Off-Topic

[gbx]

Patience is a virtue
Now, you can either be content with the turnout of the whole fiasco and stop attacking me personally, and wait for your refunds. Or, you continue accusing me of being a scammer, and continue publishing my addresses publicly and tarnishing my image. Its up to you. Some of you have already done a lot of irreparable damage, not just to me but to all the TerraHash customers. And please remember, that there is only so much that I can take. If pushed into a corner, I will defend myself.

Which begs the question... where are Cloudhashing's funds?  It doesn't add up.  You have twice the amount of funds you originally anticipated because the chips were paid for twice... one via crowdsource and once via cloudhashing.

You really should put some of your own skin in this game to bridge the refund gap, or finish what you started..  bailing out now is only going to put you behind the 8 ball.  At least if you were to deliver your promised products, even extremely late, no one could cry scam.  However, a 50 percent refund is not going to satisfy anyone.

No business is exempt from risk.  and no business requires zero startup capital to scale to the levels you'd hoped.  It's just not right.

[Bargraphics]

Even if nobody asked for a refund, we would still have been left with about $125,000 worth of useless components (read point 4 above). But with about half of our customers asking for a refund, we would be stuck with another $350,000 worth of inventory that we couldn't have sold for more than $150,000, putting us under red for over $300,000. I am sorry, but I am not running a charity. It made much more sense to ask for a refund from Yifu and pay back as much as possible, without going into debt.

Yifu refund of (4) Groups would be BTC3120 - ~$396,000
(Coinbase Price is ~$127/BTC)

+ $150,000 max for selling all of the components

= $519,000 (I am assuming this is the 50% that you can refund) so there would have had to be ~$1,000,000 of pre-orders taken.

+ Since 20-25% of each order was "Profit", so it should be able to be refunded - ($200,000 - $250,000)

Also 20-25% was our average profit per order. So even with option 'b', we are willing to make 0 profit from this whole Avalon saga, just for the sake our next project and to maintain long-term credibility for our company.

= ~$750,000 should be available for refund in USD or BTC (I don't have a preference which one it is)


So with all of that, 50% is the best that can be done for all customers? It's hard to believe right now. If anyone sees anything wrong with these numbers please let me know.

I think we should get a gang of guys and get some weapons make a visit to his location in the night and seriously force that amir to refund every penny he has - now that we know his address...

This is highly inappropriate to say or suggest.

[MinermanNC]

As far as terrahsh,,a long time ago terrahash,,,I ask that all you have to do is to tell us the good the bad and the ugly,,,,even if it wasnt good news,,,and dont leave us all hanging in the dark,,but you didn't anyways,,time and time again,,that was your downfall...there were many who offered to help,even come to your office and lend time helping with support tickets etc etc,,,,,but we all heard nothing but silence week after week,,,,,and we waited and waited for some news on anything,,,,,, so you see, because of that, its really hard for us to be empathetic for you and your demise, we all know its really sucks,,,, goodluck...

[joeventura]

knightlife also made an ebay listing that i had mentioned before.   knightlife promised people 15 btc per year for only $250. on ebay.  well how can that be honest Huh  that is like giving away $1500 for 250.  each listing on ebay was for 5 units of his miners (not one unit per listing)

see here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bitcoin-BTC-virtual-miner-10-GH-s-/181191689905

see the writing in green


I guarantee that your rented miners will make you 15 Bitcoin or 660 Litecoin
(your choice) in 1 year from start of my mining operation for
each 5 units purchased.

this is definitely fraud.

Accusing people of fraud is very serious especially when you have not a single shred of evidence.

So either provide your detailed proof or shut up.

[ralree]

knightlife promised people 15 btc per year for only $250. on ebay.  well how can that be honest Huh  that is like giving away $1500 for 250.

I like how this accusation pastes a quote that plainly shows he's talking about 5 units.

I'll post it with "helpy font" so we can all read it to ourselves aloud:

I guarantee that your rented miners will make you 15 Bitcoin or 660 Litecoin
(your choice) in 1 year from start of my mining operation for
each 5 units purchased.

OK, class, get out your slide rules!  This is going to be difficult!

So, for each 5 units purchased, you will get 15 BTC in exchange for $250 per unit.  Alright, so what did we get out of that?  He was "giving away $1500 for 1500"?!?!  OMG!  SCAMMER!

[gbx]

Knightlife's eBay sales are not the subject of this thread....

BarGraphics - don't forget about the 5% reservations they took for building with owner supplied chips.

You're right, the math doesn't really work for only 50 percent refunds.

[kkooks]

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

^this. Scammer or not, this is the main reason of your (TH) downfall (and everybody else with it).
I sent your numerous contacts and you force ppl to bring it all out on the public thread. It's your choice.

Even with the Avalon chips you supplied. TH didn't bother to complete your order. So the way I see it. TH never intended to complete any of the orders in the time they estimated, if ever.

Exactly.

[ralree]

OMFG this guy is COMEDY GOLD!

I think we should get a gang of guys and get some weapons make a visit to his location in the night and seriously force that amir to refund every penny he has - now that we know his address...

It would look about like this: http://youtu.be/bxoC5Oyf_ss?t=2m50s
Seriously, this kind of talk is really childish.  

[MinermanNC]

oops..... i think i made a political statement and it got deleted,,,,lol,,,,,, was sent to my email,,,as deleted,,,didnt realize at the time were not supposed to do that,,, anyone had that happen?.guess i got off topic,,,

[kkooks]

OMFG this guy is COMEDY GOLD!

I think we should get a gang of guys and get some weapons make a visit to his location in the night and seriously force that amir to refund every penny he has - now that we know his address...

