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Author Topic: [ANN][ZEN] Horizen: Unbounded By Design  (Read 216644 times)
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July 19, 2018, 10:31:43 PM
 #3541

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Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's?  It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to.  If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate...

I run a small mom n pop mining operation out of my garage in California.  Nothing the size of your copper colored rigs (those pictures were sexy).  I have been evaluating what to mine and decide to fork away from the equihash algorithm.  I can not compete with Z9s, nor want to pretend to.  I reinvested my mining profits from last year into a zencash securenode.  Mom says I need to payoff the GPUs before I can buy anything else and I don't want to sell my zen securenode to fund a few Z9s.

My plan is to mine PHI2 and CryptoNight-Heavy coins.  We are having a heat wave this summer and my GPUs were running 78 degrees C mining equihash.  Now they are running at a cool 66 degrees C. I could move closer to the beach, but mining ZEN is not enough to pay for a Malibu beach house.

I will still keep my secure node running.  Looking forward to the increased rewards.

If Zencash forks away from ASICs and my GPUs can mine the new algorithm (some of my cards only have 3GB of ram), I will be mining ZEN again.  Otherwise I will be monitoring this thread to keep my secure node up to date.

ZET will fork to japanese aikido algo ~ mine this zen buddah ===>

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange?market=ZET_BTC

Wrong crypto, it's Zencash, not Zeta Roll Eyes
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July 19, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
 #3542

Ok but will this forever the case that those figures go towards the ZenCash Core team? Does the community also have a vote on what should be developed next?

This why Team is working on Voting system, because we want active and fair involvement from whole community not only reserved for nodes and big players, rather anyone who has an amount of Zen and wants to contribute this project trough voting.

The ZenCash Treasury and Voting model is the most elegant Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO) model in the market.
The increase of 1.5% is for overcoming voters apathy, we are going to pay voters to vote. Those funds are reward for voters, because we want to provide positive initiatives for joining this ecosystem.

Details of the reward mechanism to voters will be released with more details.  IOHK  have delivered prototype version!




Here you can find out more about ZenCash treasury and voting model:
https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-treasury-and-voting-model-update/
https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-partners-with-infopulse-to-stay-on-the-leading-edge-of-research-and-development-2/

Couple of  interesting videos :
ZenCash and IOHK Partner for Research and Development
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGzhJkAnUmQ&t=1162s

IOHK Research | Prof. Roman Oliynykov, IOHK Collaboration with ZenCash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXez338kg-8&t=3s  

IOHK | Treasury Coin Presentation - Prof. Roman Oliynykov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIaOe52A4A8&feature=youtu.be


This info is much much appreciated and helps to evaluate a project a lot better. Thanks for the summary. I also saw now you have famous investors!

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July 20, 2018, 12:08:06 AM
 #3543

Has the difficulty of the network dropped since the anti ASIC fork? Can we use EWBF with Zhash (equihash 144.5) now?
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July 20, 2018, 01:04:02 AM
 #3544

ZET ZEN ZEC ALL THE SAME PEOPLE? =)

===>

23 SATOSHIS? LOL

------>>

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange?market=ZET_BTC

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF #XTZ ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
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July 20, 2018, 01:05:51 AM
 #3545

Quote
Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's?  It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to.  If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate...

I run a small mom n pop mining operation out of my garage in California.  Nothing the size of your copper colored rigs (those pictures were sexy).  I have been evaluating what to mine and decide to fork away from the equihash algorithm.  I can not compete with Z9s, nor want to pretend to.  I reinvested my mining profits from last year into a zencash securenode.  Mom says I need to payoff the GPUs before I can buy anything else and I don't want to sell my zen securenode to fund a few Z9s.

My plan is to mine PHI2 and CryptoNight-Heavy coins.  We are having a heat wave this summer and my GPUs were running 78 degrees C mining equihash.  Now they are running at a cool 66 degrees C. I could move closer to the beach, but mining ZEN is not enough to pay for a Malibu beach house.

I will still keep my secure node running.  Looking forward to the increased rewards.

If Zencash forks away from ASICs and my GPUs can mine the new algorithm (some of my cards only have 3GB of ram), I will be mining ZEN again.  Otherwise I will be monitoring this thread to keep my secure node up to date.

