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Author Topic: [Announcement] Block Erupter USB  (Read 237802 times)
markyminer
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June 18, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
 #981

BFL - 65 nm. KNC, 28 nm. Conclusion--exactly the opposite of yours here.
I still highly doubt they can have access to the 28 nm factories. It's still cutting-edge technology used mostly by big players with a lot of hard issues to solve.

Yes but BFL was initially slated to use 5 x less power than they do now they are shipping. They advertised and took large pre orders based on 1w a G/H.  They are shipping at 5w G/H or slightly less for the bigger rigs.
I was not aware of that. It's very interesting if you consider the very long-term usage of ASICs: even them could become unprofitable to run given power costs!

Yep, currently BFL has the lowest working power product so will be the last man standing profitability wise until someone produces am ASIC that uses less power than 5w per G/H. Hence why I have a 2 month old pre order with them based on their Youtube prototype video 20/4/13.

M

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mem
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June 18, 2013, 03:55:59 PM
 #982

I ask you again to tell me how many BFL devices have been shipped.

LukeJr has 1, so..... 1 ? Tongue

alibert
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June 18, 2013, 04:23:22 PM
 #983

I ask you again to tell me how many BFL devices have been shipped.

LukeJr has 1, so..... 1 ? Tongue

1 on Ebay, so 2 Smiley

Bonam
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June 18, 2013, 04:58:48 PM
 #984

Quote
1 on Ebay, so 2 Smiley

I realize trashing on BFL is the trendy thing to do on this forum, but I think the best estimate is that they've shipped all Jalapeno orders through the end of August 2012. Assuming that order numbers are consecutive, that would suggest that the list at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ represents about 10% of all orders (not surprising since just people that happen to find that site and decide to enter their order are listed there). A quick glance through the list shows about 400ish Jalapenos delivered so far. If the orders not listed on that site have about the same distribution of hardware types as the ones that are listed (not an unreasonable assumption), that would imply that about 4,000 Jalapenos totalling about 20 TH have been delivered so far...
alibert
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June 18, 2013, 05:34:54 PM
 #985

Quote
1 on Ebay, so 2 Smiley

I realize trashing on BFL is the trendy thing to do on this forum, but I think the best estimate is that they've shipped all Jalapeno orders through the end of August 2012. Assuming that order numbers are consecutive, that would suggest that the list at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ represents about 10% of all orders (not surprising since just people that happen to find that site and decide to enter their order are listed there). A quick glance through the list shows about 400ish Jalapenos delivered so far. If the orders not listed on that site have about the same distribution of hardware types as the ones that are listed (not an unreasonable assumption), that would imply that about 4,000 Jalapenos totalling about 20 TH have been delivered so far...

Thanks! Finally some numbers. I count 308 delivered Jalapenos using grep "Delivered" index.html -B6 | grep label | grep -v success | cut -d">" -f3 | cut -d"<" -f1 | awk '{s+=$1} END {print s}'

markyminer
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June 18, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
 #986

Quote
1 on Ebay, so 2 Smiley

I realize trashing on BFL is the trendy thing to do on this forum, but I think the best estimate is that they've shipped all Jalapeno orders through the end of August 2012. Assuming that order numbers are consecutive, that would suggest that the list at http://bfl.ptz.ro/ represents about 10% of all orders (not surprising since just people that happen to find that site and decide to enter their order are listed there). A quick glance through the list shows about 400ish Jalapenos delivered so far. If the orders not listed on that site have about the same distribution of hardware types as the ones that are listed (not an unreasonable assumption), that would imply that about 4,000 Jalapenos totalling about 20 TH have been delivered so far...

Thanks! Finally some numbers. I count 308 delivered Jalapenos using grep "Delivered" index.html -B6 | grep label | grep -v success | cut -d">" -f3 | cut -d"<" -f1 | awk '{s+=$1} END {print s}'

My best estimate was around 350 jally's, some dev units and some singles. Maybe around 2000 g/h worth so far. But they seem to be catching up fast.

M

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alibert
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June 18, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
 #987

Well, around 70,000 GH came online during the last 4-5 weeks. I guess some ASIC manufacturer turned up his machines. ASICMINER sold 10,000 (?) USB miners, which sum up only 3 TH, so eigther they keep a lot for themself or we have a hidden player.

erk
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June 18, 2013, 10:41:21 PM
 #988

Well, around 70,000 GH came online during the last 4-5 weeks. I guess some ASIC manufacturer turned up his machines. ASICMINER sold 10,000 (?) USB miners, which sum up only 3 TH, so eigther they keep a lot for themself or we have a hidden player.
What's batch 1 and 2 Avalons add up to? 66Gh/s x 900
alibert
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June 19, 2013, 05:58:44 AM
 #989

Possible, but we can never know

Serjah
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June 19, 2013, 05:04:45 PM
 #990

could someone tell me where to get these USB

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June 19, 2013, 05:16:42 PM
 #991

could someone tell me where to get these USB

you can buy them from me.... see my signature
FiatKiller
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June 19, 2013, 06:19:49 PM
 #992

Got an interesting tidbit... the plastic cases they come in are great for one ounce bullion bars...  ;-)

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alibert
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June 21, 2013, 02:48:30 PM
 #993

I guess its Avalon, not BFL pushing the Hashrate, see: http://imgur.com/a/fqpME

atariguy
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June 21, 2013, 07:57:39 PM
 #994

could someone tell me where to get these USB

you can buy them from me.... see my signature

So when will they come down to a reasonable price? It's ridiculous how over-priced they are. They will probably never pay for themselves.