It would look about like this: http://youtu.be/bxoC5Oyf_ss?t=2m50s
Seriously, this kind of talk is really childish.  

what is crazy is that terrahash is looking to scam the community of half a million. And they are trying to do it with your blessing. Now that is definitely not child's play.

[MinermanNC]

SO TERRAHASH,,,, there is no way any of the parts and gear you have on hand can be adapted to the gen 2 chips that our good friend YIFU insist are forth coming in november? or whenever....... there is no chance of picking up any of the pieces to help cushion the blow to those that you owe money to?.... short of knowing your true financial situation?....other than building your own miners from them to make BTC for you own wallet.........which if you did, i would hope that that BTC would go back to those you owe BTC to in here.....Just felt it had to be ask,,,, its ashame as the klondikes design had so much potential,,,,,and yifu says they can be adapted, but,,,,who can trust yifu right??? and many that wanted to trust you have gone away,,,,unless you owe them still,,,,, Just wish you could come clean with all,,, make it right.

[fire5]

When are you going to start the refunds?

[atomicchaos]

Justin / Amir - I believe the best thing you can do at this point is simply answer the questions, and keep in communications with everyone. While those related with Terrahash are clearly going through a very bad time right now, those who purchased from you are as well, and you owe those that believed in you and lost because of it an open line of communications.

It's been stated many times that communications and customer service was probably your main downfall. Do the following:

• Provide Bargraphics or whoever else is seeking to contact you, your info, with the agreement that they will only communicate with you on legal proceedings
• Provide everyone a timeline of communications that you agree to stick to in order to provide updates, so people aren't left hanging for your next message
• Provide as much transparency into your expenses as possible - Noone here was really an investor, but everyone took on that role when you used our funds to fund your venture, and you owe people that you stated will only get 50% back, an answer to where the money was spent
• Explain the Cloudhashing situation, so this doesn't muddy the waters with your promise of 50% refunds
• Provide exact details and timeframes on your refund promise
• Update your webpage to spell out that you are no longer in business, and possibly use that to communicate out to customers if you would prefer not to do it here

[MinermanNC]

Justin / Amir - I believe the best thing you can do at this point is simply answer the questions, and keep in communications with everyone. While those related with Terrahash are clearly going through a very bad time right now, those who purchased from you are as well, and you owe those that believed in you and lost because of it an open line of communications.

It's been stated many times that communications and customer service was probably you main downfall. Do the following:

• Provide Bargraphics or whoever else is seeking to contact you, your info, with the agreement that they will only communicate with you on legal proceedings
• Provide everyone a timeline of communications that you agree to stick to in order to provide updates, so people aren't left hanging for your next message
• Provide as much transparency into your expenses as possible - Noone here was really an investor, but everyone took on that role when you used our funds to fund your venture, and you owe people that you stated will only get 50% back, an answer to where the money was spent
• Explain the Cloudhashing situation, so this doesn't muddy the waters with your promise of 50% refunds
• Provide exact details and timeframes on your refund promise
• Update your webpage to spell out that you are no longer in business, and possibly use that to communicate out to customers if you would prefer not to do it here

Thats right, provide a date when refunds will commence......even if small ones, to start. And stick to it!

[bitcoin carpenter]

Justin / Amir - I believe the best thing you can do at this point is simply answer the questions, and keep in communications with everyone. While those related with Terrahash are clearly going through a very bad time right now, those who purchased from you are as well, and you owe those that believed in you and lost because of it an open line of communications.

It's been stated many times that communications and customer service was probably you main downfall. Do the following:

• Provide Bargraphics or whoever else is seeking to contact you, your info, with the agreement that they will only communicate with you on legal proceedings
• Provide everyone a timeline of communications that you agree to stick to in order to provide updates, so people aren't left hanging for your next message
• Provide as much transparency into your expenses as possible - Noone here was really an investor, but everyone took on that role when you used our funds to fund your venture, and you owe people that you stated will only get 50% back, an answer to where the money was spent
• Explain the Cloudhashing situation, so this doesn't muddy the waters with your promise of 50% refunds
• Provide exact details and timeframes on your refund promise
• Update your webpage to spell out that you are no longer in business, and possibly use that to communicate out to customers if you would prefer not to do it here

Thats right, provide a date when refunds will commence......even if small ones, to start. And stick to it!

+1 glad i took you off my ignore list
that was a great list

[justmyname]

Why only a 50% refund?
With people who paid with PayPal taking a 100% refund, it leaves a lesser share for everyone else. I am sorry, but that's how it is. We do not want to be owing hundreds of thousands to PayPal. Also, with some customers contacting our bank with fraud accusations, Chase has shut down our bank accounts. In my opinion they were just looking for an excuse. They have already contacted us in the past, asking for more information about our business, just because we were a "Bitcoin related business."

Good news. Chase Bank froze their account. They won't be able to touch the money and it may be used to pay back some of customers refunds.   

[Syke]

I am sorry, but I am not running a charity.

Yet you demand your customers donate to you by not giving 100% refunds.

[Axion_Zen]

Since when did TH ever have 4 orders themselves?  They claimed to have ONE order and 3 other "pending" orders from third parties which never took place..

[btceic]

If you are not a scam, you would have sent me back the 360 chips that you have flat out stole from me.
End of story.

Or did you already made the boards and mining yourself? Not a scammer eh?

Your chips are on the way to you already.

hchc, please confirm that they sent you a tracking number for your chips.

[hchc]

If you are not a scam, you would have sent me back the 360 chips that you have flat out stole from me.
End of story.

Or did you already made the boards and mining yourself? Not a scammer eh?

Your chips are on the way to you already.

hchc, please confirm that they sent you a tracking number for your chips.

I'm asking. No response.