(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[Casimir1904]

Trading with a longterm strategy like ema vs a increasing value is in fact just a slow sell off of BTC so sure your usd is volume is increasing as you sell in the longterm just your BTC for a increasing Price.

Trading with ema vs a decreasing value would mean you make more of the increasing item and so also more of the decreasing item...

So Holding vs ema in increasing value would always mean that holding would make more, the problem is you get also out of btc when you need fiat money from time to time, so a Trading strategy should be getting more btc, so you could sell from your extra btc and keep your initial btc or get more btc when you make more with trading then you need in fiat..


So maybe the developer could change it to usd-btc or add it as option.

The graph should show usd value vs btc so you see usd getting worth less vs btc, and then run a test vs previous data if it would make btc and so more usd with the ema strategy...

My bot made now 3 trades.. it started with $213 bought 0.35 btc sold them and bought back 0.309 btc, 3 trades says nothing but it will decrease my btc in the longterm for 100% sure...

[1715620720]

1715620720

[1715620720]

1715620720

[PuertoLibre]

Trading with a longterm strategy like ema vs a increasing value is in fact just a slow sell off of BTC so sure your usd is volume is increasing as you sell in the longterm just your BTC for a increasing Price.

I am glad someone pointed this out as this crossed my mind when I read the last page.

[Casimir1904]

Trading with a longterm strategy like ema vs a increasing value is in fact just a slow sell off of BTC so sure your usd is volume is increasing as you sell in the longterm just your BTC for a increasing Price.

I am glad someone pointed this out as this crossed my mind when I read the last page.

Finaly i found a setting to increase btc in the longrun with this bot...

Setting buy threashold to 0% and sell threashold to 5%

Mtgox settings:
30 min
0.6% fee
starting fund $100
Buy Threashold 0%
Sell Threashold 5%

Trades made in test run over past 2y:
20.11.2013 18:02:00   buy   596.624    $34129.68   34029.68%
19.11.2013 15:02:00   sell   613.000    $34335.69   34235.69%
04.05.2013 02:32:00   buy   98.100    $5528.00   5428.00%
03.05.2013 14:32:00   sell   83.150    $5561.37   5461.37%
16.04.2013 18:32:00   buy   76.500    $5147.48   5047.48%
16.04.2013 00:32:00   sell   77.000    $5178.55   5078.55%
12.04.2013 23:32:00   buy   93.000    $6292.36   6192.36%
10.04.2013 20:32:00   sell   175.000    $6330.35   6230.35%
20.08.2012 05:32:00   buy   9.634    $350.60   250.60%
19.08.2012 21:02:00   sell   8.300    $352.72   252.72%
24.11.2011 01:32:00   buy   2.325    $99.40   -0.60%

As you can see it would make more btc and so also more usd.
It lose btc when btc price is decreasing because of big drop like in april...

Only 11 Trades in 2y...

I'll play more with the settings, other please do the same and search for settings where your btc value really increase in longterm...

I'll post more settings when I find settings with real profit.

Edit:
Anyway it would be nice to see what the profit was when the chart was usd-btc and not btc-usd...

[mboehler]

Can someone please create a graph of btc-usd for a certain time frame such as the past 2 months and then one for usd-btc for the same period.  And then put them both here for us to see?

I still cannot figure out what the difference is.  I mean, I understand that there should be a difference, but I cannot visualize what that difference is.  Having both graphs posted here, ideally with EMA lines, would really help me out.

Thanks!

[vesperwillow]

Trading with a longterm strategy like ema vs a increasing value is in fact just a slow sell off of BTC so sure your usd is volume is increasing as you sell in the longterm just your BTC for a increasing Price.

I am glad someone pointed this out as this crossed my mind when I read the last page.

Finaly i found a setting to increase btc in the longrun with this bot...

