⚡⛏️[ANN] Giga Watt: Best Home for your Mining. Starts today!

[killerjoegreece]

The Greek translation is updated here


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1954941.msg19762730#msg19762730

[1714161835]

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[1714161835]

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[1714161835]

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[chip1982]

I have some doubts. Will this Token be sold in markets such as poloniex, Bifinex, etc? Each Token has its value attached to 1 Watt of power, is that it? If this is the more expensive to get the more expensive the farm energy, so we should not expect the value of the token to go to the moon, right?

I had the same thought.  Disclaimer: I am new to all of this.
By being attached to the 50 year 1 watt of power, it might put a fairly hard ceiling on the value of the token.
If people can become convinced that the value of the token is based on the value of 50 years of 1 watt rental at Gigawatt, and the rental fee has a fixed amount (as it appears to have), then you can literally calculate the exact value of the coin (obviously this assumes nothing changes over the next 50 years, which is ridiculous.  But you get my point.)

According to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You can rent the tokens out for a max of $0.56502 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $28.25 per token.

Of course this assumes the tokens are being rented out.  But a similar formula could be used, based on the savings in rental fees, if the tokens were being used to cover miner rental feesL
Again, according to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You will save $0.5913 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $29.565 per token.

So, based on this simple concept, we would assume that the value of one token should be at the very most $29.565, which is awesome for investors if it actually went this high.

Of course people will guess about what the value of mining/electricity will be over the next 50 years and apply that to the possible future value the token brings.  That's where things get interesting, I suppose.

Again I am totally new at this and I realize this is simple logic that only works in a vacuum.  But I thought it might be worthwhile to consider.

If you look into the future, that would be correct calculations - but the value might vary due to changes in demand. Also you may sell your WTT on public exchanges once it gets listed there.

Right. I was referring to the public exchanges when contemplating its potential value ceiling. In other words, the speculative value of this token might have a limit to it due to being tied to an actual asset with measurable value. So, my proposition is that the backing of the token by the rental/infrastructure both gives it real value (as opposed to purely speculative value) as well as real limits (as opposed to a lot of these coins/tokens that are backed by nothing but are able to grow endlessly).

Of course, as I mentioned, I concede completely that this value varies based on current demand and predicted future demand.
I bought wtt so I obviously don't doubt its potential. But I wonder if it has a self-imposed value limit that other tokens don't necessarily have?

I am curious to hear from smarter people than myself, because I am basically pulling this out of my butt. I hear people talking about market cap and supply and blah blah, and most of that means nothing to me, so maybe I am oversimplifying in my thought process out of ignorance. Maybe speculation ignores silly things like real value. I genuinely do not know.

Price to the downside should be the net present value of the cost reduction of rental fees under the assumption that mining is profitabel at all times. Cost reduction for the starter tariff is 9,75 – 3,3 c/kWh = 6,45 c/kWh multiplied with 24/1000*100 = 0,001548 $/day multiplied with 365 = 0,57 $/year (which is not 100% in line with calculator: 0,59 $/year). For further simplification we assume that this cost reduction is perpetual since 50 years in the crypto space is sort of everlasting. I then take an insane high discount rate of 50% (I really don‘t know better) which leaves me with a NPV for the token = 0,57/0,5 = 1,14 $. All factors and assumptions arguable.


Price to the upside: let‘s assume all tokens are sold and all token holders are mining and I have a left over miner at Giga Watt. How much would I be willing to pay to a token holder? I then would be willing to pay the net present value of the complete cost reduction when mining at Giga Watt in comparison to mining at home. At home with noise and neighbours ignored I then would pay 27 c/kWh which is the residential price for electricity at my home town (in Germany) with a rental fee of zero and maintenance fee also at zero. The cost reduction would be 27 c/kWh (at home) – 3,3 c/kWh (at GW for WTT holders) = 23,7 c/kWh when mining at GW. 23,7 c/kWh *24/1000*100 = 0,005688 $/day * 365 = 2,08 $/year. I again take the same high discount rate of 50% which leaves me with a NPV of the cost reduction when mining at GW instead if mining at home = 2,08 /0,5 = 4,16 $ which I am willing to pay for a token. If the price is higher I mine at home, if it is lower I buy the token and mine at GW. All factors and assumptions again arguable. Especially the assumtion that at 27 c/kWh mining at home is profitabel. Since I have no numbers I really don‘t know. Maybe I just would be better off selling the miner.

[Mrbates]

I have some doubts. Will this Token be sold in markets such as poloniex, Bifinex, etc? Each Token has its value attached to 1 Watt of power, is that it? If this is the more expensive to get the more expensive the farm energy, so we should not expect the value of the token to go to the moon, right?

