[ANN][ZEN] Horizen: Unbounded By Design

[gembitz]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

[MedaR]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

[gembitz]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

transparency is what's needed here.. i can help ----> a blockexplorer tracks all things on the blockchain right?

[MedaR]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

transparency is what's needed here.. i can help ----> a blockexplorer tracks all things on the blockchain right?

Yes everything is on Block Chain, all transactions are recorded!
But zk-SNARKs  have shielded addresses and you cannot see amounts they hold nor you can track such transactions.

This is how Z address looks like:

[MedaR]

[gembitz]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

transparency is what's needed here.. i can help ----> a blockexplorer tracks all things on the blockchain right?

Yes everything is on Block Chain, all transactions are recorded!
But zk-SNARKs  have shielded addresses and you cannot see amounts they hold nor you can track such transactions.

This is how Z address looks like:

so how can you tell how many coins are in existence? :\ hmmm

https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863543600663101440

[MedaR]

so how can you tell how many coins are in existence? :\ hmmm

https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863543600663101440

PoW block reward: 12.5 ZEN
here you can find every block http://explorer.zenmine.pro/insight/ all blocks are recorded!!!

last one is 345944 x 12.5 = 4,324,300

All transactions are there, but you can't find sender, recipient and amount in shielded address,
 but this does not mean the are not recorded in Block, this is heritage from ZCASH.

[Spooknow]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

That's interesting, that is, it turns out that large investors can hide their investments and it's almost impossible to trace them without a long preparation. I think many of the major players this option is just interested.

[gembitz]

so how can you tell how many coins are in existence? :\ hmmm

https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863543600663101440

PoW block reward: 12.5 ZEN
here you can find every block http://explorer.zenmine.pro/insight/ all blocks are recorded!!!

last one is 345944 x 12.5 = 4,324,300

All transactions are there, but you can't find sender, recipient and amount in shielded address,
 but this does not mean the are not recorded in Block, this is heritage from ZCASH.

the exchanges know...! when you send to the exchange they can see how many coins you sent? hmmm

[MedaR]

the exchanges know...! when you send to the exchange they can see how many coins you sent? hmmm

Because they use Transparent addresses.
But this does not stop us to use Z address in our everyday transactions..

[LeGaulois]

so how can you tell how many coins are in existence? :\ hmmm

https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863543600663101440

PoW block reward: 12.5 ZEN
here you can find every block http://explorer.zenmine.pro/insight/ all blocks are recorded!!!

last one is 345944 x 12.5 = 4,324,300

All transactions are there, but you can't find sender, recipient and amount in shielded address,
 but this does not mean the are not recorded in Block, this is heritage from ZCASH.

the exchanges know...! when you send to the exchange they can see how many coins you sent? hmmm

LOL you're funny

But just to let you know Zencash has 2 different addresses types. making a rich list is firstly useless and secondly not possible.
Welcome to privacy!

[Pieangel]

This is a very big project live how we all shared control and view will be much the development of the project, because this project welcome nice and great.

[hiphoptrail]

community takeover!    you are not very good at this....zzz

Maybe you can tell me how are you are going to help this project?

where's the richlist to start? :\ hmmm

Existence of richlist is pointless because we have shielded addresses (shielded addresses hide it completly), anyway majority of coins are locked in nodes..

That's interesting, that is, it turns out that large investors can hide their investments and it's almost impossible to trace them without a long preparation. I think many of the major players this option is just interested.

dude, get a clue. stop posting and spend some time learning the tech. you sound like a fat, pimply red head.

[gembitz]

so how can you tell how many coins are in existence? :\ hmmm

https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863543600663101440

PoW block reward: 12.5 ZEN
here you can find every block http://explorer.zenmine.pro/insight/ all blocks are recorded!!!

last one is 345944 x 12.5 = 4,324,300

All transactions are there, but you can't find sender, recipient and amount in shielded address,
 but this does not mean the are not recorded in Block, this is heritage from ZCASH.

the exchanges know...! when you send to the exchange they can see how many coins you sent? hmmm

LOL you're funny

But just to let you know Zencash has 2 different addresses types. making a rich list is firstly useless and secondly not possible.
Welcome to privacy!

admins of tor site see the amounts of coins?   ...however rich list is impossible?...go on!   SEC weekend division is wondering whos owns these majority of monetary coins?

