(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[mooncake]

Butter Bot is designed for long term trading.

Any recommended bot for short term trading to capitalise on the price volatility?

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

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[shapemaker]

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

That would require a completely different engine.

You'd need to take into account volatility, volume, trend, enter and exit positions, stop losses, spread, profit target, scalping... urgh, that would be a pain to set up and still probably would require constant attention. There is a reason the exchange HFT bot algorithms are highly guarded secrets and their inventors make millions in salaries.

[Naelr]

I just finished reading all of Goomboo's highlighted posts and have to say it was a worth it read coming from a similar opinion of many of the recent comments...

I sat here watching bitcoinwisdom going I should of sold there and bought there and next time around I will do that and get it right.. Uhh probably not..
I still want to go read more about cross overs and EMA, but from his results I think it may be on to something..

My bot also traded at the 610 but started the trade at 620 and I asked myself "wtf is it doing.. it could of sold at 680 this morning" honest why didnt it?
But Goomboo has a point where 7 out of 10 trades will be bad but the 3 that arent will be big ones (I hope). Look its back to 610 right now..

Now I know I am not making a good case for this system as I honestly dont believe it myself just yet.. but I think I need more than a week to figure it out.
So I guess I will buy a few months membership and give it a try.. I heard there was a referral program that give you an extra month?
Anyone care to share?

Quick Update: After reading Goomboo's posts I decided to change the short/long to 10/21 and the bot would of sold this morning before the drop if it was set to that..
Where as with the 20/42 it didnt.. May be worth thinking about..

You want a referral check out my signature, just click on the butter bot link when you want to buy and you and I will get a free month.

Naelr

[tralala33]

I'm using 20/42@15m at Bitstamp lately and it has performed very well during those post-rally conditions. I sometimes buy back some BTC gradually during hard crashes (having an option in the bot to do that would be awesome), so I almost doubled my BTC over the last two weeks or so.

It sold at 644 today btw.

Youve kept the bot on 24/7? and double your coins at 15min interval?

No, when buying back manually you have to disable the bot or it will sell all your coins on the next tick.

[mooncake]

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

That would require a completely different engine.

You'd need to take into account volatility, volume, trend, enter and exit positions, stop losses, spread, profit target, scalping... urgh, that would be a pain to set up and still probably would require constant attention. There is a reason the exchange HFT bot algorithms are highly guarded secrets and their inventors make millions in salaries.

It would be nice if we can have the best of both worlds - Butter Bot for long term trading and HFT bot for short term. Then regardless long or short term, the bots are always making us money!

[Jazkal]

I don't like the buy and sell thresholds. I guess because they don't make any sense. Why do you need a threshold and what is that really helping you do? If I just want to trade EMA lines crossing why can't I do that? I tried inputting those negative numbers and tried it on the back testing and I can't really see it performing like it should. My bot sold at $603 today at 1Hr intervals default settings. But if it would of sold as soon as it went negative it would of sold at $629. I guess I'm just dissapointed in this bot. It seems to make a lot of bad trades. Does anyone have good setting for this bot that give any better results? I wish I knew programming. It seems like you know what the bot should do but it just does whatever it wants and makes pretty bad moves. I thought I would give it another shot but its killing me.

I could be wrong here, but this is what I think is the problem. Even though the bot requires it be always connected, it doesn't take advantage of that itself. It doesn't monitor the market moves, it only checks them on the schedule you set. So if you have it set for a 1 Hour EMA, it is only checking in once an hour, even though the 1 Hour EMA actually crossed over 45 mins ago, the bot is only now checking and making the needed trade.

That is correct.  It only checks on the interval that you specify; that is what it is designed to do.

You don't want it checking all the time, or it would be trading all the time.  It costs a fee each time you make a trade.  And often, the ema's will cross over several times in a short period of "sideways" movement.  If you trade on all of them, you end up just giving all your money to the exchanges.

What this bot works well at, is longer intervals.  You want to trade less often, but make a bigger profit when you do trade.  It is a long-term trading bot, not a day trading bot.

EMA detects trends.  Upwards trends and downward trends.  And it only knows the trend is over AFTER the trend is over.  It will never identify the highest or lowest values while it is at that value.  It will only do it after that value has passed.  Obviously, there is no way to tell if you are at the highest or lowest point.  Will the price keep going up?  Will the price start dropping?  No one can tell you.

So, you set your bot for EMA's 10 and 21 (or whatever you want), set your interval for 1 hour (or higher), and watch it make a few trades per month.   You want to grab the few BIG trends.  Not the hundreds of smaller ups and down that just eat away at your profit.

Please, everyone, go read Goomboo's thread.  It is difficult at first if you are not used to market terms and theories (I was not), but it is definitely worth it if you want to try to use this bot.

