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Author Topic: [Announcement] Block Erupter USB  (Read 240961 times)
Adrian-x
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May 09, 2013, 05:08:54 PM
 #381


If you want it for your time capsule, that's cool too. But we all know that ASICMiner is preying on the people who are too stupid to do math.  Roll Eyes

The price doesn't come down without consumer's investment in purchasing product, by my calculations a distributed network adds value to my BTC, and I think a USB miner in the hands of every person invested in Bitcoin is much safer than all AM chips mining for shareholders.

So I am buying a couple to stimulate demand.  The way I see it: it is a hardware dongle that allows your BTC wallet (be your own bank) to accumulate interest by providing transaction services to the network). The distributed network being a foundation design element in the Bitcoin Idea.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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tvbcof
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May 09, 2013, 05:42:58 PM
 #382

If you want it for your time capsule, that's cool too. But we all know that ASICMiner is preying on the people who are too stupid to do math.  Roll Eyes

The price doesn't come down without consumer's investment in purchasing product, by my calculations a distributed network adds value to my BTC, and I think a USB miner in the hands of every person invested in Bitcoin is much safer than all AM chips mining for shareholders.

So I am buying a couple to stimulate demand.  The way I see it: it is a hardware dongle that allows your BTC wallet (be your own bank) to accumulate interest by providing transaction services to the network). The distributed network being a foundation design element in the Bitcoin Idea.

I was buying BTC at the end of 2011 (in the $2-ish/BTC range) for the same reason (providing demand), or at least that was a legitimate part of what was driving my actions.  Almost everyone was saying it was stupid because they were

  1) incapable of visualizing anything but the money aspect of things

  2) following the herd mentality which was that Bitcoin was dead.

I see devices such as Block Erupter as being a hugely positive thing for the health of the distributed crypto-currency world in both obvious and more difficult to explain ways.

If there is a demonstrated demand for such devices at 'rip-off' prices, that will encourage more development along these lines and we'll be seeing genuine commodity pricing that much sooner.


shapemaker
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May 09, 2013, 05:45:24 PM
 #383

The price doesn't come down without consumer's investment in purchasing product, by my calculations a distributed network adds value to my BTC, and I think a USB miner in the hands of every person invested in Bitcoin is much safer than all AM chips mining for shareholders

If you keep buying the USB miners at that ridiculous price, they have no incentive to lower the price. The only thing this USB miner will do for Bitcoin is to add more of them to ASICMINER's coffers.

See, ASICMINER can't deploy too much extra hashpower yet until Avalon/BFL ship more of their units since they'd be nearing hashrates with which they could conceivably execute double spends. Even the threat of that possibility should be enough to deter them since that would most likely erode confidence in BTC.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
davecoin
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May 09, 2013, 05:57:26 PM
 #384

The price doesn't come down without consumer's investment in purchasing product, by my calculations a distributed network adds value to my BTC, and I think a USB miner in the hands of every person invested in Bitcoin is much safer than all AM chips mining for shareholders

If you keep buying the USB miners at that ridiculous price, they have no incentive to lower the price. The only thing this USB miner will do for Bitcoin is to add more of them to ASICMINER's coffers.

See, ASICMINER can't deploy too much extra hashpower yet until Avalon/BFL ship more of their units since they'd be nearing hashrates with which they could conceivably execute double spends. Even the threat of that possibility should be enough to deter them since that would most likely erode confidence in BTC.

You can watch deployment here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkPdXsQFT-vIdHRVUjQ5Ql9BQWR6OENLMkhyUktUblE#gid=14
shapemaker
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May 09, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
 #385

If there is a demonstrated demand for such devices at 'rip-off' prices, that will encourage more development along these lines and we'll be seeing genuine commodity pricing that much sooner.

I think these current USB devices are just a curiosity at this price point. Sending the signal that people will buy anything and everything at hugely inflated prices will do much harm in the long run. There's absolutely no need to enrich ASICMINER and contribute to the centralisation of the network(*) at the current time any more than it's happening already. Come autumn when Avalon's chips built into DIY and small-time projects are hashing all over the world, then the situation is different. But at the moment... nah.