I had the same thought.  Disclaimer: I am new to all of this.
By being attached to the 50 year 1 watt of power, it might put a fairly hard ceiling on the value of the token.
If people can become convinced that the value of the token is based on the value of 50 years of 1 watt rental at Gigawatt, and the rental fee has a fixed amount (as it appears to have), then you can literally calculate the exact value of the coin (obviously this assumes nothing changes over the next 50 years, which is ridiculous.  But you get my point.)

According to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You can rent the tokens out for a max of $0.56502 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $28.25 per token.

Of course this assumes the tokens are being rented out.  But a similar formula could be used, based on the savings in rental fees, if the tokens were being used to cover miner rental feesL
Again, according to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You will save $0.5913 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $29.565 per token.

So, based on this simple concept, we would assume that the value of one token should be at the very most $29.565, which is awesome for investors if it actually went this high.

Of course people will guess about what the value of mining/electricity will be over the next 50 years and apply that to the possible future value the token brings.  That's where things get interesting, I suppose.

Again I am totally new at this and I realize this is simple logic that only works in a vacuum.  But I thought it might be worthwhile to consider.

If you look into the future, that would be correct calculations - but the value might vary due to changes in demand. Also you may sell your WTT on public exchanges once it gets listed there.

Right. I was referring to the public exchanges when contemplating its potential value ceiling. In other words, the speculative value of this token might have a limit to it due to being tied to an actual asset with measurable value. So, my proposition is that the backing of the token by the rental/infrastructure both gives it real value (as opposed to purely speculative value) as well as real limits (as opposed to a lot of these coins/tokens that are backed by nothing but are able to grow endlessly).

Of course, as I mentioned, I concede completely that this value varies based on current demand and predicted future demand.
I bought wtt so I obviously don't doubt its potential. But I wonder if it has a self-imposed value limit that other tokens don't necessarily have?

I am curious to hear from smarter people than myself, because I am basically pulling this out of my butt. I hear people talking about market cap and supply and blah blah, and most of that means nothing to me, so maybe I am oversimplifying in my thought process out of ignorance. Maybe speculation ignores silly things like real value. I genuinely do not know.

Price to the downside should be the net present value of the cost reduction of rental fees under the assumption that mining is profitabel at all times. Cost reduction for the starter tariff is 9,75 – 3,3 c/kWh = 6,45 c/kWh multiplied with 24/1000*100 = 0,001548 $/day multiplied with 365 = 0,57 $/year (which is not 100% in line with calculator: 0,59 $/year). For further simplification we assume that this cost reduction is perpetual since 50 years in the crypto space is sort of everlasting. I then take an insane high discount rate of 50% (I really don‘t know better) which leaves me with a NPV for the token = 0,57/0,5 = 1,14 $. All factors and assumptions arguable.


Price to the upside: let‘s assume all tokens are sold and all token holders are mining and I have a left over miner at Giga Watt. How much would I be willing to pay to a token holder? I then would be willing to pay the net present value of the complete cost reduction when mining at Giga Watt in comparison to mining at home. At home with noise and neighbours ignored I then would pay 27 c/kWh which is the residential price for electricity at my home town (in Germany) with a rental fee of zero and maintenance fee also at zero. The cost reduction would be 27 c/kWh (at home) – 3,3 c/kWh (at GW for WTT holders) = 23,7 c/kWh when mining at GW. 23,7 c/kWh *24/1000*100 = 0,005688 $/day * 365 = 2,08 $/year. I again take the same high discount rate of 50% which leaves me with a NPV of the cost reduction when mining at GW instead if mining at home = 2,08 /0,5 = 4,16 $ which I am willing to pay for a token. If the price is higher I mine at home, if it is lower I buy the token and mine at GW. All factors and assumptions again arguable. Especially the assumtion that at 27 c/kWh mining at home is profitabel. Since I have no numbers I really don‘t know. Maybe I just would be better off selling the miner.

You forget one additional and very driving force in peoples minds, convenience.
I would rather pay someone to monitor my miners than watch them myself because I'd like to think I have better things to do than listen to the low humming noise all day lol.

[angelslayer]

Hello all, may I know how many more days will go to week 5 and 6 whereby the token rate will increase to $1.10 / token?
Cheers!

[aycaramba]

Dave, Cryptonomos Hello,

I am interested in buying tens to hundreds of thousands of WTT. At first I was quite excited with your idea but after careful examination I'm not so sure and I have some serious questions about your business model.

1. If space requirement for mining equipment doubles per 1W of power due to Moore's law in semiconductor manufacturing advances. Power consumption of chips drops down significantly with each generation. I have the following question.
For Example:
Currently some Mining GPU setup is taking 60x60x60 cm of space and consumes 1Kw/h of electricity.
In two years if equipment is upgraded to latest models that will require TWO GPU setups of 60x60x60 cm for the same 1Kw/h of electricity.

