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Author Topic: ⚡⛏️[ANN] Giga Watt: Best Home for your Mining. Starts today!  (Read 143989 times)
rafzalan
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August 07, 2017, 07:09:53 PM
 #1101

The way it usually works is that the exchange disables withdrawal function, until they actual tokens are available and they have enough liquidity to pay off the IUOs. I wouldn't risk it. Usually they'll give you an excuse if you try to withdraw, like the wallet is under maintenance or something like that.
So, it is the exchange, and not a IUO token seller who owes tokens to the buyer ?    If somebody sells  futures on wtt token, isn't it him who must supply tokens to the buyer in future?   The seller gets money(BTC) now for the future wtt tokens,  not exchange, so why exchange will need to supply them? 

https://blog.hitbtc.com/ico-faq/

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August 07, 2017, 08:11:48 PM
 #1102


Thank you, this is completely clear now!!    Smiley

The only potential obstacle I see here is that giga-watt was planning to place tokens on exchange in 3 monthes period after the launch - that is somewhere in November.  Market makers will get the tokens much earlier - in Aug&Sep.  In order to distribute tokens to those who bought from them on hitbtc, market makers will need to have possibility to withdraw tokens from Giga-watt/cryptonomos in Aug&Sep.  If giga-watt won't allow to withdraw tokens till November, the buyers will have to wait till that time....


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August 08, 2017, 11:30:11 AM
 #1103

Hi,

Anybody know when the first machines will start mining with the tokens.
I am not sure what was suppose to start first ? S9 or Pandaminer, And when ?

I have seen the Pods construction progress on twitter and Insta and that some Pandaminer were delivered days ago.
Also Batch1 of tokens is out now.

It would be great to have some comments of when tokens holders will start using them. With and without miner.
I am starting with Batch 3 and 1 S9. Probably around 1st september with both tokens and miner.

I did not post this message, The Russians did it !
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August 08, 2017, 12:40:58 PM
 #1104

Giga has full control of your miners. They set the algorithm they set the pool, the owner of the miner has nothing to do and no power to decide what should happen with his equipment!!!



Also everyone who is looking to place miners there and is not US citizen or green card holder, be aware that you need to register a company in the US because it is already considered a permanent place of production and GIGA is cooperating with the IRS and will tell who the owner is when they ask.

Can Giga Watt please confirm if it's true? They should accepted only US citizens for ICO then!
No need to ask for confirmation from GigaWatt.
That guy is spewing nonsense.



I am not spewing nonsense. But if you think so, please enlighten me 







They are managing your shit and not you. You can't switch pools like you want its their business model. I can send you a couple more emails if you wish...


And regarding the legal problems, they were pointed out from me and multiple other people weeks ago already. Feel free to go back, my questions and concerns were by far the modest....


And tax problems are there and will become a serious problem for GIGA if they allow all customers to place miners there. The tax law is clear and so is the definition of a business and a permanent place of production. In the USA in the UK or whatever country you wanna choose...

A business has to know its customers. Placing miners from people in the pods because they bought anonymously some ICO is the complete opposite of knowing what miner belongs to whom...



European Banks cancel accounts and business relations with american citizen and green card holder just to prevent being sued for the support of tax evasion...


But of course america and the IRS will stand back and watch when people make money within the USA, not declaring that income and profit and transferring that wherever they want.

Its not like you already need to declare if you bring money in and out the country or where you got your 10k cash deposit from....





I would not say anything if they would restrict it to American citizen but they don't. And if they get sued because 1 or 2 crooks use their system to make money and they were not stepping in to prevent that, they have to pay big money and guess who will pay for that in the end....
 

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August 08, 2017, 01:01:29 PM
 #1105


So guys this is really cool now that WTT Tokens have been distributed I have made an account on Giga-Watt.com I have transfered my WTT from Cryptonomos.com to Giga-Watt.com easily and free of charge. I also received another 62 WTT from a referral purchase in the final days of the token sale. So I wanted to thank Cryptonomo for hosting a great ICO and having a great site with the referral bonus feature. I bought 505 WTT and received a whopping 144 bonus WTT from referrals in total! Can't wait to use Giga-Watt's service for a long time as well as Cryptonomo's - thanks again and best wishes to you all.

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August 08, 2017, 02:03:21 PM
 #1106

I admire everyone's passion and willingness to share information on the tax and legal implications of cryptocurrency mining, but let's face it: None of us, to my knowledge, are tax lawyers or accountants.

If you're a miner, talk to a tax or accounting professional to understand your situation.  I've paid accountants and tax lawyers enough money over the years to keep me out of trouble with the IRS and structure my finances to be reasonably tax-efficient.

