(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[tolega]

Is anyone using settings that get greater than 16,000% when backtesting on BTC-e for 1 year, who would care to share such settings?

16,665% is the best I've been able to come up with thus far after running the bot for 3 months, and I'm just wondering what other high-yield settings might exist to beat this little record of mine here.

Once I saw someone in the thread talk about how they were getting 18,000% somehow, but they didn't share what settings were able to pull that off.

Thank you in advance.

Playing now I got this:
1 year BTC-E - Profit: 18447.31% - Max. Profit: 21233.24% Trades: 85

Please do share what settings yield such profits!

It is fun to share the highest profit found on the engine so we can see how we can still improve but to give out the numbers is where our interests may conflict.

Playing around with random numbers is the way I found what I found.

[mboehler]

Also keep in mind that the settings that gave huge profits in the past may not work well in the future...

[tolega]

Also keep in mind that the settings that gave huge profits in the past may not work well in the future...

That is what I see. The setting that yield a very high % over one year are only half as profitable as other settings when running the engine only the last one or two of months.

This is where I don't know what to do.

[NginUS]

Thank you for inspiring me to tinker with the bot. I found some settings that get a max profit of over 21,000% now. A new record for me.

[tolega]

Thank you for inspiring me to tinker with the bot. I found some settings that get a max profit of over 21,000% now. A new record for me.

After finding such high yield try doing  3 months back engine only and compare to "known" settings.

Now put those settings on bitcoinwisdom graphs and see if those long term high yielding setting are actually valid or is there another reason for such high returns?

I have noticed the settings I found to be +19K% would have bought at higher prices and sold at lower prices than another setting I use. But if I had gone on with the 1 year engine, it would have led me to believe that  settings I would have actually made more profit in the last few months are actually less than half as profitable than the one yielding much lower returns in the last few months.
Did that make sense?

[mboehler]

Also keep in mind that the settings that gave huge profits in the past may not work well in the future...

That is what I see. The setting that yield a very high % over one year are only half as profitable as other settings when running the engine only the last one or two of months.

This is where I don't know what to do.

I personally just found some settings that I like and stick with it.  I don't tinker with it.  It's mostly set-it and forget-it with me.  It may not make the absolute highest amount possible, but it makes more that by not using the bot at all.

All in all, I'm happy with it.

[AnhBen]

Butter Bot is designed for long term trading.

Any recommended bot for short term trading to capitalise on the price volatility?

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

This is something we will definitely be looking at for V4 when we develop alternative strategy modules for Butter; like someone already pointed out however, it requires a completely new trading engine and it is not a simple task to design the algorithm either. All in all however, it is quite a requested feature and something we will definitely delve into in the future.



Pablo.

This is the best of both worlds!

[cool007zqw]

Hi Fablo,

Is there terms of use for Butter Bot? Or any written agreement which calrify the duties of service provider?
Thank you!

[fible1]

Hi Fablo,

Is there terms of use for Butter Bot? Or any written agreement which calrify the duties of service provider?
Thank you!

Hi Cool ,
  Yes there are, when you sign up for the demo, or purchase Butter, they will be the first thing you see during setup.

I hope that helps, please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[chatnoir]

Thank you for inspiring me to tinker with the bot. I found some settings that get a max profit of over 21,000% now. A new record for me.

you could do worse than test your settings over at cryptotrder.org. they have a simple EMA bot and you can test your settings between two specific dates. test in a time frame that doesnt include one of last years huge spikes to get a more accurate idea of how your settings will perform.

[tolega]

It is not so simple as testing your settings on cryptotrader.org. The bot has an algorithm that from what I understand does not simply follow the EMA lines. From what my naive and uneducated mind has seen it does not simply buy or sell depending on EMA lines.

In the last 25 hours +- my bot sold at 698, bought in back at 727 and now it sold 705. The complete opposite would be expected.

I am using a one hour interval and did restart the computer yesterday and today once each day.

I may be completely wrong but I feel if I use one of those basic EMA bots available online I may get a better outcome in the short-term (3 months). I was doing a short term back engine and saw that the possibility and margins of return are much higher if one holds the coins, comes looks once a day and trade or hold depending on last 24 hours performance compared to Butterbot.