[karmakazi_dsm]

... But we don't want to rush, to do something without investigation and testing! Nor we want to give you false confidence and sense that we are going into the  "WAR against ASIC", only to gain some cheap points from miners, like some others who manipulating those feelings of yours..

There will be always those who are not satisfied , this why we are implementing voting system so everybody who owns some ZEN will be able to govern this project directly using their rights to vote and make proposals.

I mostly lurk around here, but this post inspired me to pop my head up for a minute.

What you wrote above is one of the main reasons I'm supporting the Zen project. It's about real democracy, not the fake kind of political knee-jerk responses to appease the people who make the most noise. 

I'm also a GPU miner. And I own a few Z9 minis. Whichever way the project goes regarding ASICs, I will continue to support it, because I have faith that these decisions are being made for the best of the project, not for cheap political points.

You have a great team and I really believe in the ethos of Zen - reinforcing the idea that privacy and democracy are human rights, not optional extras in life. That includes the right to disagree with the people who scream the loudest in an attempt to get what they want.

Regarding the "War with ASICs", there's no winning that or any other war. Nobody ever really wins a war. The only ones who ever profit from war are the arms dealers and the people who figure out ways to monetize fear.

Keep up the good work, MedaR. You're quite the patient diplomat. There are a lot of us around here who really appreciate your even-handed contribution, too, even if we're mostly quietly lurking. 

[pitt59]

how were you able to get a few z9 mini, that first batch was 1 per customer, when i found uut about that miner and wanted to buy it was out of stock already

[puwaha]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you have anything to lose by forking away from ASICs. I think it is pretty clear that the net benefit of forking away from ASICS is higher than the net benefit of keeping with ASIC algorithms, especially if the focus is on decentralisation.

What is the net benefit of forking away from ASICs?

The anti-ASIC crowd seem to think that GPUs make a coin more decentralized.  While there are millions of GPUs out there, it's naive to think that many very large farms don't already control large percentages of those GPUs... and thus hashrate.  Pools make the "decentralized" argument even worse.

I argue that just changing parameters of a coin to make it harder for an ASIC to mine it leaves the coin vulnerable to 51% attacks.    ASICs don't solve that problem, but they do make it harder to rent the power economically to make a 51% attack.

Back when there were no ASIC Equihash miners, you didn't hear anyone in the community saying 'you should fork TO an ASIC algorithm!', while now there is plenty of support to fork away from an ASIC. The community sentiment is clearly in the direction of less ASICs and more mining decentralisation

The "community sentiment" is made up of GPU miners who want to preserve their advantage.

I bet if the Zen voting system was implemented tomorrow and you had a vote on this issue, you'd have a pretty clear result in support of GPU mining.

You are probably right... but I don't know if GPU miners have thought this through.

But if you wait too long, the damage may be done and perhaps through ASICs/Bitmain, Zen ownership may become a little too centralised and who knows what the outcome of the vote would be.

ASICs and Bitmain are not the problem.  They provide more efficient tools.  It's like blaming a company that makes very sharp knives for cutting your vegetables too well.

I'm still of the view that Zen in many hands is the best way forward to increase adoption. As a side, this is another reason I really didn't like the Binance Zen listing competition, which required some like 30k USD in Zen purchases to be close to being eligible.

ASIC miners and Bitmain do not stop you from buying Zencash.

[cryptomaxsun]

There is an analog electrum for use in conjunction with the Ledger Nano S?

I do not want to use the built-in software from the Ledger.

[Spooknow]

There is an analog electrum for use in conjunction with the Ledger Nano S?

I do not want to use the built-in software from the Ledger.

Also interested in this issue. It would be very cool if they could imagine something like that. Many people want not only to protect their funds but also convenient access today.

[SwissBoo]

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