(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[flyboy]

I will keep watching the bot.

Do I have to keep crome open for it to run or just the computer on?

At a loss of 8.8% per trade, I will just let it ride and see what happens. Thanks for the free demo.

I would much rather a bot that does what you said. Buys at a set decrease and sells at a set increase.

[fible1]

I will keep watching the bot.

Do I have to keep crome open for it to run or just the computer on?

At a loss of 8.8% per trade, I will just let it ride and see what happens. Thanks for the free demo.

I would much rather a bot that does what you said. Buys at a set decrease and sells at a set increase.

Hey ,
  Yes, for now you need to keep Chrome open for the bot to work; we are working on a full hosting solution that should be available in a few weeks.

I would suggest that you trade with a small amount of money, if you are not in it for the long haul you really should avoid trading; you will very likely see losses.

That said, thank you for giving our bot a try, please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[kweks]

Hi there.
Grabbed a copy of the bot over the weekend.

After seeing in the backtesting that it would have made trades that it didn't, I had some questions:

1. Do the accounts (MtGox, etc) initially need to have funds in USD, or BTC, or both (or either?) - Currently I have my funds in BTC
2. Is it possible to trade with multiple exchanges, and if so: how do I set the parameters for each specific exchange?

Thanks kindly.

[vesperwillow]

So far I'm going to so no to butterbot

Started it on Friday with default settings for gox

Started with 7.9 @ 195ish

First sale 188$ the lowest point this weekend.

First buy 205$ very close to the high for the weekend.

I went from 7.9 to 7.2 in two days.

At this rate I will be broke in a month.

I'm a recent investor in the bot, let me share my situation which is similar to yours. I tried it out a few times and was like, what the hell I'm losing BTC, but I had to remind myself it's EMA, it's long term--it's not simply "buy low sell high" (even though that's the general premise).

Basically, short term typically won't result in profits, so trying it out for a few days you won't see a profit (unless you happen to start the bot when the price is high and suddenly drops, which is rare). If you could try it out for, say 2 or 3 weeks, you would see the benefit. The tryout period is more to show how it works and that it would eventually work if you hit one of those magical trade points.

I have had about 3 weeks of trades (a few trades, not many) where most were losses by a single percentage, however, recently when there was a landslide drop in price the bot grabbed some more BTC. I knew the price would then go up and eventually sell high, it was a matter of waiting out and let the bot do its job. I funded my trade accounts with an extra BTC just to make sure to maximize my profit.

Sure enough eventually it grew and again dropped like 20-30$, and the bot sold.

The bot was holding some btc at $115 and some at $120, the peak value was $224/205 (mtgox/btce), and with my settings it sold at $208/190. Instantly made some USD which went back into those trade accounts.

About a day or 2 later the bot picked up on the next EMA rise in price and bought BTC for $190/178, and the price is slowly ticking upward again.

So I made BTC. Not a lot, but it's already paid for itself, so from here on out unless there's an epic failure of BTC, I'm going to be gaining BTC.

You have to wait it out, it's not a magical coin fountain, and you need to find what settings work for you. Mine are not the default settings, but even the default settings work well.

Here's a link to a read which might be helpful, the OP was exploring some settings similar to what I was. Mine aren't exactly what he has but they're close enough, and I find the settings work well for my "tastes": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=290961.0

Some folks don't like waiting things out and get too edgy, so it may not be a game for them to play; what I tell people is to simply setup the bot and forget about it. Check on it every  now and then to make sure it hasn't crashed, but don't worry yourself with if it's going to work. The defaults alone will work.

As to funding, I would recommend having at least half a BTC (or cash equivalent) per trade account to really see the system work. I started out with .2BTC but it was only profiting by fractions. So to visually realize the gains, .5 is a minimum, I would really say 1BTC to get the feel for it.

Good luck to us all, cheers.

[bassclef]

Can u make a bot that starts at say X and if the value drops 2$ you buy and if it increases 4$ you sell?

Hi flyboy. That sounds good in theory, but we can't always pick the direction the market will go in. For example, if you sold after a $5 price increase, sure you lock in a small profit, but what if the price kept going up? What if it was a huge movement, like a $15 increase? What if a new bubble forms? You wouldn't want to be left behind.

In the same way going down, how do we call the bottom? What if it drops $5 quickly, you buy, and then moves back upwards even higher (called a bear trap) and leaves you on the wrong side of the trade? Now you must either buy in at a higher price, or hold the cash, hoping it eventually goes back down.

The bot watches 24/7 and attempts to mathematically put us at an advantage to profit long-term using exponential moving averages. When the market ranges between values, say $170 and $175, most trades won't be profitable and it's frustrating to watch. But when the price makes a move and begins to move strongly upwards or down, the bot ensures we are on the correct side of the trade to profit from the trend.

For example, my bot bought in correctly yesterday and rode the $10 price rise. The three trades before, however, were a small loss. The hope is that gains on the larger trends will make up for the smaller losses.

[fible1]

Hi there.
Grabbed a copy of the bot over the weekend.