Setting buy threashold to 0% and sell threashold to 5%

Mtgox settings:
30 min
0.6% fee
starting fund $100
Buy Threashold 0%
Sell Threashold 5%

Trades made in test run over past 2y:
20.11.2013 18:02:00   buy   596.624    $34129.68   34029.68%
19.11.2013 15:02:00   sell   613.000    $34335.69   34235.69%
04.05.2013 02:32:00   buy   98.100    $5528.00   5428.00%
03.05.2013 14:32:00   sell   83.150    $5561.37   5461.37%
16.04.2013 18:32:00   buy   76.500    $5147.48   5047.48%
16.04.2013 00:32:00   sell   77.000    $5178.55   5078.55%
12.04.2013 23:32:00   buy   93.000    $6292.36   6192.36%
10.04.2013 20:32:00   sell   175.000    $6330.35   6230.35%
20.08.2012 05:32:00   buy   9.634    $350.60   250.60%
19.08.2012 21:02:00   sell   8.300    $352.72   252.72%
24.11.2011 01:32:00   buy   2.325    $99.40   -0.60%

As you can see it would make more btc and so also more usd.
It lose btc when btc price is decreasing because of big drop like in april...

Only 11 Trades in 2y...

I'll play more with the settings, other please do the same and search for settings where your btc value really increase in longterm...

I'll post more settings when I find settings with real profit.

Edit:
Anyway it would be nice to see what the profit was when the chart was usd-btc and not btc-usd...

These appear good for truly long-term, and are wagering on BTC value significantly hopping. For instance, your data shows truly only 3 segments of earnings: 11/24/2011-8/20/2012, 4/10/2013-5/4/2013 and then the last 2 in November. This is because of the huge delta.

[Mendelsohn]

Trading with a longterm strategy like ema vs a increasing value is in fact just a slow sell off of BTC so sure your usd is volume is increasing as you sell in the longterm just your BTC for a increasing Price.

I am glad someone pointed this out as this crossed my mind when I read the last page.

Finaly i found a setting to increase btc in the longrun with this bot...

Setting buy threashold to 0% and sell threashold to 5%

Mtgox settings:
30 min
0.6% fee
starting fund $100
Buy Threashold 0%
Sell Threashold 5%

Trades made in test run over past 2y:
20.11.2013 18:02:00   buy   596.624    $34129.68   34029.68%
19.11.2013 15:02:00   sell   613.000    $34335.69   34235.69%
04.05.2013 02:32:00   buy   98.100    $5528.00   5428.00%
03.05.2013 14:32:00   sell   83.150    $5561.37   5461.37%
16.04.2013 18:32:00   buy   76.500    $5147.48   5047.48%
16.04.2013 00:32:00   sell   77.000    $5178.55   5078.55%
12.04.2013 23:32:00   buy   93.000    $6292.36   6192.36%
10.04.2013 20:32:00   sell   175.000    $6330.35   6230.35%
20.08.2012 05:32:00   buy   9.634    $350.60   250.60%
19.08.2012 21:02:00   sell   8.300    $352.72   252.72%
24.11.2011 01:32:00   buy   2.325    $99.40   -0.60%

As you can see it would make more btc and so also more usd.
It lose btc when btc price is decreasing because of big drop like in april...

Only 11 Trades in 2y...

I'll play more with the settings, other please do the same and search for settings where your btc value really increase in longterm...

I'll post more settings when I find settings with real profit.

Edit:
Anyway it would be nice to see what the profit was when the chart was usd-btc and not btc-usd...

I'm quite impressed. Thanks for sharing! Now if you take into account the higher costs (fee + market push) when trading with larger amounts:

Buy & hold (Mt.Gox | 100 USD | 2 years | without offset):
1%: 43,13725490196078 BTC
2%: 42,70152505446623 BTC
3%: 42,26579520697168 BTC
4%: 41,83006535947712 BTC
5%: 41,39433551198257 BTC
6%: 40,95860566448802 BTC
7%: 40,52287581699346 BTC

EMA:
1%: 76,73931552587646 BTC
2%: 68,63056761268781 BTC
3%: 61,30838063439065 BTC
4%: 54,70340567612688 BTC
5%: 48,75176961602671 BTC
6%: 43,39474123539232 BTC
7%: 38,57831385642738 BTC

EMA is doing better until you reach costs between 6-7 % (which seems very, very much from my experience; perhaps when you trade millions).

[Casimir1904]

if you change your settings for trends it could perform better like the timeframe from april to october where no big moves where made, but thats not the idea of a bot for me, it should run automatic in background.