Everyone's situation is different.  Talk to a professional.  Not doing so could cost you a lot of money in the long run.


Giga has full control of your miners. They set the algorithm they set the pool, the owner of the miner has nothing to do and no power to decide what should happen with his equipment!!!

Also everyone who is looking to place miners there and is not US citizen or green card holder, be aware that you need to register a company in the US because it is already considered a permanent place of production and GIGA is cooperating with the IRS and will tell who the owner is when they ask.

Can Giga Watt please confirm if it's true? They should accepted only US citizens for ICO then!
No need to ask for confirmation from GigaWatt.
That guy is spewing nonsense.

I am not spewing nonsense. But if you think so, please enlighten me 

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/33697840/Bildschirmfoto2017-08-08um14.26.20.png

They are managing your shit and not you. You can't switch pools like you want its their business model. I can send you a couple more emails if you wish...

And regarding the legal problems, they were pointed out from me and multiple other people weeks ago already. Feel free to go back, my questions and concerns were by far the modest....

And tax problems are there and will become a serious problem for GIGA if they allow all customers to place miners there. The tax law is clear and so is the definition of a business and a permanent place of production. In the USA in the UK or whatever country you wanna choose...

A business has to know its customers. Placing miners from people in the pods because they bought anonymously some ICO is the complete opposite of knowing what miner belongs to whom...

European Banks cancel accounts and business relations with american citizen and green card holder just to prevent being sued for the support of tax evasion...

But of course america and the IRS will stand back and watch when people make money within the USA, not declaring that income and profit and transferring that wherever they want.

Its not like you already need to declare if you bring money in and out the country or where you got your 10k cash deposit from....

I would not say anything if they would restrict it to American citizen but they don't. And if they get sued because 1 or 2 crooks use their system to make money and they were not stepping in to prevent that, they have to pay big money and guess who will pay for that in the end....
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August 08, 2017, 02:15:21 PM
 #1107

I orderd one L3+ miner, because of the low energy cost and no noise in my house. Now i read about taxes in USA and starting a company there. What is this for aftersales obligation? That obligation of starting a company in they USA for my miner is to mutch for me. Also if dubble taxed then i can better mine at home and pay the energy bill, i think.

I live outside the USA and we have our own tax laws about income. Gigawatt pays tax on energy and loans and .... So i already payed tax for my miner in operation. Then it is calculating decentralised in the cloud on freeware. Gaining i little peace of uniek software what is the value of believe in it by other people. If i cash it in my country to fiat then it is income. Otherwise we gone trade coins for 1 dollar on the taxation date. I also mine by Genesis mining and never heard about tax and they have also facilities in the USA?!

Can GigaWatt officialy clear out this issue for all forner miners.

Thanks  Huh
Albortz
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August 08, 2017, 03:11:55 PM
 #1108

I admire everyone's passion and willingness to share information on the tax and legal implications of cryptocurrency mining, but let's face it: None of us, to my knowledge, are tax lawyers or accountants.

If you're a miner, talk to a tax or accounting professional to understand your situation.  I've paid accountants and tax lawyers enough money over the years to keep me out of trouble with the IRS and structure my finances to be reasonably tax-efficient.

Everyone's situation is different.  Talk to a professional.  Not doing so could cost you a lot of money in the long run.


Giga has full control of your miners. They set the algorithm they set the pool, the owner of the miner has nothing to do and no power to decide what should happen with his equipment!!!

Also everyone who is looking to place miners there and is not US citizen or green card holder, be aware that you need to register a company in the US because it is already considered a permanent place of production and GIGA is cooperating with the IRS and will tell who the owner is when they ask.

Can Giga Watt please confirm if it's true? They should accepted only US citizens for ICO then!
No need to ask for confirmation from GigaWatt.
That guy is spewing nonsense.

I am not spewing nonsense. But if you think so, please enlighten me  



They are managing your shit and not you. You can't switch pools like you want its their business model. I can send you a couple more emails if you wish...

And regarding the legal problems, they were pointed out from me and multiple other people weeks ago already. Feel free to go back, my questions and concerns were by far the modest....

And tax problems are there and will become a serious problem for GIGA if they allow all customers to place miners there. The tax law is clear and so is the definition of a business and a permanent place of production. In the USA in the UK or whatever country you wanna choose...

A business has to know its customers. Placing miners from people in the pods because they bought anonymously some ICO is the complete opposite of knowing what miner belongs to whom...

European Banks cancel accounts and business relations with american citizen and green card holder just to prevent being sued for the support of tax evasion...

