MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[mdekerever]

My guess: MtGox will be bought by another exchange and our BTC will be transferred to this new company.
Those who kept their BTC will get their money back (as the could sell back their BTC at "normal" price).
MtGox executives will loose money, depending on the value MtGox will be bought.

That would be a fair solution.

"according to Marco Santori, Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation’s Regulatory Affairs Committee, “there’s a lot of people that think that they are getting a deal.”

Opinions ?

My opinion would be that this would a normal "all is well" bailout and a windfall for Goxxers who bought cheap coin.

I have no problem with BTC going back to 1000 dollar levels and Goxxers making that chop back, they have earned it FFS.  BUT, rewarding incompetence is like sprinkling incompetence-seed all over the world.

If there is a deal, MtGox executives won't make money, actually, they should be the loosers of the deal.
Somit should not reward incompetence.
But that is the fair scenario. Business is not often fair...

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[itsunderstood]

If you deposited metal coin with someone and they clipped them and wouldn't even give you examples of the clipped coins but you managed to get one and it revealed that yes, the bullion content of your coin is actively being shat upon, well, that is a broken-bench.  Ruptured bench.  Debasing your customers coins is the same thing as stealing their gold.  The coin is worth less, because the "trueness" of it is purposefully and RICO style debauched in criminal fashion.

Sure, crypto is not gold, but, the COTUS for example specifies specie (metal bullion coin) as true money, and in terms of debt law, if you debaucvh coins as a banker, you'll either rule the world or get bought up or eliminated by whomever had entrusted their coins to you.  Debasing coins is historically the way the worlds markets move: FACT.

seriously! I LOLLED. i know it's wrong and i am ashamed that I did, but if this IS Mark K's ideology... I gotta say, he's STUPID AS F*CK.
still LOLLING.

dead man walking.

disclaimer: it's just a turn of phrase, but as a neutral observer, i'd say the man's days in business are numbered.

Heh, thanks.

FWIW I love Japanese people and if this dude fucks them over, I will hate him on that reason alone.  We owe them better, they are a cool country, and early adopters of the coin.  Also, I believe in Magix and manna as well.

HOWEVER, a halt is still the best thing, and the window is closing, because, one must ask this question:  In what way, is a blockchain, like a float-of-coins in real life of history?  EXAMPLE:

In 15xx, there was 10 tons of coined-metal "x"
Then, some percentage was shat upon, clipped by the Lords, Barons, Kings, etc
Then, the little plebes got shitcoins in their hands before they could react
Then, a new "true" coin would be given for the shitcoin
Then rinse
Then repeat
Then invent some new thing
Then see if it can be shat upon
Then...

[zyk]

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes !

Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter

what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story

together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Is not people still reporting EUR withdraws being processed? From what I've seen, EUR withdraws still occur. Also, people who believe gox is insolvent would rather hold USD maybe because they believe it will be easier to get the USD back legally.

Nobody in their right mind would sell at Gox at  these prices not you, not me not panicked japanese nobody who erroneously thinks btcs as an asset is not claimable.....really noone...besides??

[Luno]

What's the fastest way to deposit fiat on Gox now?

How fast is OK-Pay?


(Yes, I'm aware of the risks.)

The only reason people are buying coins on Gox is because they hope this will stop, and Gox will return to it's former high service level. Secondly they have nothing to loose, they are not in on some great deal. If I had my money elsewhere, I surely would not deposit any there now.

See it like this: If things go back to normal this instant and withdrawals from Gox commence now. What would happen to the price on other exchanges?? You see? Price would level off around what 200$? and great swings would follow. Maybe the downturn on Gox would spread to the whole economy (I think it will anyway).

You would end up loosing money too. You presume that you can get your money out and the price is favourable on other exchanges when you want to sell.  LOL

I've been trying to withdraw since May 5 2013 and gotten compliments from Gox support for my  patience (That's true).

But you're using USD and you live in the US, right?
I'm gonna try Euro. I live in Europe.

It's a long term investment anyway. I don't need to sell the coins this year.

No, I traded USD against, the reason being that I didn't have much confidence in EUR at the time and USD had and has greater volume. So my sepa was USD to EUR on GOX then from EUR to DKK in my own bank!! I know twice the fees, but still better than trading my own currency or EUR directly.

