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Author Topic: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June  (Read 78372 times)
jelin1984
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May 29, 2013, 01:07:54 PM
 #141

Something is wrong I think
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Bitcoinorama
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May 29, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
 #142

Economies of scale, over 400 chips ordered price drops significantly. We've been through this before...

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May 29, 2013, 01:12:49 PM
 #143

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.


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May 29, 2013, 01:18:56 PM
 #144

Please keep us updated, we have to make a quick decision like you said and your feeling will mean a lot to me.

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May 29, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
 #145

Please keep us updated, we have to make a quick decision like you said and your feeling will mean a lot to me.

I will.

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May 29, 2013, 01:23:46 PM
 #146

And how exactly are they putting 48 of these into a mars when it would cost 9600
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=18&y=12&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=EP4CE115F23C8N

 Over 6GH/s.
48x IC CYCLONE IV FPGA 115K on board chips

You do realize the package on that website comes with 60 chips for $315, not $315 per chip...
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May 29, 2013, 01:33:15 PM
 #147

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.



That's kind of inline with what I was told, and out of sync with what I apparently dreamt up. I do however feel it's a mistake to open the orders until you and others have attended the open day, as we need time to digest what has been divulged once everyone has had a chance to report back, and that may take a few days.

Only then we can more accurately base any decision. Remember Toksu has quite a large list of questions prepared that he will need time to type answers to.

Having an open day hallway between a week of demanding payment would not be sensible or fair. Payment should only be opened once we here back from all those that have attended, and importantly with that list answered. There will be plenty more praise, criticisms and objections to their answers that may need clarification promptly before people can be assured this is a wise investment.

I do hope KnC see this and behave accordingly.

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May 29, 2013, 01:41:23 PM
 #148

No, prices are not the same!

Lancelots are $350/pcs (if >10pcs $300/pcs) or $269/pcs for group manufacturing, 400(382)Mhash/s and 26.5Watt

KNC Mars is 6Ghash/s and ?Watt

So, simple math: 1 KNC Mars (?Watt) ($2795) = 15 Lancelots (~400Watt) ($4500/$4035)

KNC Mars is a better deal



Same price then except lancelots are guaranteed in my hands in a couple weeks.

But is the Mars WORTH it? This could be a long con to sell overpriced fpgas then disappear with no coupon or asics. I can buy cheap lancelots right now. I don't want to buy a mars.

Cheap lancelots? the cheapest i have seen are about $240 and they only hash 400Mhz. So you would need at least twelve to match the Mars unit.

12 x 400 Mhz = 4800 Mhz, just shy of 5Ghz
Cost = $2840 USD not including postage and power packs etc.

hmmmm cheeeap
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May 29, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
 #149

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.



That's kind of inline with what I was told, and out of sync with what I apparently dreamt up. I do however feel it's a mistake to open the orders until you and others have attended the open day, as we need time to digest what has been divulged once everyone has had a chance to report back, and that may take a few days.

Only then we can more accurately base any decision. Remember Toksu has quite a large list of questions prepared that he will need time to type answers to.

Having an open day hallway between a week of demanding payment would not be sensible or fair. Payment should only be opened once we here back from all those that have attended, and importantly with that list answered. There will be plenty more praise, criticisms and objections to their answers that may need clarification promptly before people can be assured this is a wise investment.

I do hope KnC see this and behave accordingly.

Agreed
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May 29, 2013, 01:53:08 PM
 #150

It's each man.

And how exactly are they putting 48 of these into a mars when it would cost 9600
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=18&y=12&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=EP4CE115F23C8N

 Over 6GH/s.
48x IC CYCLONE IV FPGA 115K on board chips

You do realize the package on that website comes with 60 chips for $315, not $315 per chip...

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May 29, 2013, 02:52:59 PM
 #151

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.



That's kind of inline with what I was told, and out of sync with what I apparently dreamt up. I do however feel it's a mistake to open the orders until you and others have attended the open day, as we need time to digest what has been divulged once everyone has had a chance to report back, and that may take a few days.