But of course america and the IRS will stand back and watch when people make money within the USA, not declaring that income and profit and transferring that wherever they want.

Its not like you already need to declare if you bring money in and out the country or where you got your 10k cash deposit from....

I would not say anything if they would restrict it to American citizen but they don't. And if they get sued because 1 or 2 crooks use their system to make money and they were not stepping in to prevent that, they have to pay big money and guess who will pay for that in the end....



Well this is exactly my point.  No-one in here is doing that. They all think its fun and games....


I am a tax lawyer; not in America but thats why I contacted and hired advisors from one of the big four.  So I kinda know what I am talking about and can more easily see where potential problems might occur.


However, I am kinda sick and tired and will not reply after this post.

No-one here is reading the white paper where Giga states they will exchange informations with the IRS and that every customer is responsible for his tax and legal setup. It makes it just hard to know what to look for when GIGA can't even outline what their model is...


By operating the miners, setting the pools, doing maintenance and being able to take out the daily maintenance fee, does that leave little room to argue that you are the operator from those miners.  

So you are basically giving them a credit, they buy stuff with it and pay you. This could already be seen as a dividend and therefore would fall under a completely different business model than operating your own "farm".



The most worrying part is that they are paying out money for token holder. They don't know who that token holder is, yet they pay again basically dividends to them.


I payed my money, I had hours of conversation with my colleagues in america and multiple other countries to find the right place and this project here is just way to risky.

I am not saying they will scam anyone, but if they don't watch out they can be held accountable for the actions of their customers. And if they get fined, they might have to close and everyone who invested or conducted business looses.




I orderd one L3+ miner, because of the low energy cost and no noise in my house. Now i read about taxes in USA and starting a company there. What is this for aftersales obligation? That obligation of starting a company in they USA for my miner is to mutch for me. Also if dubble taxed then i can better mine at home and pay the energy bill, i think.

I live outside the USA and we have our own tax laws about income. Gigawatt pays tax on energy and loans and .... So i already payed tax for my miner in operation. Then it is calculating decentralised in the cloud on freeware. Gaining i little peace of uniek software what is the value of believe in it by other people. If i cash it in my country to fiat then it is income. Otherwise we gone trade coins for 1 dollar on the taxation date. I also mine by Genesis mining and never heard about tax and they have also facilities in the USA?!

Can GigaWatt officialy clear out this issue for all forner miners.

Thanks  Huh




Well yeah based on current tax law, it would be considered a permanent place of production and therefore you already fall under US tax law.

Genesis does not operate your personal miner. They sell you their personal hash. They are paying taxes on their income and they deduct your payments as dividend payments in their system.

Again, if Giga would say you can rent a miner it would be less of a problem. Still you would need to pay tax on your income

Regarding double taxation, you need to contact a tax advisor in your country and ask him for double taxation agreements between your country and the USA. Most big industrial states got these kinds of agreements to prevent double taxation.


This will give you a good pointer. Next step would be to contact a tax firm in the USA, I can give you some contacts from PWC or E&Y if you need. They can check everything on the american tax side.



Maybe you are lucky and in your case its not a big problem, but for me personally it would, I have more than 500 miners in total in our company structure right now.








For everyone else:


Please keep in mind, that every business is going to be audited. Maybe not this year nor next year, but in 5 years maybe. And if they find out who you are and that you mined with the intention of profit (and we all do that) they will check if you are registered or declared the gains in your tax. If you did not its called tax evasion and you might face painful penalties.





And for everyone doubting what I say, contact giga and ask them about miner setup and control, contact lawyers and tax advisors.  Better to spend a couple hundred bucks before you get in trouble.

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August 08, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
 #1109


So guys this is really cool now that WTT Tokens have been distributed I have made an account on Giga-Watt.com I have transfered my WTT from Cryptonomos.com to Giga-Watt.com easily and free of charge.
hm, i don't see account section on giga-watt.com.   Where is it located?

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August 08, 2017, 04:57:10 PM
 #1110

if they find out who you are and that you mined with the intention of profit (and we all do that) they will check if you are registered or declared the gains in your tax.
Profit arises when one sells crypto for fiat money, doesn't it?  This they can't figure out, unless you show them your wallets, sales on exchanges etc.

Another point,  If you just keep crypto on your wallet, it can't be considered a profit, because crypto is not considered to be money by governments, so there is no profit.     Imagine you bought some game tokens for $1, and just keep them. One day these tokens' price increases to $2.    Will tax authorities demand from you to pay $1 difference ?  Smiley

Another example - you bought 5 years ago one ounce of gold for $1000, and now it costs $1300.  Do you need to pay taxes just because it's market price increased??    Wink

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August 08, 2017, 06:38:28 PM
 #1111

if they find out who you are and that you mined with the intention of profit (and we all do that) they will check if you are registered or declared the gains in your tax.
Profit arises when one sells crypto for fiat money, doesn't it?  This they can't figure out, unless you show them your wallets, sales on exchanges etc.