ZET will fork to japanese aikido algo ~ mine this zen buddah ===>

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange?market=ZET_BTC

Wrong crypto, it's Zencash, not Zeta Roll Eyes


Z coins are zer0coin protocol =) it's not going to shift down is it?

©2021*MY POSTS ARE STRICTLY FOR NOVELTY AND/OR PRESERVATION/COLLECTING PURPOSES ONLY!*It should not be regarded as investment/trading advice.*advocate to promote sharing and free software for the bitcoin community* #EFF #FSF #XTZ ===> START WITH NOTHING AND BUILD IT INTO SOMETHING!
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July 20, 2018, 01:59:56 AM
 #3546

will zen change the algo?
the hardfork scheduled for today is about the supernodes ? any update on the asic resistance debate?
supernodes and change in the block rewards to increase the secure node portion to 10%, add 10% for super nodes and increase the treasury to 10%.

Zen 2.0.14 is the update previously planned before the Equihash ASIC announcement and blockchain attack events.  The time frame to include any new changes was too short to address these issues. However, potential solutions to mitigate chain manipulation from attacks is being worked on and may not require a mandatory upgrade.  At this time we are staying on our regular deprecation schedule. All Miners and Node Operators must upgrade to Zen 2.0. 14 by block 344700.

https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/

I don't want to sound like I'm being difficult.  I'm simply trying to make sure I "understand" you correctly...

What does the chain manipulation may not requiring a mandatory upgrade have to do with the question that was asked?

What question?

Will zen change the algo?

Also, are there plans or are there not plans TO FORK AWAY FROM ASIC's?  Can we get a definitive answer on this or not?  Murgut's question about changing the algo regarded whether or not we will actually fork away from ASIC's.

Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's?  It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to.  If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate...


all you butt hurt gpu miners need to get a life. im sure you were saying the same thing when gpu's took over cpu's...NOT!
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July 20, 2018, 05:31:25 AM
 #3547

So i downloaded the new GUI wallet a while back... it did not work-- unexpected critical error, cannot connect to server.

I later tried Zend --reindex... ran through the whole block chain.  Closed it, tried Gui wallet, still did not work.

Tried some other things, then reindexed again.  Still wallet did not work.

tried running gui wallet while zend ran in a separate window, and that worked.

closed zend window, wallet stopped working...

If i try running just the GUI wallet without manually starting zend, I still get the same unexpected critical error.

Is it intended that zend has to be started in a separate window?  Or is this a bug or a problem with my setup?

-J

And PS~ GPU miners simply moved on to other coins.  What are you going to do when the new Z9 makes your mini Z9 obsolete?
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July 20, 2018, 09:12:46 AM
 #3548

will zen change the algo?
the hardfork scheduled for today is about the supernodes ? any update on the asic resistance debate?
supernodes and change in the block rewards to increase the secure node portion to 10%, add 10% for super nodes and increase the treasury to 10%.

Zen 2.0.14 is the update previously planned before the Equihash ASIC announcement and blockchain attack events.  The time frame to include any new changes was too short to address these issues. However, potential solutions to mitigate chain manipulation from attacks is being worked on and may not require a mandatory upgrade.  At this time we are staying on our regular deprecation schedule. All Miners and Node Operators must upgrade to Zen 2.0. 14 by block 344700.

https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/

I don't want to sound like I'm being difficult.  I'm simply trying to make sure I "understand" you correctly...

What does the chain manipulation may not requiring a mandatory upgrade have to do with the question that was asked?

What question?

Will zen change the algo?

Also, are there plans or are there not plans TO FORK AWAY FROM ASIC's?  Can we get a definitive answer on this or not?  Murgut's question about changing the algo regarded whether or not we will actually fork away from ASIC's.

Will we or will we not fork away from ASIC's?  It's a simple question that I believe we (GPU Miners) deserve an answer to.  If you want to know why we deserve an answer, I'll be happy to elaborate...


all you butt hurt gpu miners need to get a life. im sure you were saying the same thing when gpu's took over cpu's...NOT!