I really think it would perform better on usd-btc chart with ema but we need a graph, i can't make it or better it would take me much time and work to make as i have no knowledge of creating graphs in coding and impleting trading algos to it...

As you see in the 11 trades it made profit in august 2012 for selling higher, but it bought back slighty higher, then it made profit on the begin 2013 up and made a bit loss after till the new up what we have now, but where it bought back also with bit of loss... if their is no big drop now it will sell after the next higher up with profit probably when buying back on a drop again.

On big ups it would be better to shorten the timeframes and do long when not much moving in price, its still better then holding only with few trades.
But you need to keep your computer on for 2y to make 11 trades, for me it would be no problem, my computer what have miners connected could do also the bot trading so its not much more electricy cost at all.

It would be interesting to see how different trading methods will perform on btc-usd and usd-btc with different settings, I think we have data enough to figure it out.

The developer(s) of this bot should also implent more options also if you want to do btc-usd or usd-btc trading and maybe some auto detection of big ups/downs to adjust the settings in such periods automaticly.

On a downtrend you could also make a lot profit with good sells and buys so their is short trading a good option.
On ups you better hold till it goes down again and trade into that downtrend.

When no big movings the trading strategy must also be changes.. i readed only alot about ema last days, I'm don't know enough about other algos but guess we could figure it all out what is best in what trends to do.

At least it helped me already for my manual trades as I see the charts different now...

[NginUS]

I'd like to propose that the developers add password protection to the bot's pause trading & options buttons to protect it from unauthorized tinkering. Of course the use of this password protect feature would be optional, selected by a checkbox.

[NginUS]

I'd like to know if anyone else has had the same problem with their bot as I'm currently having.

What happens is if I use the pause button to disable the bot so I can do a manual trade, within 15 seconds of re enabling the bot it executes a trade, undoing the trade I just did manually, regardless of market condidtions. So then I disable it again, do my manual trade over, this goes on 3 times, and all the while the bot is sending me 'sell' emails while disabled. So I have to exit Chrome to make it stop. The problem with closing Chrome, I learned, is that it clears the logs.

Now in order to give Pablo the logs he needs to debug this, I have to re enable the bot & let it behave this way again, selling for no good reason, and I've been waiting for the market to be in a good place for the bot to sell in, so as to minimize my damages from the random sell decision.

I was hoping someone else has the same experience & can get your logs to Pablo, too to expedite the patch development processz.

[shapemaker]

I'd like to know if anyone else has had the same problem with their bot as I'm currently having.

What happens is if I use the pause button to disable the bot so I can do a manual trade, within 15 seconds of re enabling the bot it executes a trade, undoing the trade I just did manually, regardless of market condidtions. So then I disable it again, do my manual trade over, this goes on 3 times, and all the while the bot is sending me 'sell' emails while disabled.

The bot seems to sell/buy immediately when it decides the conditions you've set are right, even right at enabling.

Best way I've found to make the bot respect manual decisions is to set a reserve for the amount of fiat/BTC you intend to trade beforehand.

Say, you want to sell 10 BTC and keep the fiat for a while. Set a generous reserve of 9k USD, then manual trade.

edit: I'd like seeing a "reverse" trading mode, where the bot considers BTC as the profit currency. Essentially, a tick box which reverses the way the bot trades. I've seen other people request this too, and I believe it should be an easy option to implement.

[nwfella]

The discussions of profiting USD vs BTC are missing the point.

The real question is, does the EMA strategy beat buy-and-hold (i.e., will I have more or less converted BTC after using the bot)? The answer seems to be it depends on the conditions of the market.
During this recent insane rally, I don't see any EMA beating buy-and-hold. Another algorithmic strategy I'm using similarly performed worse than buy-and-hold in this period. I have had success trading half-manually with this bot entering the short position and then manually buying back BTC when I have some gains and I see a trend reversal. EMA has a lag in tracking the trend reversal and the market is moving very fast.

I've been using the bot with close supervision for about 2 weeks and I'm up about 8% in BTC. The largest gain was made by manually buying back during the flash crash two days ago. YMMV.

bottom line, in none of my testing across either butterbot or several competing bots not one of them performed better than simple buy and hold strategy. Obviously there are a near infinite # of strategies I didn't have the opportunity to test, but as of right now, buy and hold is looking like the ticket to maximum profitability imho.