To meet your obligations to WTT token holders, Will Giga-Watt build new Giga-pods on a constant basis and allocate the additional space required for equipment upgrades on demand every couple of years for 50 years ?!?

2. Will Giga-Watt provide some storage to customers for spare parts for mining equipment that will wear out?
3. What about Network bandwidth? How much is provided with each 1W of power? Is there an option to buy more bandwidth?
4. What are the moisute levels in the area of the Giga-Watt pods? What is the effect on equipment from your experience? Is there rust after 1-2 years of operation?
5. You say you can meet customers custom demands. Why are you not providing your co-location customers the ability for remote access to their equipment hosted at your facilities?

Are your customers able to manage their hosted mining hardware themselves and have full control of it?

The equipment is managed by professionals with years of experience in mining.
They understand what is profitable to mine now, which pool is more profitable, etc.
They can quickly repair equipment.
We are in the same boat, the more profitable for you, the more profitable for Giga Watt.

So your technicians will decide what is profitable to mine on behalf of your customers and on their equipment? What is this??
You say repeatedly throughout the thread that customers can choose what coins they mine. Then you say exactly the opposite.

6. On the below comment you state there are not set up fees. But later in this thread you stated there is one time setup fee of $20 for aciscs and $40 for GPU rigs. Are there any other Hidden fees?

Otherwise i see no real difference to cloud mining.

First and foremost it is our transparency. Giga Watt's facility is a real-life tangible project which you can tour if you attend our Open House, which we hold twice a month. Giga Watt's customers own the specific equipment: They know their serial numbers and can see them on the shelves in the unit. Another advantage is that Giga Watt's customers purchase their equipment at cost, without any markup, pay zero setup fees and extremely low effective electricity and maintenance fees: just 2.8c и 0.5c per kW/h respectively.

7. Who are "retail customers"? Customers who buy full turnkey mining or WTT token holders?
From https://cryptonomos.com/wtt/faq
"Does Giga Watt only mine bitcoins?
Giga Watt mines all scalable cryptocurrencies: BTC, LTC, ETH/MONERO/ZCASH/DASH. The decision of what currency to mine is made by the customers who own the mining equipment. But at this stage it is technically impossible to offer all of these options to retail customers. Giga Watt is working on the solution, and hopefully in the future this option will be offered. At this point retail customers can mine only BTC, ETH, and LTC."

8. If you don't provide your customers with remote access to their equipment. How can your customers be sure you are not overclocking their equipment for  for 10-15% to your advantage (especially GPU setups) in expense of the lifetime of the equipment?
9. Cryptonomos. Who are you? What is your name? Would be nice to know who are we talking to. Are you a Cryptonomos or Giga-Watt employee? I you rather prefer to remain anonymous. Please ask Dave Carlson to answer these questions from his account here on BitcoinTalk.
10. What exactly is included in $0.5 cents maintenance fee? Which kind of work/procedures?
11. If I decide to power off my miners for a period of time. Will there be any charges? Since I paid for the rent for 50 year ahead can I store my miners there even if they are offline as how much as I need?

Unless you can provide satisfying answers to the above questions, Especially question 1 and 5. I will unfortunately have to pass on your business proposal.

The ability for me to fully control my hosted hardware via remote access is a "To be or not to be" type of issue.

Best Regards.

@cryptonomos, why are the excellent questions of post no. 667 ignored?

[SaVatin]

Hello Gigga Watt 

iam already have a token and I want to order L3+ but its sold out on the web
but I check in bitmain.com its available to order , so I have a question , can I order the miners with bitmain and put your address?
and there is any charge?

[xcajun21]

The power supply and the shipping cost.

[chip1982]

Hi Giga Watt,

please put the mining efficiency calculator back online.

Thanks!

[Albortz]

I have some doubts. Will this Token be sold in markets such as poloniex, Bifinex, etc? Each Token has its value attached to 1 Watt of power, is that it? If this is the more expensive to get the more expensive the farm energy, so we should not expect the value of the token to go to the moon, right?

I had the same thought.  Disclaimer: I am new to all of this.
By being attached to the 50 year 1 watt of power, it might put a fairly hard ceiling on the value of the token.
If people can become convinced that the value of the token is based on the value of 50 years of 1 watt rental at Gigawatt, and the rental fee has a fixed amount (as it appears to have), then you can literally calculate the exact value of the coin (obviously this assumes nothing changes over the next 50 years, which is ridiculous.  But you get my point.)

According to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You can rent the tokens out for a max of $0.56502 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $28.25 per token.

Of course this assumes the tokens are being rented out.  But a similar formula could be used, based on the savings in rental fees, if the tokens were being used to cover miner rental feesL
Again, according to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You will save $0.5913 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $29.565 per token.

So, based on this simple concept, we would assume that the value of one token should be at the very most $29.565, which is awesome for investors if it actually went this high.