It is indeed up to the developers to decide if they want to fork away so GPU miners can be the ones securing ZEN blockchain.
But a clear answer is not too much to ask for?

About GPU taking over for CPU, you got a valid point! Smiley Wasnt around then, but i imagine some people with CPU riggs complaining Tongue
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July 20, 2018, 10:16:44 AM
 #3549

Oh wow the fork was today, that explains the mooning price. Super nodes are go  Smiley
25% of all $ZEN in circulation is now locked up in Secure Nodes and Super Nodes
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/1019938120274362369

Isn't this wonderful? Fork went flawlessly..

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R I Z E N
....ZEN Nodes.... ....Horizen Academy.... ...Help Desk   ..Faucet  
























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July 20, 2018, 10:26:36 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2018, 01:35:26 PM by MedaR
 #3550


This info is much much appreciated and helps to evaluate a project a lot better. Thanks for the summary. I also saw now you have famous investors!

We are working on usability and acceptance through various partnerships:

An Expansion In Usability, ZenCash Accepted On MindGeek Websites
https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-now-accepted-on-pornhub-websites/

Spend ZenCash Wherever You Go With Paytomat!
https://blog.zencash.com/spend-zencash-with-paytomat/

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R I Z E N
....ZEN Nodes.... ....Horizen Academy.... ...Help Desk   ..Faucet  
























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MedaR
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July 20, 2018, 10:32:38 AM
 #3551

ZenCash today goes on stage again! Find us at Campus Party Italia on the Entrepreneurship stage!


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R I Z E N
....ZEN Nodes.... ....Horizen Academy.... ...Help Desk   ..Faucet  
























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MedaR
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July 20, 2018, 10:49:09 AM
 #3552

Has the difficulty of the network dropped since the anti ASIC fork? Can we use EWBF with Zhash (equihash 144.5) now?
Sorry but this was not anti ASIC fork.

https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/

The updated software included significant code improvements and adjusted the rewards to add a new node class: Super Nodes. https://zencash.com/supernodes/



Fork implemented block reward changes  10% 10% 10% 70%

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MedaR
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July 20, 2018, 11:15:21 AM
 #3553

It is indeed up to the developers to decide if they want to fork away so GPU miners can be the ones securing ZEN blockchain.

But a clear answer is not too much to ask for?

About GPU taking over for CPU, you got a valid point! Smiley Wasnt around then, but i imagine some people with CPU riggs complaining Tongue
Well this is partly truth, because we don't make decisions on our own, we listen community and Yesterday's fork is an answer on many requests from community to increase  Revards for Secure Node and to increse number of Coins needed for Nodes.
Now we have Secure Nodes and Super Nodes and they are direct answer at those questions.

You got clear answer that we have plants to do something regarding ASIC without doubt, this is official statement https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/  But we don't want to rush, to do something without investigation and testing! Nor we want to give you false confidence and sense that we are going into the  "WAR against ASIC", only to gain some cheap points from miners, like some others who manipulating those feelings of yours..

There will be always those who are not satisfied Lips sealed, this why we are implementing voting system so everybody who owns some ZEN will be able to govern this project directly using their rights to vote and make proposals.

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MedaR
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July 20, 2018, 12:40:56 PM
 #3554

So i downloaded the new GUI wallet a while back... it did not work-- unexpected critical error, cannot connect to server.

I later tried Zend --reindex... ran through the whole block chain.  Closed it, tried Gui wallet, still did not work.

Tried some other things, then reindexed again.  Still wallet did not work.

tried running gui wallet while zend ran in a separate window, and that worked.

closed zend window, wallet stopped working...

If i try running just the GUI wallet without manually starting zend, I still get the same unexpected critical error.

Is it intended that zend has to be started in a separate window?  Or is this a bug or a problem with my setup?

-J

And PS~ GPU miners simply moved on to other coins.  What are you going to do when the new Z9 makes your mini Z9 obsolete?
Hi
First you should check that you have latest version of Swing wallet!

Second whatever you do first backup your wallet and your private keys on the safe location!

Third you should delete old wallet application, and install new one,

please check this link - >
https://zencash.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/ZEN/pages/7176693/ZENCashWallet+Swing+Wallet+-+Backup+and+Upgrade

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JosephStalin
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July 20, 2018, 12:53:22 PM
 #3555

When will the algo change , against the ASICS?

