Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Oh, we are back to discussing my person... looks like someone really needs that lesson.

Well, you put yourself out there.

You post in the busiest thread in the forum (and this thread only), are quite opinionated to the contrary, and don't own any coins. People questioning your motives is going to be normal. And since we seem to be guinea pigs within some data collection experiment of yours, yeah, your not going to make many friends.

We need some people that don't believe in Bitcoin and that are very sceptic, when they argument well it can be interesting and it is healthy; when they don't they are just trolls

Actually, you have a very good point.... b/c it is a lot easier to learn from someone who backs up his/her claims (even if we may NOT agree with those claims) rather than someone who is just spewing conclusions without any justification for how come s/he arrived at such conclusion(s).

[JorgeStolfi]

I have learned many interesting stories about electronic voting but they are too long and too off-topic to tell here...

It's OK. As they say, dinosaurs die and the world keeps turning. Voting will continue to trend to electronic. It's fun to hear you bray at it.

I heard that Mark Karpeles may step down from his post as chief computer security specialist of the global bitcoin economy.  Perhaps he can be recruited to take care of internet voting, once the dinosaurs get extinguished. 

[Richy_T]

I have learned many interesting stories about electronic voting but they are too long and too off-topic to tell here...

It's OK. As they say, dinosaurs die and the world keeps turning. Voting will continue to trend to electronic. It's fun to hear you bray at it.

Actually, Jorge is pretty on the ball here (not surprised at that, it's his field). Of course, you can still stuff the paper ballots but it's a lot harder.

[JorgeStolfi]

Speaking of Karpeles, it occurred to me that MtGOX not only was the largest exchange outside China, but may also have been the largest bitcoin-related enterprise ever (with more than 500 M$ in nominal assets, not considering the theft).  Is that correct?

[Peter R]

Speaking of Karpeles, it occurred to me that MtGOX not only was the largest exchange outside China, but may also have been the largest bitcoin-related enterprise ever (with more than 500 M$ in nominal assets, not considering the theft).  Is that correct?

Probably.  

Interesting comparison (numbers are approximate):

MTGox at bankruptcy

Liabilities=~$500 M
Assets    =~$150 M  (after 200 kBTC were found)
===============================
Shortfall =  $350 M

Bitcoin money supply: 12,000,000 x $560 = $6,700 M

Shortfall / Money Supply = 350 / 6700 = 5.2%


Lehman Brother's at bankruptcy

Liabilities = $768 B
Assets    =  $639 B
===============================
Shortfall =  $129 B

USD M2 money supply: $11,000 B

Shortfall / Money Supply = 129 / 11000 = 1.2%


I wonder if the USD financial system would be more or less robust to a failure of equivalent size to MTGox.

[Walsoraj]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/447836584554266624

^ If this was bullish news the price would've gone up before the news became public.

[chessnut]

for the last 15 Hours on huobi a bot has been controlling the spread from 3479 downwrds. very creepy. I couldnt guess what it's doing.

[JorgeStolfi]

Of course, you can still stuff the paper ballots but it's a lot harder.

Hybrid paper/digital seems safer than both; successful fraud requires attacking both sides at very different times and with very different methods.

Preventing ballot stuffing in paper-only systems is not trivial but is doable.  Some simple material things help, like translucent ballot boxes and ballots countersigned on the spot by the Table officer; but the most important thing is to keep the ballot box under many critical eyes, all the time, until the box is opened and votes are counted.

The main advantage of paper-only systems is that everyone can understand the risks and apply the necessary security precautions; people know what to watch for, just by common sense.  For digital and hybrid systems, only few people among the public understand the risks, and even fewer (or none) can do anything about them on election day.

The puzzling thing is why people are so obsessed at "improving" an activity that occurs only once every few months at most, and need not take more than half an hour -- much less than eating an hamburger, or the average urban commuting trip.  Brazil's 400,000 electronic voting machines collect at most 400 votes each during 8 hours every 2 years, and typically need to be replaced after 10 years -- that is, each machine gets discarded after 40 hours of use and collecting less than 2000 votes.  The machine itself costs only ~300$, but  storing, transporting, checking and loading the software into it, at every election, costs a lot more.  It must be a record for inefficiency...

BTW, I have a couple of stories about internet voting fiascos in Brazil, too. 

[JorgeStolfi]

for the last 15 Hours on huobi a bot has been controlling the spread from 3479 downwrds. very creepy. I couldnt guess what it's doing.

I don't thing they are "controlling the spread", it seems that they have plain stupid bug in their chart data server.

A large number of the "ask" orders (from the current price ~3466 ¥ up to ~3478 ¥) are moved to the "bid" side.  Then, a few seconds later, those same orders are moved back to the "ask" side.  The current price  is not affected; all trades occur near ~3466 ¥, none occurs near ~3478 ¥. This has occurred continuously since Huobi came back online after the DDOS attacks today.  I have pointed this out to the bitcoinwisdom owner, he says it is their bug, not his.

[KeyserSoze]

Actually, Jorge is pretty on the ball here (not surprised at that, it's his field). Of course, you can still stuff the paper ballots but it's a lot harder.

He's obviously knowledgeable about voting systems.

[aminorex]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/447836584554266624

^ If this was bullish news the price would've gone up before the news became public.

Tweets are not news.  They are rumors.

[KeyserSoze]

BTW, I have a couple of stories about internet voting fiascos in Brazil, too. 

This is why Brazil should only be involved only when the world needs a good football match, maybe. Leave the important stuff, like crashing the world's economy, to America.

[spooderman]

In less than a year I have spent more than two weeks browsing this forum.

Wow.

[Ivanhoe]

BTW, I have a couple of stories about internet voting fiascos in Brazil, too. 

This is why Brazil should only be involved only when the world needs a good football match, maybe. Leave the important stuff, like crashing the world's economy, to America.

Don't forget the miss Reef contest, Brasil should participate in that ass  ( ) well.

[White Lion]

Interesting article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-23/russia-returns-favor-sees-chinese-yuan-world-reserve-currency

[KeyserSoze]

Just got some inside info price is heading up sharply in the next 48 hours.
Source: my dreams.

[KeyserSoze]

Dollar going bye bye in the next 5 years

Speaking of dreams...

[roslinpl]

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/447836584554266624

^ If this was bullish news the price would've gone up before the news became public.

Tweets are not news.  They are rumors.

Agree ... and we should not just follow every rumor that we hear ... or read..  

As for now... price is upredictable as it was before

[KFR]

As for now... price is upredictable as it was before

I predict a riot.   

[boumalo]

BRIC nations gonna move to the Yuan as world reserve currency

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-23/russia-returns-favor-sees-chinese-yuan-world-reserve-currency

Dollar going bye bye in the next 5 years

China,  the brics nd the oil producers are supporting the USD less and less and the FED is growing the money supply so the USD will collapse, probably brutally

Right now the talks about a recovery are luring the investors but they will finally stop finding excuses to the bad data that keeps coming and they will capitulate nd understand the crisis never stoped, the FED just delayed the necessary turmoil, it will be more difficult bc it has been delayed