Off-Topic

[MinermanNC]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

So out of all the money you received, you blew through over half of it AFTER Yifu refunds the chip orders?

By rough estimates, you blew through $300,000 to $500,000.  Only offering a 55 percent refund on orders is lame.  

I can't imagine.  Well, I can.  Were you doing blow and buying Herman Miller chairs for the office or what?  How much skin do you have in the game here?

Well you know how it is, new company cars, trips to see venders and suppliers in other countrys, company picnics, (a few home repairs, new garage, remodels etc) just usual and customary business expenses. Oh and Im sure plenty of new highend high powered hashing gear, maybe 20-30 terrahashes worth, from cointerra, KNCminer paid for with untraceable currency, a/k/a (your pre order BTC funds) for their own personal use after the fact. Ya, running a small business can be brutal sometimes for the owners

[CanaryInTheMine]

You have to be a total idiot to send btc or a wire transfer to ANYONE who promises to deliver something sometime to you. (Instead of in stock product)

At least, send PayPal or credit card but dispute if nothing is received within the 45 days.
There are business people here who don't fall in love with an idea and execute and there are suckers here.

Where do you land?

PS I disputed right before 45 days and got 100% back.  Thesweede75 can confirm.

[gbx]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

So out of all the money you received, you blew through over half of it AFTER Yifu refunds the chip orders?

By rough estimates, you blew through $300,000 to $500,000.  Only offering a 55 percent refund on orders is lame.  

I can't imagine.  Well, I can.  Were you doing blow and buying Herman Miller chairs for the office or what?  How much skin do you have in the game here?

Well you know how it is, new company cars, trips to see venders and suppliers in other countrys, company picnics, (a few home repairs, new garage, remodels etc) just usual and customary business expenses. Oh and Im sure plenty of new highend high powered hashing gear, maybe 20-30 terrahashes worth, from cointerra, KNCminer paid for with untraceable currency, a/k/a (your pre order BTC funds) for their own personal use after the fact. Ya, running a small business can be brutal sometimes for the owners

I'll lay odds they took delivery of the chips and are rationalizing that they're going to mine their way out of debt.

I'll also lay odds that we'll hear even fewer and fewer updates from TerraHash as time moves on and this whole thing will just quietly disappear into the conversational background murmur of this forum.

Some have more skin in the game than others.  My sincerest regret to all those who, like myself, believed.  It is still possible to PayPal reverse.  If you need help with that, PM me.  I (and I'm sure others) can save you hours on the phone with 3rd world countries.  I suspect that this is the "PayPal debt" that Amir mentioned in his post.  I would have thought they would have frozen partial funds of Amir's account rather than let him empty it.  But at any rate, I'm sure PayPal's legal department will clean up this mess with Amir in the coming months/years.

[notlist3d]

I was never once wrong, game set match.

This is who you are deciding to lead you into a lawsuit... I wish you all the best of luck.

btceic i want to give you a big thumbs up.  You used reason and stuck up for logic.  You took a harder bashing then me on what they called trolling, or what is now called the truth.

I still want to share this day with knight!  Knight can you please confirm when they are refunding 50 percent?  Also how much they spent?  You vouching will mean the world.... 

With it being a Inc, any lawyer who does not charge hourly after researching this chances are will tell you to cut your losses unless you spent a rediclous amount of money.  They will NEVER be able to give 100 percent back, i still am willing to be Amir pulled in a nice salary.  So say you win take out lawyer fees, you and everyone else suing is fighting for a limited amount of cash.  You can will all your money in court against TH.... but if you win just example 100 dollars but they have 20 dollars to their name you will never get the rest.

The ones who kept saying stick in with TH they are working on it.  Believing their word without any proof should be ashamed if you made anyone wait past 45 days on paypal.  And caused even a few to lose cash.

[notlist3d]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

So out of all the money you received, you blew through over half of it AFTER Yifu refunds the chip orders?

By rough estimates, you blew through $300,000 to $500,000.  Only offering a 55 percent refund on orders is lame.  

I can't imagine.  Well, I can.  Were you doing blow and buying Herman Miller chairs for the office or what?  How much skin do you have in the game here?

Well you know how it is, new company cars, trips to see venders and suppliers in other countrys, company picnics, (a few home repairs, new garage, remodels etc) just usual and customary business expenses. Oh and Im sure plenty of new highend high powered hashing gear, maybe 20-30 terrahashes worth, from cointerra, KNCminer paid for with untraceable currency, a/k/a (your pre order BTC funds) for their own personal use after the fact. Ya, running a small business can be brutal sometimes for the owners

I'll lay odds they took delivery of the chips and are rationalizing that they're going to mine their way out of debt.

I'll also lay odds that we'll hear even fewer and fewer updates from TerraHash as time moves on and this whole thing will just quietly disappear into the conversational background murmur of this forum.