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Let me give two examples, and please, anyone jump in an tell me where I got it wrong.

Example #1
Using Butter-Bot on BitStamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with no time offset (so it is checking at the top of the hour).
This example checks at the top of the hour, and does the calculations, if there has been a crossover, then it makes the needed trades.

Example #2
Watching BitWisdom on Bitstamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with live feed (so it is checking constantly).
This example uses the same settings as Example #1, but it just checks a whole lot more often, so it is much more accurate at spotting the actual crossover, when it happens. So you aren't missing it by 1-59 mins late.


Why does the frequency of data point updates have to be the same as the (2h, 1h, 30m, 15m) EMA time setting?

[mboehler]

I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

Let me give two examples, and please, anyone jump in an tell me where I got it wrong.

Example #1
Using Butter-Bot on BitStamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with no time offset (so it is checking at the top of the hour).
This example checks at the top of the hour, and does the calculations, if there has been a crossover, then it makes the needed trades.

Example #2
Watching BitWisdom on Bitstamp, 1Hour, 10/21, with live feed (so it is checking constantly).
This example uses the same settings as Example #1, but it just checks a whole lot more often, so it is much more accurate at spotting the actual crossover, when it happens. So you aren't missing it by 1-59 mins late.


Why does the frequency of data point updates have to be the same as the (2h, 1h, 30m, 15m) EMA time setting?

OK, I think I understand now.  The Interval setting in Butterbot seems to do two things:

1) Calculates EMA at the set interval
2) Checks the threshold at the set interval and buys/sells if the value is met.

What you are doing at BitWisdom is watching the 1 hour EMA lines, but you are watching them continuously throughout the day, not just checking at 1 hour intervals.  Is that correct?

As far as I know, there is no way for to do that with this Bot.  Although it does seem like it would be a nice feature for the future!  I wonder if there are any drawbacks to having it constantly looking at the data.

[Jazkal]

What you are doing at BitWisdom is watching the 1 hour EMA lines, but you are watching them continuously throughout the day, not just checking at 1 hour intervals.  Is that correct?

As far as I know, there is no way for to do that with this Bot.  Although it does seem like it would be a nice feature for the future!  I wonder if there are any drawbacks to having it constantly looking at the data.

Yes, that is correct.

Even if it wasn't watching a live feed, but being able to set it at 5m, 10m, 15m, etc. I think that would improve the entry and exit with the market.

[Trafficlearn]

I am not having too much success as of yet either.....seems to be hovering at the same $....made a few bad trades....then one good one.....so i will continue to let it run 24/7 and watch it for the remainder of the week.....I have the time set to 30 min

[Trafficlearn]

And i have another question if anyone can help out....i am trading on BTC-E

This is from the notification email....
EMA diff is at 0.307% (1 BTC = 639.7 USD) at btce.

A buy order was triggered.

Your friendly trading bot.

This is the buy according to BTC-E

BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16
BTC/USD   buy   0.01 BTC   644 USD   6.44 USD   22.12.13 17:16


Seems like a pretty good distance between those numbers?  or am i just reading it wrong?

[fible1]

Butter Bot is designed for long term trading.

Any recommended bot for short term trading to capitalise on the price volatility?

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

This is something we will definitely be looking at for V4 when we develop alternative strategy modules for Butter; like someone already pointed out however, it requires a completely new trading engine and it is not a simple task to design the algorithm either. All in all however, it is quite a requested feature and something we will definitely delve into in the future.



Pablo.

[Spiffy_1]

How close to Version 3 releasing?  I'm holding off purchasing in case it requires a whole new bot purchase instead of a free upgrade.

[Badonkadonk]

Butter Bot is designed for long term trading.

Any recommended bot for short term trading to capitalise on the price volatility?

Pablo: Any plan for a HFT bot?

This is something we will definitely be looking at for V4 when we develop alternative strategy modules for Butter; like someone already pointed out however, it requires a completely new trading engine and it is not a simple task to design the algorithm either. All in all however, it is quite a requested feature and something we will definitely delve into in the future.



Pablo.

we can`t wait 

[fible1]

How close to Version 3 releasing?  I'm holding off purchasing in case it requires a whole new bot purchase instead of a free upgrade.

Hi Spiffy ,
  V3 will be a free upgrade as are all bot upgrades for current subscribers .

We don't have a set date, but early next year is what we are aiming for, hopefully between January and February.

Please let me know if you need anything at all.

Pablo.

[fible1]

**********************************************
Making Your Butter-Bot React More Quickly to the Market:
**********************************************

There has been a lot of email traffic on this is issue lately so let me give you guys a pro tip.