[bizmar]

Here is another example of EMA beating B&H over a 1 year period.

Ps, these are my settings... 

http://f.cl.ly/items/421u3N1z2I0A1l2p2w3Y/Screen%20Shot%202013-11-23%20at%2020.05.09.png

21.11.2013 09:05:00   buy   579.200    $12135.99   B⃦20,953   12035.99%   B⃦259,28%
20.11.2013 05:05:00   sell   520.910    $12160.31   B⃦23,344   12060.31%   B⃦288,88%
11.11.2013 15:05:00   buy   319.020    $7462.24   B⃦23,391   7362.24%    B⃦289,45%
10.11.2013 10:05:00   sell   313.999    $7477.20   B⃦23,812   7377.20%    B⃦294,67%
27.10.2013 18:05:00   buy   178.495    $4258.98   B⃦23,860   4158.98%    B⃦295,26%
24.10.2013 23:05:00   sell   181.566    $4267.52   B⃦23,503   4167.52%    B⃦290,85%
04.10.2013 08:05:00   buy   116.015    $2732.28   B⃦23,551   2632.28%    B⃦291,43%
30.09.2013 19:05:00   sell   122.402    $2737.75   B⃦22,366   2637.75%    B⃦276,78%
25.09.2013 11:05:00   buy   122.700    $2749.92   B⃦22,412   2649.92%    B⃦277,33%
15.09.2013 05:05:00   sell   122.876    $2755.43   B⃦22,424   2655.43%    B⃦277,49%
09.09.2013 19:05:00   buy   119.367    $2682.10   B⃦22,469   2582.10%    B⃦278,05%
08.09.2013 19:05:00   sell   115.300    $2687.48   B⃦23,309   2587.48%    B⃦288,43%
08.09.2013 07:05:00   buy   117.997    $2755.85   B⃦23,355   2655.85%    B⃦289,01%
04.09.2013 07:05:00   sell   124.450    $2761.38   B⃦22,189   2661.38%    B⃦274,57%
24.08.2013 23:05:00   buy   106.940    $2377.61   B⃦22,233   2277.61%    B⃦275,12%
23.08.2013 12:05:00   sell   103.246    $2382.37   B⃦23,074   2282.37%    B⃦285,54%
19.08.2013 09:05:00   buy   98.710    $2282.27   B⃦23,121   2182.27%    B⃦286,11%
16.08.2013 09:05:00   sell   95.855    $2286.85   B⃦23,857   2186.85%    B⃦295,22%
14.08.2013 06:05:00   buy   95.597    $2285.26   B⃦23,905   2185.26%    B⃦295,81%
08.08.2013 11:05:00   sell   95.890    $2289.84   B⃦23,880   2189.84%    B⃦295,50%
05.08.2013 13:05:00   buy   96.038    $2297.97   B⃦23,927   2197.97%    B⃦296,09%
02.08.2013 05:05:00   sell   94.000    $2302.58   B⃦24,496   2202.58%    B⃦303,12%
28.07.2013 23:05:00   buy   89.460    $2195.76   B⃦24,545   2095.76%    B⃦303,73%
27.07.2013 12:05:00   sell   86.820    $2200.16   B⃦25,342   2100.16%    B⃦313,59%
23.07.2013 08:05:00   buy   84.949    $2157.06   B⃦25,392   2057.06%    B⃦314,22%
17.07.2013 00:05:00   sell   88.459    $2161.38   B⃦24,433   2061.38%    B⃦302,35%
10.07.2013 05:05:00   buy   72.250    $1768.87   B⃦24,483   1668.87%    B⃦302,96%
09.07.2013 17:05:00   sell   69.698    $1772.42   B⃦25,429   1672.42%    B⃦314,68%
08.07.2013 03:05:00   buy   71.321    $1817.32   B⃦25,480   1717.32%    B⃦315,31%
21.06.2013 16:05:00   sell   105.010    $1820.97   B⃦17,341   1720.97%    B⃦214,58%
18.06.2013 05:05:00   buy   102.160    $1775.10   B⃦17,376   1675.10%    B⃦215,01%
14.06.2013 02:05:00   sell   105.053    $1778.65   B⃦16,930   1678.65%    B⃦209,51%
11.06.2013 12:05:00   buy   105.800    $1794.89   B⃦16,965   1694.89%    B⃦209,93%
31.05.2013 22:05:00   sell   126.000    $1798.49   B⃦14,274   1698.49%    B⃦176,63%
30.05.2013 02:05:00   buy   127.660    $1825.83   B⃦14,302   1725.83%    B⃦176,98%
28.05.2013 01:05:00   sell   126.500    $1829.49   B⃦14,462   1729.49%    B⃦178,96%
17.05.2013 16:05:00   buy   109.815    $1591.37   B⃦14,491   1491.37%    B⃦179,32%
15.05.2013 00:05:00   sell   108.118    $1594.56   B⃦14,748   1494.56%    B⃦182,50%
13.05.2013 19:05:00   buy   113.010    $1670.05   B⃦14,778   1570.05%    B⃦182,87%
12.05.2013 20:05:00   sell   110.777    $1673.39   B⃦15,105   1573.39%    B⃦186,93%
10.05.2013 13:05:00   buy   112.200    $1698.29   B⃦15,136   1598.29%    B⃦187,30%
07.05.2013 05:05:00   sell   102.501    $1701.69   B⃦16,601   1601.69%    B⃦205,44%
04.05.2013 18:05:00   buy   112.500    $1871.43   B⃦16,635   1771.43%    B⃦205,85%
01.05.2013 13:05:00   sell   129.080    $1875.18   B⃦14,527   1775.18%    B⃦179,77%
29.04.2013 19:05:00   buy   133.200    $1938.91   B⃦14,556   1838.91%    B⃦180,13%
26.04.2013 09:05:00   sell   122.510    $1942.80   B⃦15,858   1842.80%    B⃦196,24%
18.04.2013 01:05:00   buy    86.666    $1377.13   B⃦15,890   1277.13%    B⃦196,63%
11.04.2013 06:05:00   sell   171.100    $1379.89   B⃦8,065    1279.89%   B⃦296,04%
02.12.2012 00:05:00   buy   12.350    $99.80      B⃦8,081    