I'm with you on that.  We need a fork QUICK!!!  The current network hash rate is approximately 74.5 MH/s.  It was up to 95 MH/s earlier.  This is PAINFUL indeed.  I have 60 x NVIDIA 1080 TI.  Half of which are EVGA 1080 Ti KingPins.  All of my NVIDIA's are EVGA.  They've seen much brighter days.  This is depressing indeed.
....

The increase in hashrate here is nothing compared to what DERO, a cryptonight coin, experienced after the introduction of CN ASICs - it went from 4-6MH/s to as high as 2000MH/s... yes, a ~500x increase. Now it's running at closer to 200MH/s, mainly because of some massively bad decisions on the part of the devs* and because both SUMO and ETN forked back to ASIC-friendly CNv0.


* - namely, they lied about forking to block ASICs and when source code would be released, alienating all but a handful of their long time supporters.



That a true minefield - I guess which are the long term consequences of such a change. No risks of 51% Attacks?
How is ZEN Handling ths Whole issue? I understand there has just been a fork?
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July 20, 2018, 07:39:54 PM
 #3556

That a true minefield - I guess which are the long term consequences of such a change. No risks of 51% Attacks?
How is ZEN Handling ths Whole issue? I understand there has just been a fork?

Has the difficulty of the network dropped since the anti ASIC fork? Can we use EWBF with Zhash (equihash 144.5) now?
Sorry but this was not anti ASIC fork.

https://blog.zencash.com/mandatory-upgrade-zen-2-0-14-super-nodes/

The updated software included significant code improvements and adjusted the rewards to add a new node class: Super Nodes. https://zencash.com/supernodes/



Fork implemented block reward changes  10% 10% 10% 70%

This is our plan to fight 51% attack in the future
https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-leads-the-fight-against-the-51-attack/

https://zencash.com/assets/files/A-Penalty-System-for-Delayed-Block-Submission-by-ZenCash.pdf

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jacko0088
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July 20, 2018, 08:43:42 PM
 #3557


Zen was added on EquiGems mining pool!




https://equigems.online/

Code:
stratum+tcp://equigems.online:[COIN-PORT] -u [YOUR-PAYOUT-ADDRESS] -p ANYTHING

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July 21, 2018, 02:34:58 AM
 #3558


Well this is partly truth, because we don't make decisions on our own, we listen community and Yesterday's fork is an answer on many requests from community to increase  Revards for Secure Node and to increse number of Coins needed for Nodes.
Now we have Secure Nodes and Super Nodes and they are direct answer at those questions.

You got clear answer that we have plants to do something regarding ASIC without doubt, this is official statement https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/  But we don't want to rush, to do something without investigation and testing! Nor we want to give you false confidence and sense that we are going into the  "WAR against ASIC", only to gain some cheap points from miners, like some others who manipulating those feelings of yours..

There will be always those who are not satisfied Lips sealed, this why we are implementing voting system so everybody who owns some ZEN will be able to govern this project directly using their rights to vote and make proposals.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you have anything to lose by forking away from ASICs. I think it is pretty clear that the net benefit of forking away from ASICS is higher than the net benefit of keeping with ASIC algorithms, especially if the focus is on decentralisation.

Back when there were no ASIC Equihash miners, you didn't hear anyone in the community saying 'you should fork TO an ASIC algorithm!', while now there is plenty of support to fork away from an ASIC. The community sentiment is clearly in the direction of less ASICs and more mining decentralisation Smiley

I bet if the Zen voting system was implemented tomorrow and you had a vote on this issue, you'd have a pretty clear result in support of GPU mining.

But if you wait too long, the damage may be done and perhaps through ASICs/Bitmain, Zen ownership may become a little too centralised and who knows what the outcome of the vote would be.

I'm still of the view that Zen in many hands is the best way forward to increase adoption. As a side, this is another reason I really didn't like the Binance Zen listing competition, which required some like 30k USD in Zen purchases to be close to being eligible.

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July 21, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
 #3559

ATTENTION!

