job describing the power that Bitcoin enables its users to wield. The flip side is that being your own bank comes with a lot of responsibility. The same features that make Bitcoin so valuable (permissionlessness, censorship resistance, seizure resistance, etc.), also make it attractive to malicious actors. These malicious actors have come up with a wide variety of traps to fool bitcoin users into parting with their money, making bitcoin more challenging to use safely. The internet is a dangerous place, but we have the tools to protect ourselves!


Fuck! Very nice read, I am fuckin’going to add it to my fucker’s beginner fucking thread: 5 fucking good Resources to teach the fucking Average Joe about Bitcoin
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June 07, 2020, 07:43:59 PM

OT - Police story time:

"There's a case from Georgia from a few years ago - and down in the same area where Arbaury (sp) was "hunted like an animal" - of a white man killed in a mistaken no-knock raid, just like Breonna Taylor in Louisville.  Cops kicked in his door in the middle of the night and the man had the nerve to dare to defend his home, got shot multiple times.  And nobody in the media here or nationally gave a damn about it.  The man's name was David Hooks in Dublin, GA, if you want to look it up. A meth addict had stolen a car from Hook's home and got caught in it by police in possession of drugs. The addict claimed the drugs were in the car when he stole it, and that was the reasoning the police took to raid Hooks' home. After they raided the house and killed him, they found exactly ZERO drugs anywhere on the property."

And this event never made it to the front page of *any* MSM website at the time. Why?  Huh

Blacks killing blacks or whites killing whites, never really makes the news. It doesn't fit the agenda of racial inequality.

As long as they can keep us fighting each other, they can prevent us from organizing against them.

It's a tactic the "gods" taught us (see tower of babel).
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June 07, 2020, 07:44:36 PM
Merited by Toxic2040 (1)

up
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