Of course people will guess about what the value of mining/electricity will be over the next 50 years and apply that to the possible future value the token brings.  That's where things get interesting, I suppose.

Again I am totally new at this and I realize this is simple logic that only works in a vacuum.  But I thought it might be worthwhile to consider.

If you look into the future, that would be correct calculations - but the value might vary due to changes in demand. Also you may sell your WTT on public exchanges once it gets listed there.

Right. I was referring to the public exchanges when contemplating its potential value ceiling. In other words, the speculative value of this token might have a limit to it due to being tied to an actual asset with measurable value. So, my proposition is that the backing of the token by the rental/infrastructure both gives it real value (as opposed to purely speculative value) as well as real limits (as opposed to a lot of these coins/tokens that are backed by nothing but are able to grow endlessly).

Of course, as I mentioned, I concede completely that this value varies based on current demand and predicted future demand.
I bought wtt so I obviously don't doubt its potential. But I wonder if it has a self-imposed value limit that other tokens don't necessarily have?

I am curious to hear from smarter people than myself, because I am basically pulling this out of my butt. I hear people talking about market cap and supply and blah blah, and most of that means nothing to me, so maybe I am oversimplifying in my thought process out of ignorance. Maybe speculation ignores silly things like real value. I genuinely do not know.

Price to the downside should be the net present value of the cost reduction of rental fees under the assumption that mining is profitabel at all times. Cost reduction for the starter tariff is 9,75 – 3,3 c/kWh = 6,45 c/kWh multiplied with 24/1000*100 = 0,001548 $/day multiplied with 365 = 0,57 $/year (which is not 100% in line with calculator: 0,59 $/year). For further simplification we assume that this cost reduction is perpetual since 50 years in the crypto space is sort of everlasting. I then take an insane high discount rate of 50% (I really don‘t know better) which leaves me with a NPV for the token = 0,57/0,5 = 1,14 $. All factors and assumptions arguable.


Price to the upside: let‘s assume all tokens are sold and all token holders are mining and I have a left over miner at Giga Watt. How much would I be willing to pay to a token holder? I then would be willing to pay the net present value of the complete cost reduction when mining at Giga Watt in comparison to mining at home. At home with noise and neighbours ignored I then would pay 27 c/kWh which is the residential price for electricity at my home town (in Germany) with a rental fee of zero and maintenance fee also at zero. The cost reduction would be 27 c/kWh (at home) – 3,3 c/kWh (at GW for WTT holders) = 23,7 c/kWh when mining at GW. 23,7 c/kWh *24/1000*100 = 0,005688 $/day * 365 = 2,08 $/year. I again take the same high discount rate of 50% which leaves me with a NPV of the cost reduction when mining at GW instead if mining at home = 2,08 /0,5 = 4,16 $ which I am willing to pay for a token. If the price is higher I mine at home, if it is lower I buy the token and mine at GW. All factors and assumptions again arguable. Especially the assumtion that at 27 c/kWh mining at home is profitabel. Since I have no numbers I really don‘t know. Maybe I just would be better off selling the miner.

This calculation is good, but if i did not make a typo in my calculator, you need to be aware that the NPV is    Cx/(1+r)^x + .... +  Ch/(1+r)^H
The later the cash-flow, the less value it brings to the NPV. The DF is potentiated with he year of the cashflow.

But still one of the closest calculations in this threat 




If you are in germany, I would advise you to not run the miners. The problem is the heat and the noise. You could look around and find datacenter in sweden or finnland, charging you 15c/kwh.   There you would have a lot longer until your marginal costs equal your marginal revenue.


Of course the Giga Watt option reduces or prolongs that point a lot (in case you run it for around 15 month with is the BEP)

Anyhow, if you want to sell your miner, shoot me a message I might be interested 

[N1CKH0LAS]

Unfortunatelly, I have to agree with what have been written here. Cryptonomos is evading the most pertinent questions, while only answering the easy ones ( the answer for the easy ones are found in the white paper aswell ).

Wanted to put at least 10k into this ICO, but it's getting kinda shady. I've put 2k in tokens and about the same amount in mining equipment, but will have to stop there.
Also, another shady aspect is the fact that, after they receive your miner, it will take up to 5 days to set it up !!! 5 days to install a miner, can you believe that ?

Obviously, one can easily suspect them that they mine for themselves during those 5 days, not to mention the danger of overclocking your equipment  (and keep the extra proffit for themselves) without you being able to veriffy that.

[DonApp]

Is there anyone from Giga-watt on this thread to give answers with respect to hosting your own equipment? Any details on the requirements of hosting your equipment?

[kvb]

Dave, Cryptonomos Hello,

I am interested in buying tens to hundreds of thousands of WTT. At first I was quite excited with your idea but after careful examination I'm not so sure and I have some serious questions about your business model.