It didn't trigger any KYC/AML red lights? Could that have been the problem too?
They didn't inform me on any problems related to that arrangement.

[itsunderstood]

If there is a deal, MtGox executives won't make money, actually, they should be the loosers of the deal.
Somit should not reward incompetence.
But that is the fair scenario. Business is not often fair...

Incompetence is what?

Because, in the corporate model, theft is rewarded and has been so since corporation model invented by Dutch East India slavers.  But, Information Tech (computer dudes) is a newer thing altogether.

So, I would say incompetent IT workers, could be seen as the same as low-paid or disinterested or temporarily employed IT workers.  That's why Gox had bad implementation of IT sec rules, and as I explained, its due to dumbshits at the top, seeing IT as a disposable, fractionably renderable, indeed destroyable, industry.  They see IT as a puzzle piece that is so damn uncooperative.  Haha, they have no idea how uncooperative IT worker union of global proportions could be.  What if they went on strike?  What the fuck would happen to all the money?  ANSWER: It all would be totally gone, if the IT workers on which this world is based, are rendered down and destroyed.  Edward Snowden is all temps.

[itsunderstood]

Anyway, if you look at the volumes since this bloodbath began (last night US time) then you know they can utterly crush this thing down to < 10 USD in literally seconds.

Goxers just hold and get a lawyer like dude above says.  Lawyers are a garbage profession but you might get a higher value on your coin in the courts of wherever, Poland or whatnots.  Let's hope Poland exists as well.

Oh, when the potato market was cornered and crashed in the 1970s, how long did the cort process take?  Oh?  Years you say?  Oh.  And how much did the plaintiffs get back?

[zyk]

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes !

Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter

what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story

together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

That is actually a good question.   goxbtc and goxusd should both be worth equally less since both are equally at risk.

However,  goxbtc unlike goxusd clearly is much lower.  Therefore, I would conclude that goxbtc is NOT real BTC.  While goxusd is real USD, but not withdrawable.

If nobody believes it now ....hindsight will tell you that those dollars are real and have been withdrawn as were all

the real BTC.

[donk4u]

If you deposited metal coin with someone and they clipped them and wouldn't even give you examples of the clipped coins but you managed to get one and it revealed that yes, the bullion content of your coin is actively being shat upon, well, that is a broken-bench.  Ruptured bench.  Debasing your customers coins is the same thing as stealing their gold.  The coin is worth less, because the "trueness" of it is purposefully and RICO style debauched in criminal fashion.

Sure, crypto is not gold, but, the COTUS for example specifies specie (metal bullion coin) as true money, and in terms of debt law, if you debaucvh coins as a banker, you'll either rule the world or get bought up or eliminated by whomever had entrusted their coins to you.  Debasing coins is historically the way the worlds markets move: FACT.

why does a dog lick his balls? mark karpeles do what he do?

[itsunderstood]

If nobody believes it now ....hindsight will tell you that those dollars are real and have been withdrawn as were all

the real BTC.

The suggestion being that they are suckering people in, and those people will be robbed.  That suggestion would be easily now valid for discussion.

edit

Further, if Gox were to become a "captured" piece like that one Lolzsec dude who turned tail, then see, it becomes a tool for coinhaters, to make BTC look unstable.  Well, it isn't unstable, it's working.

I am suggesting, you know...  "it's working".  ?  

further edit

What I mean by "it's working" is this:  Let's assume there is a secret betting room where they take odds on the survival or death of some bank.  It's called the "I think bank X will die, v. I think bank Y will die" room.  Okay?

Well, in these terms, right now, Gox is being floated into some crosshairs, and some push is going to happen.  Their cap is large, and we have not yet gotten into the "Japan Wartime Economy" moment yet, though its in the script I assume.

Well, in 2008, if you had bet on bank X, then you lost.  I am saying when sharks frenzy on one shark, and it takes weeks, it's like moving artillery into position.  For my part, I am on the side of the Goxxies, I want their coin to be good, I want their value logically and truthfully restored.  I also want a pony.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Why is MtGox even trading if you can't deposit or withdraw fiat or BTC?

Shouldn't all trading be halted at MtGox until everything gets normal?

The fact that they are allowing BTC to be traded at 20% of the market value tells you that they are gaming the situation!