Only then we can more accurately base any decision. Remember Toksu has quite a large list of questions prepared that he will need time to type answers to.

Having an open day hallway between a week of demanding payment would not be sensible or fair. Payment should only be opened once we here back from all those that have attended, and importantly with that list answered. There will be plenty more praise, criticisms and objections to their answers that may need clarification promptly before people can be assured this is a wise investment.

I do hope KnC see this and behave accordingly.

It's also more complicated.

Sam Cole replied to me saying they had some chips available but would not confirm the delay when those ran out. He did say they would offer the ppl who ordered the Mars and Jupiter to simply skip the Mars and still get the 2K discount on the Jup but did not specify when you would have to make the payment.

They don't seem to ever answer all the questions. There is always sth missing, vague, dismissive, whatnot. V. annoying, it just keep the FUD level above the comfort zone.

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May 29, 2013, 03:13:32 PM
 #152

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.



That's kind of inline with what I was told, and out of sync with what I apparently dreamt up. I do however feel it's a mistake to open the orders until you and others have attended the open day, as we need time to digest what has been divulged once everyone has had a chance to report back, and that may take a few days.

Only then we can more accurately base any decision. Remember Toksu has quite a large list of questions prepared that he will need time to type answers to.

Having an open day hallway between a week of demanding payment would not be sensible or fair. Payment should only be opened once we here back from all those that have attended, and importantly with that list answered. There will be plenty more praise, criticisms and objections to their answers that may need clarification promptly before people can be assured this is a wise investment.

I do hope KnC see this and behave accordingly.

It's also more complicated.

Sam Cole replied to me saying they had some chips available but would not confirm the delay when those ran out. He did say they would offer the ppl who ordered the Mars and Jupiter to simply skip the Mars and still get the 2K discount on the Jup but did not specify when you would have to make the payment.

They don't seem to ever answer all the questions. There is always sth missing, vague, dismissive, whatnot. V. annoying, it just keep the FUD level above the comfort zone.

What needs to be answered, needs to be asked at the open day. So if you have any more questions make sure it's on that list. They can't evade those.

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May 29, 2013, 03:28:30 PM
 #153

The questions are on the list but they still don't answer the relevant ones (like ETA for the FPGA chips, for ex., which is *quite* important)

I was just checking the part availability for the Cyclone IV E 11K 484FBGA (EP4CE115F23C8N) at oemstrade.com and it is very low. So, if they need to fulfill the Mars orders, they would have a TON of chips on hand (why not say so?) or they buy direct from Altera, which means probably longer delivery times (even longer since they don't seem to have the money to buy them without the preorders).

edit: ETA not on the questions list, but asked directly to Sam Cole.

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May 29, 2013, 03:31:02 PM
 #154

And no matter the quantity, how are they getting over 50% off these chips. I'm highly suspecting a pump and dump long con.

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May 29, 2013, 04:51:46 PM
 #155

Prototype for both Jupiter & Saturn Asic Miner probably will only be available in August hopefully. Same as the Mars prototype, once everyone have seen how good  the Mars FPGA Miner is working and running and mining from the videos, photos proof and some of us who went for the live open day view the live demo and ask questions and get answers to their satisfaction, only than will likely Payment button be available for the Mars Miner, same goes for the Asic Miner. FPGA Miner and Asic Miner are 2 different entity. Everyone want to have proof of a working model and the only one available in a few more days is the Mars Miner.  

You are mistaken. As soon as they open the payment process, you will be able to pay for Mars, Jupiter or Saturn - and at that point there will be no prototypes for Jupiter or Saturn.

Au contraire, they said that they will have a working prototype of Mars before/during the payment process. Likely scenario:

- They open payment on a Monday (next one perhaps?)
- They do the Open Day in which they show you the FPGA during the same week (on Wednesday?)
- You have time to pay for 7 days since they open the order book, thus till the following Monday. If you do not pay in that timeframe, you lose your queue spot.