1. If space requirement for mining equipment doubles per 1W of power due to Moore's law in semiconductor manufacturing advances. Power consumption of chips drops down significantly with each generation. I have the following question.
For Example:
Currently some Mining GPU setup is taking 60x60x60 cm of space and consumes 1Kw/h of electricity.
In two years if equipment is upgraded to latest models that will require TWO GPU setups of 60x60x60 cm for the same 1Kw/h of electricity.

To meet your obligations to WTT token holders, Will Giga-Watt build new Giga-pods on a constant basis and allocate the additional space required for equipment upgrades on demand every couple of years for 50 years ?!?

2. Will Giga-Watt provide some storage to customers for spare parts for mining equipment that will wear out?
3. What about Network bandwidth? How much is provided with each 1W of power? Is there an option to buy more bandwidth?
4. What are the moisute levels in the area of the Giga-Watt pods? What is the effect on equipment from your experience? Is there rust after 1-2 years of operation?
5. You say you can meet customers custom demands. Why are you not providing your co-location customers the ability for remote access to their equipment hosted at your facilities?

Are your customers able to manage their hosted mining hardware themselves and have full control of it?

The equipment is managed by professionals with years of experience in mining.
They understand what is profitable to mine now, which pool is more profitable, etc.
They can quickly repair equipment.
We are in the same boat, the more profitable for you, the more profitable for Giga Watt.

So your technicians will decide what is profitable to mine on behalf of your customers and on their equipment? What is this??
You say repeatedly throughout the thread that customers can choose what coins they mine. Then you say exactly the opposite.

6. On the below comment you state there are not set up fees. But later in this thread you stated there is one time setup fee of $20 for aciscs and $40 for GPU rigs. Are there any other Hidden fees?

Otherwise i see no real difference to cloud mining.

First and foremost it is our transparency. Giga Watt's facility is a real-life tangible project which you can tour if you attend our Open House, which we hold twice a month. Giga Watt's customers own the specific equipment: They know their serial numbers and can see them on the shelves in the unit. Another advantage is that Giga Watt's customers purchase their equipment at cost, without any markup, pay zero setup fees and extremely low effective electricity and maintenance fees: just 2.8c и 0.5c per kW/h respectively.

7. Who are "retail customers"? Customers who buy full turnkey mining or WTT token holders?
From https://cryptonomos.com/wtt/faq
"Does Giga Watt only mine bitcoins?
Giga Watt mines all scalable cryptocurrencies: BTC, LTC, ETH/MONERO/ZCASH/DASH. The decision of what currency to mine is made by the customers who own the mining equipment. But at this stage it is technically impossible to offer all of these options to retail customers. Giga Watt is working on the solution, and hopefully in the future this option will be offered. At this point retail customers can mine only BTC, ETH, and LTC."

8. If you don't provide your customers with remote access to their equipment. How can your customers be sure you are not overclocking their equipment for  for 10-15% to your advantage (especially GPU setups) in expense of the lifetime of the equipment?
9. Cryptonomos. Who are you? What is your name? Would be nice to know who are we talking to. Are you a Cryptonomos or Giga-Watt employee? I you rather prefer to remain anonymous. Please ask Dave Carlson to answer these questions from his account here on BitcoinTalk.
10. What exactly is included in $0.5 cents maintenance fee? Which kind of work/procedures?
11. If I decide to power off my miners for a period of time. Will there be any charges? Since I paid for the rent for 50 year ahead can I store my miners there even if they are offline as how much as I need?

Unless you can provide satisfying answers to the above questions, Especially question 1 and 5. I will unfortunately have to pass on your business proposal.

The ability for me to fully control my hosted hardware via remote access is a "To be or not to be" type of issue.

Best Regards.

@cryptonomos, why are the excellent questions of post no. 667 ignored?

I don't think they have any sensible answers or don't care.

In both cases I am hesitant to buy their tokens and ship them millions worth of equipment for them to handle.

[Affilate User]

Is there anyone from Giga-watt on this thread to give answers with respect to hosting your own equipment? Any details on the requirements of hosting your equipment?

Yes, they do not provide specific information,
but that is the key to success for an project.
What makes you ignore the important thing, like this guy's question?

[chip1982]

I have some doubts. Will this Token be sold in markets such as poloniex, Bifinex, etc? Each Token has its value attached to 1 Watt of power, is that it? If this is the more expensive to get the more expensive the farm energy, so we should not expect the value of the token to go to the moon, right?

I had the same thought.  Disclaimer: I am new to all of this.
By being attached to the 50 year 1 watt of power, it might put a fairly hard ceiling on the value of the token.
If people can become convinced that the value of the token is based on the value of 50 years of 1 watt rental at Gigawatt, and the rental fee has a fixed amount (as it appears to have), then you can literally calculate the exact value of the coin (obviously this assumes nothing changes over the next 50 years, which is ridiculous.  But you get my point.)