-----------
(*) I realise the USB gadgets will of course be hashing all over the world, but the BTC spent on them will give ASICMINER an even bigger ability to centralise more. The actual hashing output of the devices will be minuscule in the grand scheme of things.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
Adrian-x
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May 09, 2013, 06:02:11 PM
 #386

The price doesn't come down without consumer's investment in purchasing product, by my calculations a distributed network adds value to my BTC, and I think a USB miner in the hands of every person invested in Bitcoin is much safer than all AM chips mining for shareholders

If you keep buying the USB miners at that ridiculous price, they have no incentive to lower the price. The only thing this USB miner will do for Bitcoin is to add more of them to ASICMINER's coffers.

See, ASICMINER can't deploy too much extra hashpower yet until Avalon/BFL ship more of their units since they'd be nearing hashrates with which they could conceivably execute double spends. Even the threat of that possibility should be enough to deter them since that would most likely erode confidence in BTC.

Totally agree, but being involved in R&D and product development, I know how much effort goes into shipping the first production batch.

Given I don't think USB miners are going to be competitive in the long run, I would like to see all bugs ironed out now so with dwindling demand it will still be cost effective to produce the product at a lower price as opposed to pulling the product before it is fully developed because of lack of demand.

However your scenario is likely should the demand stay high without competition.  

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
shapemaker
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May 09, 2013, 06:04:19 PM
 #387


This just proves my point that they're becoming too large too soon. This should be a wake-up call to everyone.

I don't mean to say that they would do something so stupid as try double-spending anything. The point is, they will have the ability, and that alone could cause a lot of problems if people start to question the viability of BTC.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
shapemaker
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May 09, 2013, 06:14:44 PM
 #388

Totally agree, but being involved in R&D and product development, I know how much effort goes into shipping the first production batch.

Given I don't think USB miners are going to be competitive in the long run, I would like to see all bugs ironed out now so with dwindling demand it will still be cost effective to produce the product at a lower price as opposed to pulling the product before it is fully developed because of lack of demand.

However your scenario is likely should the demand stay high without competition.

I know, and I believe companies should be rewarded for putting in R&D for new products. HOWEVER, their R&D costs most likely have already been recouped many times over from the larger hashing units. Seeing as how the USB gadget is quite simple a device to make if you already have a working ASIC with working firmware, the actual R&D expenses of pulling that miner off won't be very large. And hence I firmly believe these USB miners are just a money grab at the current price.

Put simply, I don't support unbounded greed. As soon as people do the ROI calculations of these devices, their unviability should be apparent.

Shut up and give me money: 115UAYWLPTcRQ2hrT7VNo84SSFE5nT5ozo
tvbcof
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May 09, 2013, 06:17:29 PM
 #389

If there is a demonstrated demand for such devices at 'rip-off' prices, that will encourage more development along these lines and we'll be seeing genuine commodity pricing that much sooner.

I think these current USB devices are just a curiosity at this price point. Sending the signal that people will buy anything and everything at hugely inflated prices will do much harm in the long run. There's absolutely no need to enrich ASICMINER and contribute to the centralisation of the network(*) at the current time any more than it's happening already. Come autumn when Avalon's chips built into DIY and small-time projects are hashing all over the world, then the situation is different. But at the moment... nah.

-----------
(*) I realise the USB gadgets will of course be hashing all over the world, but the BTC spent on them will give ASICMINER an even bigger ability to centralise more. The actual hashing output of the devices will be minuscule in the grand scheme of things.

I've got nothing against ASICMINER becoming stupidly rich.  They were the first to get ASIC hashing as best I can tell, and I'm happy if they enjoy the fruits of their labors.  Them doing very well will just provide that much more incentive for competitors to get in and get a piece of the pie.

I'm surprised that they are selling these things or any hashing power at all to be honest.  It undercuts their own strategy.  I guess they are either seeing the end of their strategy or simply see distributing hashing power as a way to fuck their competition and increase the resiliency (and shape the trajectory) of the crypto-currency ecosystem.  Whatever the case, I see it as a big positive and am happy to support it.

I expect that the current 1st generation ASIC are probably very inefficient internally.  Just quick and dirty hacks to get something out the door.  As the chip logic develops, I'm happy if some of the designers are looking to target the market for small distributed devices.  That is just my wild guesses on things though since I have no first-hand experience here.


TiuraZ
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May 09, 2013, 07:18:02 PM
 #390

Quote
Seeing as how the USB gadget is quite simple a device to make if you already have a working ASIC with working firmware, the actual R&D expenses of pulling that miner off won't be very large.

IIRC the USB miner was developed before the Blades to test the chip itself.
Maciek
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May 09, 2013, 07:59:41 PM
 #391

Is it possible to order those ASIC USB miners at 2BTC each?
Where?