We are proud that services are being built on the Zen ecosystem.
When selecting a service provider to setup  Secure Nodes and Super Nodes, please follow these simple guidelines:
1. Do not send stake funds (42 or 500 ZEN) to service provider
2. Do not share the private key of your staking address with the service provider

Please report any service provider that asks you to do either of these things immediately with a team member

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pitt59
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July 21, 2018, 03:27:34 PM
 #3560


Well this is partly truth, because we don't make decisions on our own, we listen community and Yesterday's fork is an answer on many requests from community to increase  Revards for Secure Node and to increse number of Coins needed for Nodes.
Now we have Secure Nodes and Super Nodes and they are direct answer at those questions.

You got clear answer that we have plants to do something regarding ASIC without doubt, this is official statement https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/  But we don't want to rush, to do something without investigation and testing! Nor we want to give you false confidence and sense that we are going into the  "WAR against ASIC", only to gain some cheap points from miners, like some others who manipulating those feelings of yours..

There will be always those who are not satisfied Lips sealed, this why we are implementing voting system so everybody who owns some ZEN will be able to govern this project directly using their rights to vote and make proposals.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you have anything to lose by forking away from ASICs. I think it is pretty clear that the net benefit of forking away from ASICS is higher than the net benefit of keeping with ASIC algorithms, especially if the focus is on decentralisation.

Back when there were no ASIC Equihash miners, you didn't hear anyone in the community saying 'you should fork TO an ASIC algorithm!', while now there is plenty of support to fork away from an ASIC. The community sentiment is clearly in the direction of less ASICs and more mining decentralisation Smiley

I bet if the Zen voting system was implemented tomorrow and you had a vote on this issue, you'd have a pretty clear result in support of GPU mining.

But if you wait too long, the damage may be done and perhaps through ASICs/Bitmain, Zen ownership may become a little too centralised and who knows what the outcome of the vote would be.

I'm still of the view that Zen in many hands is the best way forward to increase adoption. As a side, this is another reason I really didn't like the Binance Zen listing competition, which required some like 30k USD in Zen purchases to be close to being eligible.



fork away from asics just so that fpga will dominate against gpu? currently an fpga has same hashrates as the asics that came out, do you know how to prgram an fpga? does moest people know how to prgram an fpga? can you have a gpu with 128gb mem per card? well good news for you fork away and fpga with 128gb mem will just follow but thing is most people wont be able to use an fpga, why do you think etn and sumo went back to the original algo? i also have 1080ti but and now i just point it to ravencoin but even on that algo it sure has fpga running. i just accept the fact we have been fooled by buying the idea of going anti asic, they sold us the idea and we bought it and while they advocate anti asic they mine with fpga having complete dominance over gpu miners. just accept the fact gpu mining is dead, its either fpga or asic now

if ypu want to go anti asic then you better start learning how to code on vhdl and verilog now, also learn basic electrnics. even if you know how to do all of that there is still no guarantee you can mine with fpga, prog pow? lol any idea on software can be done on hardware, any fpga engr can tell that to you. im slowly selling my gpu anyway bought the sept batch of z9, wasnt able to buy the first batch now was i able to buy the cryptonight asic or any other asic until this sept batch thats coming but makes no difference since fpga are also 2months lead time when you buy them but most people wont be able to learn how to code an fpga.  btc was first mined with cpu then gpu then asic.... wait thats not true, people forgot that before asics mined btc 4-6 months fpga devs mined btc using fpga and they did it secretly and when asics came they sold those fpga  and thats the time people learned of fpga but was pointless already since asics beat fpga. 

just to give you an idea, an fpga that was suppoed to mine btc 6years ago can still mine more btc than the nxt gen best gpu and that fpga runs 40watts only considering thats a 6year old tech, the fpga coming on aug can accomodate 128gb of mem lol maybe even the best gpu for 2030 might not be even be able to beat that, so lets just accept the fact that gpu mining era is over and just choose fpga or asic, btw intel is researching into reprohgrammable asics while bitmain has an ai asic chip lol so its just who of them gets the nxt discovery, intel bought eASIC last week and  is pouring resorces from altera and intel into eASIC for the reprogrammable asic chips
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