After seeing in the backtesting that it would have made trades that it didn't, I had some questions:

1. Do the accounts (MtGox, etc) initially need to have funds in USD, or BTC, or both (or either?) - Currently I have my funds in BTC
2. Is it possible to trade with multiple exchanges, and if so: how do I set the parameters for each specific exchange?

Thanks kindly.

Hi Kweks ,

   1. You can start with Fiat or BTC or both, it doesn't make a difference.

   2. Yes, you can trade on one exchange, or on all 3. For the time being we only have global settings, but the next release should allow you to set each exchange individually.

 Please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[kweks]

Hi Pablo.
Thanks kindly!

[Soju Boy]

Hi Pablo, has there been any talk about making a trade log ala backtesting format for real performance review? My bitstamp transaction history is a mess and I'd have to break out a calculator and an afternoon just to make sense of it all.

[NginUS]

Hi Pablo, has there been any talk about making a trade log ala backtesting format for real performance review? My bitstamp transaction history is a mess and I'd have to break out a calculator and an afternoon just to make sense of it all.

IMO a method of tracking profits & losses is sorely needed. I recently had to give up on using MY-BTC.info to track mine because the manual entry of all the little buy/sell orders every time the bot triggered was just too much to bear. And now I have no tracking method at all, which is very unfortunate.

I just wanted to chime in & mention that I would like to see the developers spend time on this.

[fible1]

Hi Pablo, has there been any talk about making a trade log ala backtesting format for real performance review? My bitstamp transaction history is a mess and I'd have to break out a calculator and an afternoon just to make sense of it all.

IMO a method of tracking profits & losses is sorely needed. I recently had to give up on using MY-BTC.info to track mine because the manual entry of all the little buy/sell orders every time the bot triggered was just too much to bear. And now I have no tracking method at all, which is very unfortunate.

I just wanted to chime in & mention that I would like to see the developers spend time on this.

Hey Guys ,
   This strikes me as a reasonable request and I think it's worth implementing. However, right now we are devoting all our resources on hosting and after that we will release altcoins. We literally do not have a single free development hour and we want to focus on getting the big tools (like altcoins and hosting) out right now, after that we should have time to focus on this.

We are working on several projects right now, some of which are not yet public, which are taxing our developers to the limit, but we think that when these come to fruition everyone will find them useful and profitable. Please give us some slack on this issue, we think it is an idea worth looking into, but just now we just don't have the resources. We take this request seriously and I will make sure that as soon as we have some free development time this is properly looked into.

Please let me know if you need anything at all.

Pablo.

[vesperwillow]

Hi Pablo, has there been any talk about making a trade log ala backtesting format for real performance review? My bitstamp transaction history is a mess and I'd have to break out a calculator and an afternoon just to make sense of it all.

IMO a method of tracking profits & losses is sorely needed. I recently had to give up on using MY-BTC.info to track mine because the manual entry of all the little buy/sell orders every time the bot triggered was just too much to bear. And now I have no tracking method at all, which is very unfortunate.

I just wanted to chime in & mention that I would like to see the developers spend time on this.

I've suggested this a short while ago and he put it on the list. I'm looking forward to it myself.

Ever considered simply copying/pasting the columns of trade history into excel??

[fible1]

Friends,
   We have just released a patched version of Butter-Bot to deal with an issue that could affect Reserve Trading on Mt. Gox. Only one instance of this issue has been reported because it only happens under very specific circumstances, nonetheless, this release fully solves the problem.

If you do not already have it in your inbox, please drop me an email.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[seanrarey]

i was just wondering, how did the bot go doing the "booom" when bitcoin went from 130 to 220?

It made me tremendous return! 

[NginUS]

i was just wondering, how did the bot go doing the "booom" when bitcoin went from 130 to 220?

In my case it sat there & did nothing mostly. At one point, however it sold low & bought high- losing a few 1/10 BTC. :-( 

My first experience with the bot's first trades. Now I'm afraid to deposit more money for it to work with. Maybe if this rally ever ends.

[seanrarey]

So far I'm going to so no to butterbot

Started it on Friday with default settings for gox

Started with 7.9 @ 195ish

First sale 188$ the lowest point this weekend.

First buy 205$ very close to the high for the weekend.

I went from 7.9 to 7.2 in two days.

At this rate I will be broke in a month.

It has been said many times Flyboy, but will repeat it.  Use the demo to get a feel for what it looks and feels like, not for actual trading.  Chances are you will lose money.  It is a real trade engine, based on real a (old school in fact) strategy, it is not magic.

Looking for a testimonial?  Here is my experience.

Butter "paid for itself" within days of purchasing it.  It has since averaged 20% return each month.

Flyboy, I am going to repeat that.

20%/mo.

Yep, 20%

That is 240% APR.

During the time I have used butter it has made _scores_ of losing trades... um, because that is the very nature of trading.

Oh, did I mention 20% A MONTH RETURN!?  I am walking around with a perma-grin!  I made over $700 last month just off the mortgage payment I parked in BTC for 3 weeks until it was due (not that I recommend that).