Another point,  If you just keep crypto on your wallet, it can't be considered a profit, because crypto is not considered to be money by governments, so there is no profit.     Imagine you bought some game tokens for $1, and just keep them. One day these tokens' price increases to $2.    Will tax authorities demand from you to pay $1 difference ?  Smiley

Another example - you bought 5 years ago one ounce of gold for $1000, and now it costs $1300.  Do you need to pay taxes just because it's market price increased??    Wink



Ok just for the fun.


1)  

If they know you were mining. e.x. they know its your miner (your american) they will google how much the hash rate is, look up the info since when the miner is active and they can simply calculate it. The IRS person who is responsible for your account is getting paid to do exactly that.

Second they can just ask GIGA since they manage your miner and will have (or should have) every payment of every miner.

And believing that you can hide your crypto is naive since we see Silk Road vendors getting busted because of money trails years after the takedown....

2)

Crypto is considered legal tender in multiple countries. If you blindly spread informations stating its not considered money, people without knowledge will read that and get tanked....  So please try to at least structure it in a way ppl see you are talking about america.

3)

It is considered profit when you exchange it. This might be the case in america right now, won't stay like this a lot longer.  The simple fact that you can buy with BTC is enough to say the newly generated coins are equal to legal tender that can be used to buy products and services in RL


After that argumentation you would not need to pay any taxes on anything you earn as long as you are payed in BTC.  You are selling/renting hashing power to the network and get payed for it. Your input is electricity. Output BTC.   Thats profit.


4)

Your gold example is basically right. You need to pay taxes on increase of value.  You might have a rule in america like we have, that every gain is tax free as long as between buy and sell is 1 year or more.   And this goes for gold only since it is considered a capital asset.

I don't know that, but as long as it would be under 1 year yes you need to pay taxes on it.  When you buy a painting and it increases in value you got to pay tax on the sale also.  This is not a capital asset, therefore it would be normal sales tax.


Regarding your game token, they will not come after you for 10 bucks. We are talking about more than 10 bucks here.  People will be able to pull thousands of dollars out of their miners. And yes if they can collect tax, they will.




If you are not residing inside the US, they might put you on a list to pull you out of immigration check on your next holiday.  But that is not my concern. Its that GIGA gets fined because they don't make sure they are safe and in the end go belly up and everyone looses their shit.



BTC-e had good people trading their and now look what happened. Money gone, Site gone   the IRS and FBI are partying hard and don't give a shit that thousands of people lost money.  They got their guy right  Roll Eyes


Another example could be coinbase where the IRS and FBI ordered the data of every user that could be of interest

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August 08, 2017, 06:46:53 PM
 #1112

I am not a lawyer. 

Washington State established Bitcoin regulation in 2014.   

Coinlab, Bitcoin Foundation and Bittrex were/are from here -  along with Dave's first venture MegaBigPower, now Giga-Watt.

http://www.dfi.wa.gov/bitcoin

As with most commodities, you are supposed to report net gains.  Do with it what you will.



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August 08, 2017, 08:54:31 PM
 #1113

2)

Crypto is considered legal tender in multiple countries. If you blindly spread informations stating its not considered money, people without knowledge will read that and get tanked....  So please try to at least structure it in a way ppl see you are talking about america.

"virtual currency is not the legal tender of any particular country" - says Professor of Law at Louisiana State University:
https://www.bna.com/taxation-virtual-currency-n73014449855/

Here are a few paragraphs from IRS  FAQs:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Q-1: How is virtual currency treated for federal tax purposes?
A-1: For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax
principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual
currency.

Q-2. Is virtual currency treated as currency for purposes of determining whether
a transaction results in foreign currency gain or loss under U.S. federal tax laws?
A-2: No. Under currently applicable law, virtual currency is not treated as currency that
could generate foreign currency gain or loss for U.S. federal tax purposes.

Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

Q-7: What type of gain or loss does a taxpayer realize on the sale or exchange of
virtual currency?
A-7: The character of the gain or loss generally depends on whether the virtual
currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. A taxpayer generally realizes
capital gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is a capital asset in
the hands of the taxpayer. For example, stocks, bonds, and other investment property
are generally capital assets. A taxpayer generally realizes ordinary gain or loss on the
sale or exchange of virtual currency that is not a capital asset in the hands of the
taxpayer. Inventory and other property held mainly for sale to customers in a trade or
business are examples of property that is not a capital asset.