Cheers Smiley

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tvbcof
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May 09, 2013, 08:09:35 PM
 #392

Is it possible to order those ASIC USB miners at 2BTC each?
Where?

Cheers Smiley

There is at least one group buy in the US and one in the EU.  I'm a participant in the one in the US.  There is a very active thread about it on this same forum (Custom hardware) and it has a link to the EU one so you should see it near the top.

The price is 2.1013 BTC currently due to extra shipping and escrow fees.  Good luck!


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May 09, 2013, 11:39:31 PM
 #393

will it support any other software apart from cgminer ?
augustocroppo
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May 10, 2013, 01:14:11 AM
 #394

Is it possible to order those ASIC USB miners at 2BTC each?
Where?

Cheers Smiley

Are you in Europe?

2.09 BTC + parcel @ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195540.msg2032724#msg2032724
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May 10, 2013, 03:24:31 PM
 #395

I haven't read the 21 pages of comments on this, so I may be repeating what others have said.

At 4btc a pop for 600mh, it's about the same price as a 7970.  With a fraction of the power usage.  However, not massively resellable like a 7970 is.  

I think it's overpriced, but in reality it's probably reasonably priced.. especially if you have a rig of 7970s that you can resell and switch to these and cut your power usage down significantly.  The question is do you want to risk being "stuck" with these if/when difficulty jumps through the roof, or GPUs that you can then redeem for cash.  And considering these will continue to be profitable long after GPUs are not, except for those will free or really really low electricity prices.

M

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May 10, 2013, 03:27:58 PM
 #396

I haven't read the 21 pages of comments on this, so I may be repeating what others have said.

At 2btc a pop for 600mh, it's about the same price as a 7970.  With a fraction of the power usage.  However, not massively resellable like a 7970 is. 

I think it's overpriced, but in reality it's probably reasonably priced.. especially if you have a rig of 7970s that you can resell and switch to these and cut your power usage down significantly.  The question is do you want to risk being "stuck" with these if/when difficulty jumps through the roof, or GPUs that you can then redeem for cash.  And considering these will continue to be profitable long after GPUs are not, except for those will free or really really low electricity prices.

M

it's 1.99 for 300mhash...
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May 10, 2013, 03:31:21 PM
 #397

will it support any other software apart from cgminer ?
Im actually interested in this too. Will it work with guiminer?

BTC: 1VenusEubcLC9W7ykckHbdEzo5MVhPmCb - NXT: 15182624396855992605
DOGE: DFSd16bvB7H2HieZNAjPhBoCwZpmNujN9B - BTQ: 14b2QFPwFtBC3tcRW9F61aaRXP2ns3fh1m
arklan
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May 10, 2013, 03:32:24 PM
 #398

will it support any other software apart from cgminer ?
Im actually interested in this too. Will it work with guiminer?

VERY good question. i've never bothered to set up cgminer. ...good a time as any i suppose?
mdude77
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May 10, 2013, 03:32:49 PM
 #399

I haven't read the 21 pages of comments on this, so I may be repeating what others have said.

At 2btc a pop for 600mh, it's about the same price as a 7970.  With a fraction of the power usage.  However, not massively resellable like a 7970 is. 

I think it's overpriced, but in reality it's probably reasonably priced.. especially if you have a rig of 7970s that you can resell and switch to these and cut your power usage down significantly.  The question is do you want to risk being "stuck" with these if/when difficulty jumps through the roof, or GPUs that you can then redeem for cash.  And considering these will continue to be profitable long after GPUs are not, except for those will free or really really low electricity prices.

M

it's 1.99 for 300mhash...

yeah, typo.  fixed.

M

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May 10, 2013, 03:38:55 PM
 #400

will it support any other software apart from cgminer ?
Im actually interested in this too. Will it work with guiminer?

VERY good question. i've never bothered to set up cgminer. ...good a time as any i suppose?
Yes, i have tried.. Setup is a long process and i did everything correctly, it still wouldnt build. Gonna fresh format windows 7 then try again.
 : (

BTC: 1VenusEubcLC9W7ykckHbdEzo5MVhPmCb - NXT: 15182624396855992605
DOGE: DFSd16bvB7H2HieZNAjPhBoCwZpmNujN9B - BTQ: 14b2QFPwFtBC3tcRW9F61aaRXP2ns3fh1m
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