My bot seems to act from flipping a coin. I saw no correlation with data from bitcoinwisdom.

/rant


PS: no harm or aggressiveness intended towards anyone.

[Logikk]

Anyone else having issues with the graphs not being drawn? I get 'Invalid Symbol" when ever i load the plugin.

[vanski]

Anyone else having issues with the graphs not being drawn? I get 'Invalid Symbol" when ever i load the plugin.

I see "invalid symbol" only on btc-e; the others are fine

[americandesi]

I don't like the buy and sell thresholds. I guess because they don't make any sense. Why do you need a threshold and what is that really helping you do? If I just want to trade EMA lines crossing why can't I do that? I tried inputting those negative numbers and tried it on the back testing and I can't really see it performing like it should. My bot sold at $603 today at 1Hr intervals default settings. But if it would of sold as soon as it went negative it would of sold at $629. I guess I'm just dissapointed in this bot. It seems to make a lot of bad trades. Does anyone have good setting for this bot that give any better results? I wish I knew programming. It seems like you know what the bot should do but it just does whatever it wants and makes pretty bad moves. I thought I would give it another shot but its killing me.

I could be wrong here, but this is what I think is the problem. Even though the bot requires it be always connected, it doesn't take advantage of that itself. It doesn't monitor the market moves, it only checks them on the schedule you set. So if you have it set for a 1 Hour EMA, it is only checking in once an hour, even though the 1 Hour EMA actually crossed over 45 mins ago, the bot is only now checking and making the needed trade.

That is correct.  It only checks on the interval that you specify; that is what it is designed to do.

You don't want it checking all the time, or it would be trading all the time.  It costs a fee each time you make a trade.  And often, the ema's will cross over several times in a short period of "sideways" movement.  If you trade on all of them, you end up just giving all your money to the exchanges.

What this bot works well at, is longer intervals.  You want to trade less often, but make a bigger profit when you do trade.  It is a long-term trading bot, not a day trading bot.

EMA detects trends.  Upwards trends and downward trends.  And it only knows the trend is over AFTER the trend is over.  It will never identify the highest or lowest values while it is at that value.  It will only do it after that value has passed.  Obviously, there is no way to tell if you are at the highest or lowest point.  Will the price keep going up?  Will the price start dropping?  No one can tell you.

So, you set your bot for EMA's 10 and 21 (or whatever you want), set your interval for 1 hour (or higher), and watch it make a few trades per month.   You want to grab the few BIG trends.  Not the hundreds of smaller ups and down that just eat away at your profit.

Please, everyone, go read Goomboo's thread.  It is difficult at first if you are not used to market terms and theories (I was not), but it is definitely worth it if you want to try to use this bot.

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Let me give two examples, and please, anyone jump in an tell me where I got it wrong.

Example #1
Using Butter-Bot on BitStamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with no time offset (so it is checking at the top of the hour).
This example checks at the top of the hour, and does the calculations, if there has been a crossover, then it makes the needed trades.

Example #2
Watching BitWisdom on Bitstamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with live feed (so it is checking constantly).
This example uses the same settings as Example #1, but it just checks a whole lot more often, so it is much more accurate at spotting the actual crossover, when it happens. So you aren't missing it by 1-59 mins late.

Why does the frequency of data point updates have to be the same as the (2h, 1h, 30m, 15m) EMA time setting?

This is a valid point and a basic feature to have.

[fible1]

I don't like the buy and sell thresholds. I guess because they don't make any sense. Why do you need a threshold and what is that really helping you do? If I just want to trade EMA lines crossing why can't I do that? I tried inputting those negative numbers and tried it on the back testing and I can't really see it performing like it should. My bot sold at $603 today at 1Hr intervals default settings. But if it would of sold as soon as it went negative it would of sold at $629. I guess I'm just dissapointed in this bot. It seems to make a lot of bad trades. Does anyone have good setting for this bot that give any better results? I wish I knew programming. It seems like you know what the bot should do but it just does whatever it wants and makes pretty bad moves. I thought I would give it another shot but its killing me.