Aside from the obvious "lower your thresholds" you can effectively annul threshold 1 by entering a low negative value (like -50) meaning that that threshold will alway be met by the inverse trend so when the trend switches you only have to cross one threshold instead of two to trigger a trade.

This is not the same as having your threshold set to 0 because with 0 butter will still wait for a positive signal to trigger threshold one, albeit it a very low movement.

There are two thresholds to avoid having Butter trade on market noise, but the one threshold model is also valid and what Gomboo uses so feel free to experiment :=).

I am here if anyone needs anything.

Pablo.

[Jmattes]

**********************************************
Making Your Butter-Bot React More Quickly to the Market:
**********************************************

There has been a lot of email traffic on this is issue lately so let me give you guys a pro tip.

Aside from the obvious "lower your thresholds" you can effectively annul threshold 1 by entering a low negative value (like -50) meaning that that threshold will alway be met by the inverse trend so when the trend switches you only have to cross one threshold instead of two to trigger a trade.

This is not the same as having your threshold set to 0 because with 0 butter will still wait for a positive signal to trigger threshold one, albeit it a very low movement.

There are two thresholds to avoid having Butter trade on market noise, but the one threshold model is also valid and what Gomboo uses so feel free to experiment :=).

I am here if anyone needs anything.

Pablo.

Pablo,

Thank you for taking the time to address this. Can you give us as example of what settings to use to get to trade immediately after the cross over..

I have mine set to a 15 minute duration and a 10/21 with the recommend thresholds to try to get it to react quicker and at a lower/higher part of the curve, but with these smaller dips like the ones over the last few days it has been losing me money. I went from having .43 btc to .40 btc (not to mention starting at .52 btc before figuring out how to properly tweak the bot, when I first got the bot it started some bad trades out the door which I guess I should of realized it would have to buy/sell when it started up so my timing was bad.

It seems the bot really only pays off if it were to sell at say 700 and then the market crashes to 400 or something and rebounds back to 700.. These small trends from say 575 to 650 down to 590 and back 640 and repeat are not where the bot shines and can quickly lose money if a larger longer trend does not occur..

For example it went down to 615 and started to trend back and even at 15mins it moved to 633 by the time it initiated and bought at 636.. not the market went back down the 630.. On top of that is only sold at 621.. 

There is no way to really tell the difference between market noise and when a big trend will occur that would net your profit. By setting it to the default 20/42 even though less trades occur I still see similar problems with the recent noise when you plug the numbers into BitWisdom's EMA tool.

But I guess that is what Gomboo was saying.. after a few bad hits an undisciplined trader would walk away where if you stay when there is the larger trend you can make unrealized profit..

[kireinaha]

Does anyone know how to prevent Butter Bot from spamming my inbox with buy orders?

It seems that occasionally the bot doesn't use all my cash during a buy order, and I'll be left with a small balance of three or four dollars. The bot then tries to spend that balance, but it's below the exchanges minimum buy order, so it will keep trying again and again and spam with me with "buy notification" e-mails each time. Sorry if this has been asked before, I did a quick search and couldn't come up with anything.

[NginUS]

Is anyone using settings that get greater than 16,000% when backtesting on BTC-e for 1 year, who would care to share such settings?

16,665% is the best I've been able to come up with thus far after running the bot for 3 months, and I'm just wondering what other high-yield settings might exist to beat this little record of mine here.

Once I saw someone in the thread talk about how they were getting 18,000% somehow, but they didn't share what settings were able to pull that off.

Thank you in advance.

[tolega]

Is anyone using settings that get greater than 16,000% when backtesting on BTC-e for 1 year, who would care to share such settings?

16,665% is the best I've been able to come up with thus far after running the bot for 3 months, and I'm just wondering what other high-yield settings might exist to beat this little record of mine here.

Once I saw someone in the thread talk about how they were getting 18,000% somehow, but they didn't share what settings were able to pull that off.

Thank you in advance.

Playing now I got this:
1 year BTC-E - Profit: 18447.31% - Max. Profit: 21233.24% Trades: 85

EDIT: It actually goes to over 19000% if you change the minute tick offset

[NginUS]

Is anyone using settings that get greater than 16,000% when backtesting on BTC-e for 1 year, who would care to share such settings?

16,665% is the best I've been able to come up with thus far after running the bot for 3 months, and I'm just wondering what other high-yield settings might exist to beat this little record of mine here.

Once I saw someone in the thread talk about how they were getting 18,000% somehow, but they didn't share what settings were able to pull that off.

Thank you in advance.

Playing now I got this:
1 year BTC-E - Profit: 18447.31% - Max. Profit: 21233.24% Trades: 85

Please do share what settings yield such profits!