According to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You can rent the tokens out for a max of $0.56502 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $28.25 per token.

Of course this assumes the tokens are being rented out.  But a similar formula could be used, based on the savings in rental fees, if the tokens were being used to cover miner rental feesL
Again, according to the cryptonomos calculator which is available here: https://cryptonomos.com/?r=1lv0eNDlOmhWNTu18ev35yyLJ
You will save $0.5913 per token per year.
Multiply that by 50 years, and you get a lifetime value of $29.565 per token.

So, based on this simple concept, we would assume that the value of one token should be at the very most $29.565, which is awesome for investors if it actually went this high.

Of course people will guess about what the value of mining/electricity will be over the next 50 years and apply that to the possible future value the token brings.  That's where things get interesting, I suppose.

Again I am totally new at this and I realize this is simple logic that only works in a vacuum.  But I thought it might be worthwhile to consider.

If you look into the future, that would be correct calculations - but the value might vary due to changes in demand. Also you may sell your WTT on public exchanges once it gets listed there.

Right. I was referring to the public exchanges when contemplating its potential value ceiling. In other words, the speculative value of this token might have a limit to it due to being tied to an actual asset with measurable value. So, my proposition is that the backing of the token by the rental/infrastructure both gives it real value (as opposed to purely speculative value) as well as real limits (as opposed to a lot of these coins/tokens that are backed by nothing but are able to grow endlessly).

Of course, as I mentioned, I concede completely that this value varies based on current demand and predicted future demand.
I bought wtt so I obviously don't doubt its potential. But I wonder if it has a self-imposed value limit that other tokens don't necessarily have?

I am curious to hear from smarter people than myself, because I am basically pulling this out of my butt. I hear people talking about market cap and supply and blah blah, and most of that means nothing to me, so maybe I am oversimplifying in my thought process out of ignorance. Maybe speculation ignores silly things like real value. I genuinely do not know.

Price to the downside should be the net present value of the cost reduction of rental fees under the assumption that mining is profitabel at all times. Cost reduction for the starter tariff is 9,75 – 3,3 c/kWh = 6,45 c/kWh multiplied with 24/1000*100 = 0,001548 $/day multiplied with 365 = 0,57 $/year (which is not 100% in line with calculator: 0,59 $/year). For further simplification we assume that this cost reduction is perpetual since 50 years in the crypto space is sort of everlasting. I then take an insane high discount rate of 50% (I really don‘t know better) which leaves me with a NPV for the token = 0,57/0,5 = 1,14 $. All factors and assumptions arguable.


Price to the upside: let‘s assume all tokens are sold and all token holders are mining and I have a left over miner at Giga Watt. How much would I be willing to pay to a token holder? I then would be willing to pay the net present value of the complete cost reduction when mining at Giga Watt in comparison to mining at home. At home with noise and neighbours ignored I then would pay 27 c/kWh which is the residential price for electricity at my home town (in Germany) with a rental fee of zero and maintenance fee also at zero. The cost reduction would be 27 c/kWh (at home) – 3,3 c/kWh (at GW for WTT holders) = 23,7 c/kWh when mining at GW. 23,7 c/kWh *24/1000*100 = 0,005688 $/day * 365 = 2,08 $/year. I again take the same high discount rate of 50% which leaves me with a NPV of the cost reduction when mining at GW instead if mining at home = 2,08 /0,5 = 4,16 $ which I am willing to pay for a token. If the price is higher I mine at home, if it is lower I buy the token and mine at GW. All factors and assumptions again arguable. Especially the assumtion that at 27 c/kWh mining at home is profitabel. Since I have no numbers I really don‘t know. Maybe I just would be better off selling the miner.

This calculation is good, but if i did not make a typo in my calculator, you need to be aware that the NPV is    Cx/(1+r)^x + .... +  Ch/(1+r)^H
The later the cash-flow, the less value it brings to the NPV. The DF is potentiated with he year of the cashflow.

But still one of the closest calculations in this threat 




If you are in germany, I would advise you to not run the miners. The problem is the heat and the noise. You could look around and find datacenter in sweden or finnland, charging you 15c/kwh.   There you would have a lot longer until your marginal costs equal your marginal revenue.


Of course the Giga Watt option reduces or prolongs that point a lot (in case you run it for around 15 month with is the BEP)

Anyhow, if you want to sell your miner, shoot me a message I might be interested 

You are right. Your formula is indeed the correct one. I was just too lazy to calculate it. Therefore I assumed perpetual cost reduction when using my formula and of course 50 years is clearly not perpetual. It should not make a too big difference.

Did you calculate it with your formula? May I ask what results you have?

Currently I have no left over miner, it was just a theoretical szenario to point out the options. Rather I might not have enough miners  like all of us.