I could be wrong here, but this is what I think is the problem. Even though the bot requires it be always connected, it doesn't take advantage of that itself. It doesn't monitor the market moves, it only checks them on the schedule you set. So if you have it set for a 1 Hour EMA, it is only checking in once an hour, even though the 1 Hour EMA actually crossed over 45 mins ago, the bot is only now checking and making the needed trade.

That is correct.  It only checks on the interval that you specify; that is what it is designed to do.

You don't want it checking all the time, or it would be trading all the time.  It costs a fee each time you make a trade.  And often, the ema's will cross over several times in a short period of "sideways" movement.  If you trade on all of them, you end up just giving all your money to the exchanges.

What this bot works well at, is longer intervals.  You want to trade less often, but make a bigger profit when you do trade.  It is a long-term trading bot, not a day trading bot.

EMA detects trends.  Upwards trends and downward trends.  And it only knows the trend is over AFTER the trend is over.  It will never identify the highest or lowest values while it is at that value.  It will only do it after that value has passed.  Obviously, there is no way to tell if you are at the highest or lowest point.  Will the price keep going up?  Will the price start dropping?  No one can tell you.

So, you set your bot for EMA's 10 and 21 (or whatever you want), set your interval for 1 hour (or higher), and watch it make a few trades per month.   You want to grab the few BIG trends.  Not the hundreds of smaller ups and down that just eat away at your profit.

Please, everyone, go read Goomboo's thread.  It is difficult at first if you are not used to market terms and theories (I was not), but it is definitely worth it if you want to try to use this bot.

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Let me give two examples, and please, anyone jump in an tell me where I got it wrong.

Example #1
Using Butter-Bot on BitStamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with no time offset (so it is checking at the top of the hour).
This example checks at the top of the hour, and does the calculations, if there has been a crossover, then it makes the needed trades.

Example #2
Watching BitWisdom on Bitstamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with live feed (so it is checking constantly).
This example uses the same settings as Example #1, but it just checks a whole lot more often, so it is much more accurate at spotting the actual crossover, when it happens. So you aren't missing it by 1-59 mins late.

Why does the frequency of data point updates have to be the same as the (2h, 1h, 30m, 15m) EMA time setting?

This is a valid point and a basic feature to have.

Hi ,
  Yes, it also strikes me as an interesting feature, I have forwarded this to the developer for his input.

Pablo.

[fible1]

Anyone else having issues with the graphs not being drawn? I get 'Invalid Symbol" when ever i load the plugin.

I see "invalid symbol" only on btc-e; the others are fine

Hi ,
  This is an issue with our provider BitcoinCharts, we expected it to resolve itself over the last few days but it looks like BTC-E is still working on it. It in no way affects trading and we are looking (in a preliminary phase) at designing our own graphing solution to avlid these sorts of issues in the future.

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.

Please do not hesitate to check in on me in the meantime, I am here to help.

Pablo.

[NginUS]

Pablo,

I wish the devs could do something about the bot's tendency to sell low & buy back in higher than it sold. I'm losing $60 here & $100 there & it adds up such thaat the monthly deposits I make to try to increase the amount of money the bot has to work with are doing nothing more than making up for these small bad trades.

I understand it's necessary to let the bot do its thing. But it really gets me down.

I'd love to see it reduced somehow.

Thanks,
NginUS

[fible1]

Pablo,

I wish the devs could do something about the bot's tendency to sell low & buy back in higher than it sold. I'm losing $60 here & $100 there & it adds up such thaat the monthly deposits I make to try to increase the amount of money the bot has to work with are doing nothing more than making up for these small bad trades.

I understand it's necessary to let the bot do its thing. But it really gets me down.

I'd love to see it reduced somehow.

Thanks,
NginUS

Hi Ngin ,
  Yes, agreed. We should be adding some mitigation for this when we release the revamped trading engine next year; it's a long process but it should have good end results.

Please let me know how I can continue to help.

Pablo.

[NginUS]

Thanks

[uh60james]

Running the demo of Butter Bot and it seems to wait too long to trade.  20/42 EMA settings, trade frequency is at 30 minutes,  Buy 0 and 0.15, Sell 0 and 0.10.  20 crossed over 42 at about 707 but Butter Bot didn't make the purchase until 727.99.  By this point BTC is already starting to trend down.  Suggestions?