Some have more skin in the game than others.  My sincerest regret to all those who, like myself, believed.  It is still possible to PayPal reverse.  If you need help with that, PM me.  I (and I'm sure others) can save you hours on the phone with 3rd world countries.  I suspect that this is the "PayPal debt" that Amir mentioned in his post.  I would have thought they would have frozen partial funds of Amir's account rather than let him empty it.  But at any rate, I'm sure PayPal's legal department will clean up this mess with Amir in the coming months/years.

They have had one board shown to hash at low speeds at HW errors.  They will not mine their way out of debt. 

TH as a company is dissolving ..... this means no more.  The mess cannot be cleaned up at this point.   PayPal can sue them, but they wont get near what TH owes them.  With banks, paypal, and credit cards all wanting money from TH chances are there is a good amount they just didnt pay.

Every salary, expense, or anything else they spent will NEVER be seen again.  Some will feed you lines like you can get Amirs assets and get it.... but in real world TH turned out to be shady company but with protection of INC, the owners still made salary and you will never see a lot again.

[pitkaran]

The ones who kept saying stick in with TH they are working on it.  Believing their word without any proof should be ashamed if you made anyone wait past 45 days on paypal.  And caused even a few to lose cash.

I think it goes without saying that everyone on this forum is responsible only for their own financials. It is said in so many instances that you should not invest in BTC or mining unless you are ready to lose that amount you are investing.

Just my 5 euro cents.

[CoinJay]

Danny Bradbury here from Coindesk.com. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who ordered equipment from Terrahash, who failed to receive equipment or a refund. Please PM me with details including order date, amount, and when a refund was requested. Thanks.

[gbx]

They have had one board shown to hash at low speeds at HW errors.  They will not mine their way out of debt. 

TH as a company is dissolving ..... this means no more.  The mess cannot be cleaned up at this point.   PayPal can sue them, but they wont get near what TH owes them.  With banks, paypal, and credit cards all wanting money from TH chances are there is a good amount they just didnt pay.

Every salary, expense, or anything else they spent will NEVER be seen again.  Some will feed you lines like you can get Amirs assets and get it.... but in real world TH turned out to be shady company but with protection of INC, the owners still made salary and you will never see a lot again.

It's pointless to speculate.  I suspect that the coins spent on Yifu's chips will not be seen again.  Refunded or not to Amir.  He's just in too deep to actually take it on the chin with big name players.  His intentions might be to provide partial refunds... but the customers are the little people here.  And any recovery of funds will be a 60/40 split or worse with lawyers.   so at best, many will be spending good money after bad.

PayPal doesn't care about his corporation.  PayPal is huge, they can go after his personal assets if they can prove malicious intent.  Even then, who knows what will be recovered.  That shouldn't be too hard here.  They should be quick to put a lien on his assets before he liquidates real estate, etc.

Overall, this is pretty shitty all around.  Yifu and his greedy Chinese friends really shit all over bitcoin.

[DeathAndTaxes]

As a PSA in most states an insolvent corporation can not dissolve attempting to do so can be viewed by the state/courts as a means to a fraudulent conveyance.   All companies are required to notify creditors of the closure and provide deadline for submitting claims.   In most states failure to notify in writing gives a creditor grounds for the claim to survive the dissolution.  An insolvent corporation generally is required to seek bankruptcy protection and/or settle with creditors before it can dissolve.   Any assets of the corporation would be liquidated.  Any significant salaries and other compensation which are excessive relative to the amount of work especially to employees who are also owners can be deemed by the bankruptcy courts as a fraudulent conveyance.

If TH is truly insolvent there PROPER sequence of events would be
a) open books (balance sheet and cashflow statement) to creditors.  This shows "what the company has", "what the company owes" and "where the money went".
b) file bankruptcy (technically seek bankruptcy protection from the courts because the entity has insufficient assets to pay its creditors)
c) notify creditors of the bankruptcy dates
d) under bankruptcy protection, liquidate assets, pay creditors (potentially less than full amount) and dissolve the entity

Simply saying "sorry we are out of money and dissolving" doesn't even come close the standard required by any state.  Hell it probably isn't legal in Somalia.

[gbx]

As a PSA in most states an insolvent corporation can not dissolve attempting to do so can be viewed by the state/courts as a means to a fraudulent conveyance.   All companies are required to notify creditors of the closure and provide deadline for submitting claims.   In most states failure to notify in writing gives a creditor grounds for the claim to survive the dissolution.  An insolvent corporation generally is required to seek bankruptcy protection and/or settle with creditors before it can dissolve.   Any assets of the corporation would be liquidated.  Any significant salaries and other compensation which are excessive relative to the amount of work especially to employees who are also owners can be deemed by the bankruptcy courts as a fraudulent conveyance.