[chip1982]

Dave, Cryptonomos Hello,

I am interested in buying tens to hundreds of thousands of WTT. At first I was quite excited with your idea but after careful examination I'm not so sure and I have some serious questions about your business model.

1. If space requirement for mining equipment doubles per 1W of power due to Moore's law in semiconductor manufacturing advances. Power consumption of chips drops down significantly with each generation. I have the following question.
For Example:
Currently some Mining GPU setup is taking 60x60x60 cm of space and consumes 1Kw/h of electricity.
In two years if equipment is upgraded to latest models that will require TWO GPU setups of 60x60x60 cm for the same 1Kw/h of electricity.

To meet your obligations to WTT token holders, Will Giga-Watt build new Giga-pods on a constant basis and allocate the additional space required for equipment upgrades on demand every couple of years for 50 years ?!?

2. Will Giga-Watt provide some storage to customers for spare parts for mining equipment that will wear out?
3. What about Network bandwidth? How much is provided with each 1W of power? Is there an option to buy more bandwidth?
4. What are the moisute levels in the area of the Giga-Watt pods? What is the effect on equipment from your experience? Is there rust after 1-2 years of operation?
5. You say you can meet customers custom demands. Why are you not providing your co-location customers the ability for remote access to their equipment hosted at your facilities?

Are your customers able to manage their hosted mining hardware themselves and have full control of it?

The equipment is managed by professionals with years of experience in mining.
They understand what is profitable to mine now, which pool is more profitable, etc.
They can quickly repair equipment.
We are in the same boat, the more profitable for you, the more profitable for Giga Watt.

So your technicians will decide what is profitable to mine on behalf of your customers and on their equipment? What is this??
You say repeatedly throughout the thread that customers can choose what coins they mine. Then you say exactly the opposite.

6. On the below comment you state there are not set up fees. But later in this thread you stated there is one time setup fee of $20 for aciscs and $40 for GPU rigs. Are there any other Hidden fees?

Otherwise i see no real difference to cloud mining.

First and foremost it is our transparency. Giga Watt's facility is a real-life tangible project which you can tour if you attend our Open House, which we hold twice a month. Giga Watt's customers own the specific equipment: They know their serial numbers and can see them on the shelves in the unit. Another advantage is that Giga Watt's customers purchase their equipment at cost, without any markup, pay zero setup fees and extremely low effective electricity and maintenance fees: just 2.8c и 0.5c per kW/h respectively.

7. Who are "retail customers"? Customers who buy full turnkey mining or WTT token holders?
From https://cryptonomos.com/wtt/faq
"Does Giga Watt only mine bitcoins?
Giga Watt mines all scalable cryptocurrencies: BTC, LTC, ETH/MONERO/ZCASH/DASH. The decision of what currency to mine is made by the customers who own the mining equipment. But at this stage it is technically impossible to offer all of these options to retail customers. Giga Watt is working on the solution, and hopefully in the future this option will be offered. At this point retail customers can mine only BTC, ETH, and LTC."

8. If you don't provide your customers with remote access to their equipment. How can your customers be sure you are not overclocking their equipment for  for 10-15% to your advantage (especially GPU setups) in expense of the lifetime of the equipment?
9. Cryptonomos. Who are you? What is your name? Would be nice to know who are we talking to. Are you a Cryptonomos or Giga-Watt employee? I you rather prefer to remain anonymous. Please ask Dave Carlson to answer these questions from his account here on BitcoinTalk.
10. What exactly is included in $0.5 cents maintenance fee? Which kind of work/procedures?
11. If I decide to power off my miners for a period of time. Will there be any charges? Since I paid for the rent for 50 year ahead can I store my miners there even if they are offline as how much as I need?

Unless you can provide satisfying answers to the above questions, Especially question 1 and 5. I will unfortunately have to pass on your business proposal.

The ability for me to fully control my hosted hardware via remote access is a "To be or not to be" type of issue.

Best Regards.

@cryptonomos, why are the excellent questions of post no. 667 ignored?

I don't think they have any sensible answers or don't care.

In both cases I am hesitant to buy their tokens and ship them millions worth of equipment for them to handle.

Did you contact GW directly with these questions? I believe they are too specific for cryptonomos to know about.

[DonApp]

Dave, Cryptonomos Hello,

I am interested in buying tens to hundreds of thousands of WTT. At first I was quite excited with your idea but after careful examination I'm not so sure and I have some serious questions about your business model.

1. If space requirement for mining equipment doubles per 1W of power due to Moore's law in semiconductor manufacturing advances. Power consumption of chips drops down significantly with each generation. I have the following question.
For Example:
Currently some Mining GPU setup is taking 60x60x60 cm of space and consumes 1Kw/h of electricity.
In two years if equipment is upgraded to latest models that will require TWO GPU setups of 60x60x60 cm for the same 1Kw/h of electricity.