Summing up, you have two options:

1) play on the "safe" side and buy a Mars that you know exists, and that you will receive shortly after payment. You will then keep your spot on the queue, but will have the possibility to pay for the ASICs later on (and with a $2,000 discount), hopefully when a working prototype is available.

2) take a leap of faith and pay for the ASICs as soon as they open the order book, skipping the FPGA - obviously you are keeping your queue spot.

Option 1) is safer, as you can delay the payment for Jupiter/Saturn until there is more proof that the ASICs exist. Nevertheless, the FPGA is overpriced in terms of GH/$, even taking into account that you are entitled for a discount on the ASICs. Your risk here is spending $2,800 + VAT for a 6GHs unit hoping to get an ASIC that may never arrive.

Option 2) is definitely more cost effective, as you are not spending $2,800 (VAT excluded) for a 6 GH/s FPGA that will use quite a lot of power too. Your risk here is paying $7,000 + VAT for a 350 GH/s ASIC miner that may never arrive.

My personal point of view:

I will visit them, and I will make a lot of questions. If they seem to have the ASIC project "on track", and it's feasible to have the delivery in September as promised, I will buy Jupiter/s. If they do not seem to have the ASIC project already "on track" (they'd need to have the chips on production to be able to delivery in September), I will order nothing.

I'm quite sure I will skip the FPGA in any case.




Is really Not Right and Not Fair to take our money without Proof that they have a working model, they will take your money to fund this project without knowing if we will be getting our Jupiter or Saturn Miner in September 2013? Can you guarantee if you don't deliver in September 2013 can we have our money back? The trend is turning into a butterfly and avalon way of doing business. The RISK is there for sure. They Need our money to find their project , that is kind of uncalled for. Do you want to tied up your money for 4 months or longer? is it worth it with No Guarantee they will deliver??

To me is kind of ridiculous. Many of us are cheated by Butterfly and Avalon in waiting and waiting. We need to be clear on What Refund Policy do they have?

Do you wanna wait for 4 months or even longer? What Proof that they can deliver in September 2013? Let say you collect my payment now and you guarantee to deliver end of next month, many of us will order, but now they want us to wait for 4 months or longer and they don't even have proof of a working Jupiter Asic Miner?

All the Avalon DIY would already be mining before August..Guys really I don't know what to say. They promised on their website that they won't be liked butterfly who take your money and 6 months down the road only delivers, feels liked they are already breaking their own promises by taking our money early.  Grin
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May 29, 2013, 04:58:46 PM
 #156

Picture of their Mars prototype on the knc homepage. Er, seems to only have 24 fpga's in it though....
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May 29, 2013, 05:23:04 PM
 #157

for a 350gh/s miner using Avalon Chip will costs you $11,850 and this is only asic chip, but here you get them for $7000?? is it possible? Avalon and Butterfly is already delivering and yet this is risky. Knc has not deliver anything yet so is even more risky. Avalon promise 8 weeks chip delivery which should be anytime now. To wait for 2 months from the day we make payment is tolerable but my goodness not for 4 months or 5 months.
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May 29, 2013, 05:28:23 PM
 #158

for a 350gh/s miner using Avalon Chip will costs you $11,850 and this is only asic chip, but here you get them for $7000?? is it possible? Avalon and Butterfly is already delivering and yet this is risky. Knc has not deliver anything yet so is even more risky.

only 5000$ if you buy the Mars first...

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May 29, 2013, 05:28:57 PM
 #159

Picture of their Mars prototype on the knc homepage. Er, seems to only have 24 fpga's in it though....

it looks great, but they MUST set competitive price for it. if it is 24fpga miner (so I expect around 3GH/s, because web description is 48fpga/6GH), nice price mark should be around 1000$ without any vouchers and with included VAT. shipping in 2 weeks max.

1* power consumption of this miner will be really huge, if you compare it with upcoming ASIC based miners
2* there is a lot of guys, which are now selling their FPGA stuff, because need money/BTC for ASIC chips
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May 29, 2013, 05:35:43 PM
 #160

Waiting for Pluto (smaller footprint, runs cooler).
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