+1 on profit and percent displayed in btc, because that was annoying to calculate...

[KunningLinguist]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

[madpoet]

I don't know how, since there's been no EMA cross to sell.

[seanrarey]

I don't know how, since there's been no EMA cross to sell.

+1

[KunningLinguist]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

[Casimir1904]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

Their was no need to test the "recommed" settings read my postings in this thread where i pointed that out already that btc-usd trading with ema is a slow sell off of bitcoins and as bitcoins keep increasing it shows usd profit but only because btc price get higher not from good trades.

But seems the developer isn't reading frequently here.

[seanrarey]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

What we are seeing is extreme movement in the market.

Anybody trading in the market should understand the market, understand EMA and how it works, and make informed decisions on strategy.

Butter is the best bot I have found to assist me in my trading.  However, "magic" does not exist in trading, and one still needs to be informed and responsible for their trading.  Depending on what your research leads you to believe (nothing but up? Bubble?), you may or may not want to pause the bot in certain market conditions.

In the end, these are traders decisions, and as you become better at it you will make the correct calls more often.

[KunningLinguist]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

Their was no need to test the "recommed" settings read my postings in this thread where i pointed that out already that btc-usd trading with ema is a slow sell off of bitcoins and as bitcoins keep increasing it shows usd profit but only because btc price get higher not from good trades.

But seems the developer isn't reading frequently here.

Yes so you will effectively trading at a loss constantly while your portfolio increases less than if you dont trade.

[KunningLinguist]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

What we are seeing is extreme movement in the market.

Anybody trading in the market should understand the market, understand EMA and how it works, and make informed decisions on strategy.

Butter is the best bot I have found to assist me in my trading.  However, "magic" does not exist in trading, and one still needs to be informed and responsible for their trading.  Depending on what your research leads you to believe (nothing but up? Bubble?), you may or may not want to pause the bot in certain market conditions.

In the end, these are traders decisions, and as you become better at it you will make the correct calls more often.

This is a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed. I use another bot that is far superior and gives you the options. This has very little to control your losses in a high volume market.