Bottom line, wrong forum if you are suggesting the bot does not work; because it does.

[seanrarey]

Can u make a bot that starts at say X and if the value drops 2$ you buy and if it increases 4$ you sell?

Flyboy, that is RSI, and here is a bot that does that:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211979.0

Buy them both.  Run them side-by-side.  I am, and have for months.

Because of the large trending movement BTC is experiencing, EMA is killing RSI in returns; and Butter is the better EMA bot (STB does EMA as well, but not as well as Butter).

I actually to encourage you to buy both tho, and test it for yourself.  I am all about supporting those that write code and are gratuitous enough share it with the rest of us.

[seanrarey]

It doesn't make since to have a bot that buys or sells at a loss. It's math. If the bot sold at 188 it should know not to buy back at 205...

You are right, it is math.  You are wrong about it not making sense.  I suggest you seek out and study common trading strategy.  Start with EMA, MACD, and RSI.  There are thousands of books written on it.

Or an alternative, is to just let it work for you... it will work even if you choose not to understand it.

[seanrarey]

Hi Pablo, has there been any talk about making a trade log ala backtesting format for real performance review? My bitstamp transaction history is a mess and I'd have to break out a calculator and an afternoon just to make sense of it all.

IMO a method of tracking profits & losses is sorely needed. I recently had to give up on using MY-BTC.info to track mine because the manual entry of all the little buy/sell orders every time the bot triggered was just too much to bear. And now I have no tracking method at all, which is very unfortunate.

I just wanted to chime in & mention that I would like to see the developers spend time on this.

+1, and eagerly awaited... along with the other hints at future features.  The bot and it's development is almost as much fun as the trading & profits. 

[PuertoLibre]

Can u make a bot that starts at say X and if the value drops 2$ you buy and if it increases 4$ you sell?

Hey ,
  Do you mean a bot that will buy if the price halves and sell if the price doubles?

There is a lot that can for wrong with that, we have been discussing reverse EMA for a while that does something similar (but better) with EMA indicators. Maybe something we can pursue when we get some free development time. Got a lot going on right now .

Pablo.

I use reverse EMA strategies and they are quite a bit more logical (from a human perspective I guess) in the profit area.

[PuertoLibre]

Can u make a bot that starts at say X and if the value drops 2$ you buy and if it increases 4$ you sell?

Hi flyboy. That sounds good in theory, but we can't always pick the direction the market will go in. For example, if you sold after a $5 price increase, sure you lock in a small profit, but what if the price kept going up? What if it was a huge movement, like a $15 increase? What if a new bubble forms? You wouldn't want to be left behind.

That is a dangerous mindset for a trader. What if it goes higher...

I would advise people to have a realistic idea of what they want vs what they need.

Then hash out over what period of time you'll actually be content if you receive that BTC or USD.

-------------------------

If you have met your trading goal for the moment, then you should cut it off and reel in your profits..rather than wait for a riskier "what if" scenario where it doubles your profits.

People who wait to see if it will go higher usually lose a ton. Take what you can get and you'll cut out a ton of those risky "wait-and-see losses" from your future.

Someone asked earlier in the thread that the price was 220+ and whether they should manually sell...Instead it looks like they let the bot sell them out at 170 or 180 instead by second guessing their own judgement about the situation.

I felt like asking that person why would you not call it, reel in a certain profit amount in the here-and-now rather than wait for a "maybe-profit" in the (unknown) future?

In the same way going down, how do we call the bottom? What if it drops $5 quickly, you buy, and then moves back upwards even higher (called a bear trap) and leaves you on the wrong side of the trade?

 If it drops 5$ and you buy in, why would you want to buy in again at an even higher price?

Now you must either buy in at a higher price, or hold the cash, hoping it eventually goes back down.

Not sure what this is about....

If you are after cash and not BTC then retaining value is what is important.

If you convert 10,000 USD in a buy in(of BTC) at 130$ and you sell it (BTC) off at 137$ (for USD)....while the market goes way up to 220$, you still have the same amount of USD cash.

Even if you buy BTC at 180 you still have the same value (10,000+ in USD). As long as the BTC valuation goes up you will always win extra USD as growth happens. You'd only lose if the BTC devalues against the dollar. (goes down in price)

At that point you'd be better off converting your BTC to USD before it get back to 180 or less. As it continues to go down (lets say into the 150$ territory it only gets cheaper to buy BTC.

As long as you protect your value in USD it would be pretty hard to lose in most circumstances.

The bot watches 24/7 and attempts to mathematically put us at an advantage to profit long-term using exponential moving averages. When the market ranges between values, say $170 and $175, most trades won't be profitable and it's frustrating to watch. But when the price makes a move and begins to move strongly upwards or down, the bot ensures we are on the correct side of the trade to profit from the trend.

For example, my bot bought in correctly yesterday and rode the $10 price rise. The three trades before, however, were a small loss. The hope is that gains on the larger trends will make up for the smaller losses.

This bot (nor is EMA) good for largely unchanging exchanges with high fees.