If TH is truly insolvent there PROPER sequence of events would be
a) open books (balance sheet and cashflow statement) to creditors.  This shows "what the company has", "what the company owes" and "where the money went".
b) file bankruptcy (technically seek bankruptcy protection from the courts because the entity has insufficient assets to pay its creditors)
c) notify creditors of the bankruptcy dates
d) under bankruptcy protection, liquidate assets, pay creditors (potentially less than full amount) and dissolve the entity

Simply saying "sorry we are out of money and dissolving" doesn't even come close the standard required by any state.  Hell it probably isn't legal in Somalia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiCilTzhXrA

[btceic]

I was never once wrong, game set match.

This is who you are deciding to lead you into a lawsuit... I wish you all the best of luck.

btceic i want to give you a big thumbs up.  You used reason and stuck up for logic.  You took a harder bashing then me on what they called trolling, or what is now called the truth.

I still want to share this day with knight!  Knight can you please confirm when they are refunding 50 percent?  Also how much they spent?  You vouching will mean the world.... 

With it being a Inc, any lawyer who does not charge hourly after researching this chances are will tell you to cut your losses unless you spent a rediclous amount of money.  They will NEVER be able to give 100 percent back, i still am willing to be Amir pulled in a nice salary.  So say you win take out lawyer fees, you and everyone else suing is fighting for a limited amount of cash.  You can will all your money in court against TH.... but if you win just example 100 dollars but they have 20 dollars to their name you will never get the rest.

The ones who kept saying stick in with TH they are working on it.  Believing their word without any proof should be ashamed if you made anyone wait past 45 days on paypal.  And caused even a few to lose cash.

Thanks for the recognition, I appreciate it!

Regarding your last statement above, it is my opinion that Bar at the very least is either complicit and therefore liable or is sadistic, either way no-one should be following his advice on anything.

[btceic]

Simply saying "sorry we are out of money and dissolving" doesn't even come close the standard required by any state.  Hell it probably isn't legal in Somalia.

Just like everything else they did...

[btceic]

New poll, check it out!

Is Bargraphics complicit?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301806.0

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

Why only 50% refund?
Did you develop asics chips? No!
SO where did the money go ?

Salaries.

[pixl8tr]

Why only 50% refund?
Did you develop asics chips? No!
SO where did the money go ?

Salaries.

Lawyers   

[atomicchaos]

New poll, check it out!

Is Bargraphics complicit?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301806.0

Please add: No, he's just a megalomaniac.

[btceic]

New poll, check it out!

Is Bargraphics complicit?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301806.0

Please add: No, he's just a megalomaniac.

That is what the grapefruit option is for

[mrthundercleese]

OMG - Terrahash folds, and the trolls are still arguing to protect their egos.


Say with me.

1. 2. 3. - I'm over it.

Now get over it... and get on with business, whatever business you have besides defending your precious ego.

This deserves to be said again. Lots of stuff going on in this thread that does nothing to help people who are in a bind. Anyone looking for some recourse has to crawl through a bunch of self gratifying ego pumping posts. Can we move on from that already?

[notlist3d]

They have had one board shown to hash at low speeds at HW errors.  They will not mine their way out of debt. 

TH as a company is dissolving ..... this means no more.  The mess cannot be cleaned up at this point.   PayPal can sue them, but they wont get near what TH owes them.  With banks, paypal, and credit cards all wanting money from TH chances are there is a good amount they just didnt pay.

Every salary, expense, or anything else they spent will NEVER be seen again.  Some will feed you lines like you can get Amirs assets and get it.... but in real world TH turned out to be shady company but with protection of INC, the owners still made salary and you will never see a lot again.

It's pointless to speculate.  I suspect that the coins spent on Yifu's chips will not be seen again.  Refunded or not to Amir.  He's just in too deep to actually take it on the chin with big name players.  His intentions might be to provide partial refunds... but the customers are the little people here.  And any recovery of funds will be a 60/40 split or worse with lawyers.   so at best, many will be spending good money after bad.

PayPal doesn't care about his corporation.  PayPal is huge, they can go after his personal assets if they can prove malicious intent.  Even then, who knows what will be recovered.  That shouldn't be too hard here.  They should be quick to put a lien on his assets before he liquidates real estate, etc.

Overall, this is pretty shitty all around.  Yifu and his greedy Chinese friends really shit all over bitcoin.

PayPal is not above the law.  No matter how huge if his Inc was set up right they cant go after personal assets. I hope for you guys Amir mixed his assets with TH assets so you do get his cash to.   And good luck proving malicious intent from stupid business practices.  Unless you have some internal memo or something intent is not easy not something easy.

Again you can sue for anything..... winning AND getting money is different things.

[Vinnigar]

I got a refund from Paypal yesterday!!
I just emailed them explaining the situation and put in a load of screenshots from this thread, of some of their broken promises!

I might still have the email address of someone in the complaints department if any wants it to send a direct email??