If I were to buy one, I'd want it to pay for itself within 2 months. That means my ideal price is currently $50. Let me know when it drops down to that.
AnonBitcoinBuyer
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June 21, 2013, 08:05:31 PM
 #995

So when will they come down to a reasonable price? It's ridiculous how over-priced they are. They will probably never pay for themselves.

If I were to buy one, I'd want it to pay for itself within 2 months. That means my ideal price is currently $50. Let me know when it drops down to that.

I think the days of instant ROI are over.  Even folks getting BFL devices have to factor in the year-long wait before they started to make their money back.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Block Erupters are overpriced at 1.99BTC as well, but I bought one just for kicks.  Anything else I get will have to be cheaper.
SilentSonicBoom
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June 21, 2013, 08:37:12 PM
 #996

could someone tell me where to get these USB
I have an auction for 3 USB Miners at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240029.0

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June 21, 2013, 09:11:12 PM
 #997

So when will they come down to a reasonable price? It's ridiculous how over-priced they are. They will probably never pay for themselves.

If I were to buy one, I'd want it to pay for itself within 2 months. That means my ideal price is currently $50. Let me know when it drops down to that.

I think the days of instant ROI are over.  Even folks getting BFL devices have to factor in the year-long wait before they started to make their money back.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Block Erupters are overpriced at 1.99BTC as well, but I bought one just for kicks.  Anything else I get will have to be cheaper.

If it's not going to pay for itself in a few months, it will probably never pay for itself.
AnonBitcoinBuyer
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June 21, 2013, 09:18:50 PM
 #998

So when will they come down to a reasonable price? It's ridiculous how over-priced they are. They will probably never pay for themselves.

If I were to buy one, I'd want it to pay for itself within 2 months. That means my ideal price is currently $50. Let me know when it drops down to that.

I think the days of instant ROI are over.  Even folks getting BFL devices have to factor in the year-long wait before they started to make their money back.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Block Erupters are overpriced at 1.99BTC as well, but I bought one just for kicks.  Anything else I get will have to be cheaper.

If it's not going to pay for itself in a few months, it will probably never pay for itself.

Assuming immediate delivery, you're probably right.  Block Erupters are still selling as fast as friedcat can make them, which is really our own fault for buying them.

There are a ton of devices promising almost-instant ROI out there, they're just not readily available yet.  If they were, the secondary market would price them way higher, pushing the break-even point way out.  See: auctions for Avalon/Jalapeno/etc.
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June 22, 2013, 11:18:07 PM
 #999

BFL - 65 nm. KNC, 28 nm. Conclusion--exactly the opposite of yours here.
I still highly doubt they can have access to the 28 nm factories. It's still cutting-edge technology used mostly by big players with a lot of hard issues to solve.
It's been in use since 2011. And you doubt that Orsoc has access to them? An ASIC/FPGA design-house with over a decade of experience and 10+ employees, most of whom are chip designers?

Yes but BFL was initially slated to use 5 x less power than they do now they are shipping. They advertised and took large pre orders based on 1w a G/H.  They are shipping at 5w G/H or slightly less for the bigger rigs.
I was not aware of that. It's very interesting if you consider the very long-term usage of ASICs: even them could become unprofitable to run given power costs!
BLF outsourced their chip design to who knows who and ran into problems. Because you simply can't simulate a working ASIC design on an FPGA and copy it directly into a chip. You have to know the little tricks of the trade of turning an FPGA design simulation into a functioning ASIC. If anyone should know how to do this, it would be a long-standing design-house like Orsoc.

It's not really surprising that BFL ran into problems, problems that it seems Avalon narrowly avoided and fore-saw, but it would be surprising if Orsoc runs into this problem, considering that they've been producing ASICs for years and claim that a hashing chip isn't even close to the most complex design they've completed successfully.

I think too many of people's expectations have been colored by the difficulties of BFL and the like. These guys are pros.

Anyway I'll stop here as this is off-topic.

Democracy is the original 51% attack.
erk
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June 22, 2013, 11:21:43 PM
 #1000


BLF outsourced their chip design to who knows who and ran into problems. Because you simply can't simulate a working ASIC design on an FPGA and copy it directly into a chip. You have to know the little tricks of the trade of turning an FPGA design simulation into a functioning ASIC. If anyone should know how to do this, it would be a long-standing design-house like Orsoc.

It's not really surprising that BFL ran into problems, problems that it seems Avalon narrowly avoided and fore-saw, but it would be surprising if Orsoc runs into this problem, considering that they've been producing ASICs for years and claim that a hashing chip isn't even close to the most complex design they've completed successfully.

I think too many of people's expectations have been colored by the difficulties of BFL and the like. These guys are pros.

Anyway I'll stop here as this is off-topic.
Where did you get your magical insight into BFL's problems? As far as I can tell they have only mentioned that the power consumption was far greater than anticipated, and they have not given out a reason for that yet.

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