[cAPSLOCK]

Well, in 2008, if you had bet on bank X, then you lost. I am saying when sharks frenzy on one shark, and it takes weeks, it's like moving artillery into position. For my part, I am on the side of the Goxxies, I want their coin to be good, I want their value logically and truthfully restored. I also want a pony.

Oh. Well good.  Because you can at least get a pony.

[FrictionlessCoin]

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes !

Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter

what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story

together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

That is actually a good question.   goxbtc and goxusd should both be worth equally less since both are equally at risk.

However,  goxbtc unlike goxusd clearly is much lower.  Therefore, I would conclude that goxbtc is NOT real BTC.  While goxusd is real USD, but not withdrawable.

If nobody believes it now ....hindsight will tell you that those dollars are real and have been withdrawn as were all

the real BTC.

If you can't withdraw BTC ('coz likely it isn't real), then why are they allowing the trading to continue?

It is obvious that they are gaming the system so people will sell their real BTC.

This is very sick.

[solex]

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Because, in the case of bankruptcy and court proceedings, claims in fiat are more likely to be disbursed to the creditors.  BTC claims add a layer of complexity and may not even be recognized during liquidation. The Japanese legal system is opaque at the best of times.

[zyk]

Why is MtGox even trading if you can't deposit or withdraw fiat or BTC?

Shouldn't all trading be halted at MtGox until everything gets normal?

The fact that they are allowing BTC to be traded at 20% of the market value tells you that they are gaming the situation!

The ponzi needs to be played to its fullest and in bitcoin - Japan you are obviously entitelt to do so, all else you don´t

have enough money for laywers and cronies.

[zyk]

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Because, in the case of bankruptcy and court proceedings, claims in fiat are more likely to be disbursed to the creditors.  BTC claims add a layer of complexity and may not even be recognized during liquidation.

Read their ToS....your oppinion is wrong...asset is asset  !

[raskul]

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Because, in the case of bankruptcy and court proceedings, claims in fiat are more likely to be disbursed to the creditors.  BTC claims add a layer of complexity and may not even be recognized during liquidation. The Japanese legal system is opaque at the best of times.

^^This.

if you put your claim on fiat, you will at least have a chance that your lawyer will quote highest market price in relation to the BTC held.
at the end of the day, it's still convertible.

[virtualfaqs]

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes !

Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter

what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story

together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Is not people still reporting EUR withdraws being processed? From what I've seen, EUR withdraws still occur. Also, people who believe gox is insolvent would rather hold USD maybe because they believe it will be easier to get the USD back legally.

Nobody in their right mind would sell at Gox at  these prices not you, not me not panicked japanese nobody who erroneously thinks btcs as an asset is not claimable.....really noone...besides??

I'm glad I'm out of Mtgox now because I probably would have been one of those people on Mtgox sitting there with all my Mtgox BTC wondering why as the price dropped from $900 to $100 today.

[FrictionlessCoin]

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Because, in the case of bankruptcy and court proceedings, claims in fiat are more likely to be disbursed to the creditors.  BTC claims add a layer of complexity and may not even be recognized during liquidation. The Japanese legal system is opaque at the best of times.

People who deposited fiat or BTC are not creditors.  

If fiat or BTC are missing in the accounts of the custodian,  then this is fraud.  This is very different from a company that declares bankruptcy because of lack of cash.  

It does not matter if the money is fiat or BTC.

It is highly likely in the next few days, people at Mt.Gox are going to be arrested.  

[FrictionlessCoin]

This does not answer the question - why is goxbtc price so cheap compared to goxusd. They are both gox, and have been non-withdrawable for about 4 weeks.

Because, in the case of bankruptcy and court proceedings, claims in fiat are more likely to be disbursed to the creditors.  BTC claims add a layer of complexity and may not even be recognized during liquidation. The Japanese legal system is opaque at the best of times.

^^This.

if you put your claim on fiat, you will at least have a chance that your lawyer will quote highest market price in relation to the BTC held.
at the end of the day, it's still convertible.

Actually the only reasonable explanation of the price of BTC at mtgox is that what is being sold is not real BTC.   

If it were,  then the price would remain the market price.  The value however of goxusd or goxbtc would be significantly less.  However that can't be measured unless there was a way to withdraw or deposit.

[Slipknot79]

Does okpay work with gox?