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer
resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin
transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency
resulting from those activities?
A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value
of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income.

Q-9: Is an individual who “mines” virtual currency as a trade or business subject
to self-employment tax on the income derived from those activities?
A-9: If a taxpayer’s “mining” of virtual currency constitutes a trade or business, and the
“mining” activity is not undertaken by the taxpayer as an employee, the net earnings
from self-employment (generally, gross income derived from carrying on a trade or
business less allowable deductions) resulting from those activities constitute selfemployment
income and are subject to the self-employment tax.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

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August 09, 2017, 05:24:20 AM
 #1114


So guys this is really cool now that WTT Tokens have been distributed I have made an account on Giga-Watt.com I have transfered my WTT from Cryptonomos.com to Giga-Watt.com easily and free of charge.
hm, i don't see account section on giga-watt.com.   Where is it located?


The top right corner, sign up or log in. If you are really having trouble with the account section, let me know then I will show your screen shots.

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August 09, 2017, 05:45:12 AM
 #1115


So guys this is really cool now that WTT Tokens have been distributed I have made an account on Giga-Watt.com I have transfered my WTT from Cryptonomos.com to Giga-Watt.com easily and free of charge.
hm, i don't see account section on giga-watt.com.   Where is it located?


The top right corner, sign up or log in. If you are really having trouble with the account section, let me know then I will show your screen shots.
i don't see it...  The top right corner is Contact us.



---------------------------------
Strange, when I entered under incognito mode, Login/signup menu appeared!  Thanks Smiley

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August 09, 2017, 06:08:11 AM
 #1116


So guys this is really cool now that WTT Tokens have been distributed I have made an account on Giga-Watt.com I have transfered my WTT from Cryptonomos.com to Giga-Watt.com easily and free of charge.
hm, i don't see account section on giga-watt.com.   Where is it located?


The top right corner, sign up or log in. If you are really having trouble with the account section, let me know then I will show your screen shots.
i don't see it...  The top right corner is Contact us.

http://imgur.com/a/YSbpG

---------------------------------
Strange, when I entered under incognito mode, Login/signup menu appeared!  Thanks Smiley

so i have to create gigawatt acc right? and how can i transfer my token to giga watt accout and miners as well
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August 09, 2017, 08:26:48 AM
 #1117

I have 3000 WTT tokens to sell, planned to use them for miners that I have since sold
is it trading somewhere, I am interested in buying some. may be a good bet.
Were you able to figure this out if you can transfer the WTT coins?
iGotHope
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August 09, 2017, 08:37:31 AM
 #1118


@Dev team - what do you plan to do with the unsold tokens - BURN?
Tokens are issued after sales - not purchased will not be released.
Not sure whether "cryptonomos" visit this branch, or maybe smb else can answer:  Will giga-watt start another round of WTT tokens sale in future, maybe?  

Unfortuately i was not following the project from the very beginning, because discovered it's existence in July only.    I bought some tokens and a few miners.  In fact I would like to buy more tokens now, in order to put more miners.  I did not have enough money on hands then, but have now.  

As I know giga-watt builds more facilities than sold tokens, so maybe there is a possibility to start another tokens' round sale? Smiley

At this time, we are not planning a future sale. However once all tokens are distributed, they will be available through Open Exchange.
Would be nice in the future to have another token sale because some of us would want to upgrade or will need to upgrade our machines with more power & simply add more machines since we are going to profit. Like what he said "I did not have enough money on hands then, but have now." Just one of the scenarios. Thanks
Dopert
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August 09, 2017, 09:38:50 AM
 #1119

Txs for the tax input. Still it is all way to mutch for me to interpetate all english definitions and how to handle it. Goverments are to surve people and i am willing to coperate if it make sense and if its fair. I can't help it if they play boegieman and destroy people. The reality for me is that almost all my my money went to tokens and the L3+ miner. So i think the first year i don't have profit for getting back my money.

This issue puts me down and way to complicated so my energy for it stops here. But it was a good point for mine at home and keep things simple.  Grin
katak
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August 09, 2017, 10:15:20 AM
 #1120

Quote
Would be nice in the future to have another token sale because some of us would want to upgrade or will need to upgrade our machines with more power & simply add more machines since we are going to profit. Like what he said "I did not have enough money on hands then, but have now." Just one of the scenarios. Thanks

Well I assume that my choice is renting so this better not to occur... what's the interest of token launch for a period if they allow to sell other ones ?!

Btw, how much do you expect when renting tokens ?

Thx
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