To meet your obligations to WTT token holders, Will Giga-Watt build new Giga-pods on a constant basis and allocate the additional space required for equipment upgrades on demand every couple of years for 50 years ?!?

2. Will Giga-Watt provide some storage to customers for spare parts for mining equipment that will wear out?
3. What about Network bandwidth? How much is provided with each 1W of power? Is there an option to buy more bandwidth?
4. What are the moisute levels in the area of the Giga-Watt pods? What is the effect on equipment from your experience? Is there rust after 1-2 years of operation?
5. You say you can meet customers custom demands. Why are you not providing your co-location customers the ability for remote access to their equipment hosted at your facilities?

Are your customers able to manage their hosted mining hardware themselves and have full control of it?

The equipment is managed by professionals with years of experience in mining.
They understand what is profitable to mine now, which pool is more profitable, etc.
They can quickly repair equipment.
We are in the same boat, the more profitable for you, the more profitable for Giga Watt.

So your technicians will decide what is profitable to mine on behalf of your customers and on their equipment? What is this??
You say repeatedly throughout the thread that customers can choose what coins they mine. Then you say exactly the opposite.

6. On the below comment you state there are not set up fees. But later in this thread you stated there is one time setup fee of $20 for aciscs and $40 for GPU rigs. Are there any other Hidden fees?

Otherwise i see no real difference to cloud mining.

First and foremost it is our transparency. Giga Watt's facility is a real-life tangible project which you can tour if you attend our Open House, which we hold twice a month. Giga Watt's customers own the specific equipment: They know their serial numbers and can see them on the shelves in the unit. Another advantage is that Giga Watt's customers purchase their equipment at cost, without any markup, pay zero setup fees and extremely low effective electricity and maintenance fees: just 2.8c и 0.5c per kW/h respectively.

7. Who are "retail customers"? Customers who buy full turnkey mining or WTT token holders?
From https://cryptonomos.com/wtt/faq
"Does Giga Watt only mine bitcoins?
Giga Watt mines all scalable cryptocurrencies: BTC, LTC, ETH/MONERO/ZCASH/DASH. The decision of what currency to mine is made by the customers who own the mining equipment. But at this stage it is technically impossible to offer all of these options to retail customers. Giga Watt is working on the solution, and hopefully in the future this option will be offered. At this point retail customers can mine only BTC, ETH, and LTC."

8. If you don't provide your customers with remote access to their equipment. How can your customers be sure you are not overclocking their equipment for  for 10-15% to your advantage (especially GPU setups) in expense of the lifetime of the equipment?
9. Cryptonomos. Who are you? What is your name? Would be nice to know who are we talking to. Are you a Cryptonomos or Giga-Watt employee? I you rather prefer to remain anonymous. Please ask Dave Carlson to answer these questions from his account here on BitcoinTalk.
10. What exactly is included in $0.5 cents maintenance fee? Which kind of work/procedures?
11. If I decide to power off my miners for a period of time. Will there be any charges? Since I paid for the rent for 50 year ahead can I store my miners there even if they are offline as how much as I need?

Unless you can provide satisfying answers to the above questions, Especially question 1 and 5. I will unfortunately have to pass on your business proposal.

The ability for me to fully control my hosted hardware via remote access is a "To be or not to be" type of issue.

Best Regards.

@cryptonomos, why are the excellent questions of post no. 667 ignored?

I don't think they have any sensible answers or don't care.

In both cases I am hesitant to buy their tokens and ship them millions worth of equipment for them to handle.

Did you contact GW directly with these questions? I believe they are too specific for cryptonomos to know about.

I think the 'problem' is the fact that Cryptonomos is running this thread. With all do respect, he/she only facilitates the token sale and is not part of the Giga-Watt team as far as I understood. Keeping this in mind it is not strange that this person cannot answer all questions. I would really prefer someone from the Giga-Watt team to join this thread and answer the questions, which they can do with much more depth I believe. This would also be much more effective, since then everyone can read their answers.

[Mrbates]

I will say this in regards to post 667 I did message the authors of the posts to contact one of gw customer support people on skype (gave the persons skype contact to them).

I don't think they have, but the option is there.


Cryptonomos is also the escrow provider, not the giga-watt team which is most likely why they only answer the easy questions.

I've said a couple of times, message giga-watts support they're pretty quick on the reply side.

[jakeyourlilly]

I've said a couple of times, message giga-watts support they're pretty quick on the reply side.

i can second this. I haven't decided if I'm going to invest yet, but I can attest to the fast and friendly responses directly from GW support. including spreadsheets where applicable.

[SaVatin]

why I can't order L3+ on the website ,

[Mrbates]

why I can't order L3+ on the website ,

Out of stock I'm guessing, I think they're limited to 100 miners per posting.  They go fast af too.