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Author Topic: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June  (Read 78316 times)
Rampion
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June 02, 2013, 07:48:49 PM
 #361

See that's a spiteful way of asking a straight forward question...

KnC and ORSoC are separate companies with some similar directorship.

ORSoC will have a PR nightmare if this is a scam. These aren't days of hidden dodgy dealings anymore. Social media and motivated angry consumers can do more damage to any interrelated companies than in the past...

This is not going to be a "scam". It's just that what they are promising (28nm chips, 350GH/s for $7,000, delivery in September) looks too good to be easily achieved in such a short timeframe, and they may face problems ala BFL/Avalon (because Avalon is also incurring in huge delays, it's just that compared to BFL they shine, because at least they are delivering something).

Everybody who has been involved in bitcoin FPGA and ASICs (including Yifu) says that it's crazy to the develop a 28nm chip at this point, in the sense that what you would save in electricity, etc. is negligible compared to the huge cost of developing 28nm technology compared to 110nm.

Then, check the lead time between the chips orders and delivery. 10 weeks in the case of Avalon, 100 days (14 weeks) in the case of BFL. I'm quite sure everybody is manufacturing at TSMC, so that's pretty much the timing for the chips - how is it possible that KNC can have everything developed for September, if they are finalizing NOW their FPGA? And to those thinking that TSMC may be faster for KNCMINER because ORSoC is involved... WAKE UP. TSMC is a company with a yearly turnover of +$10B (yes, more than 10 BILLIONS), everybody manufactures at TSMC, they won't "run" for a customer unless that customer is Apple (and maybe not even for them).

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June 02, 2013, 07:49:52 PM
 #362

KS i think an e-mail is way better than a PM.

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June 02, 2013, 07:50:08 PM
 #363

really don't see why you guys are freaking out about this -- knc miner has already put forth much more documentation and trust then any ASIC company thus far, yes, even more than avalon did when they started
When is a new company that needs its first customers who are customers and investors.
But without any warranty.
Any information is little.
It would be more fair to let investors only, until you have the finished product. Then pay the difference for our orders.

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June 02, 2013, 07:55:19 PM
 #364

Everybody manufactures at TSMC, they won't "run" for a customer unless that customer is Apple (and maybe not even for them).

So you suggest a change of logo?? Grin


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June 02, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
 #365

See that's a spiteful way of asking a straight forward question...

KnC and ORSoC are separate companies with some similar directorship.

ORSoC will have a PR nightmare if this is a scam. These aren't days of hidden dodgy dealings anymore. Social media and motivated angry consumers can do more damage to any interrelated companies than in the past...

This is not going to be a "scam". It's just that what they are promising (28nm chips, 350GH/s for $7,000, delivery in September) looks too good to be easily achieved in such a short timeframe, and they may face problems ala BFL/Avalon (because Avalon is also incurring in huge delays, it's just that compared to BFL they shine, because at least they are delivering something).

Everybody who has been involved in bitcoin FPGA and ASICs (including Yifu) says that it's crazy to the develop a 28nm chip at this point, in the sense that what you would save in electricity, etc. is negligible compared to the huge cost of developing 28nm technology compared to 110nm.

Then, check the lead time between the chips orders and delivery. 10 weeks in the case of Avalon, 100 days (14 weeks) in the case of BFL. I'm quite sure everybody is manufacturing at TSMC, so that's pretty much the timing for the chips - how is it possible that KNC can have everything developed for September, if they are finalizing NOW their FPGA? And to those thinking that TSMC may be faster for KNCMINER because ORSoC is involved... WAKE UP. TSMC is a company with a yearly turnover of +$10B (yes, more than 10 BILLIONS), everybody manufactures at TSMC, they won't "run" for a customer unless that customer is Apple (and maybe not even for them).
Yes, it's not like OrSOC is a company of professional ASIC design (fab-less) company or anything.

TSMC is the Fab, OrSOC does the design.

To be fair, I'm not sure if OrSOC has done a 28nm design before, but they have done many others.  And it's possible it's difficult / expensive to get 28nm fab time since a number of high end companies (AMD, Nvidia, etc) use that node

-

really don't see why you guys are freaking out about this -- knc miner has already put forth much more documentation and trust then any ASIC company thus far, yes, even more than avalon did when they started
When is a new company that needs its first customers who are customers and investors.
But without any warranty.
Any information is little.
It would be more fair to let investors only, until you have the finished product. Then pay the difference for our orders.

I was worried until I saw they parterned with a fairly well known fab company (OrSOC runs Opencores).  Similar to Avalon, it's no suprise that a community with ties to the open source/open hardware community would be the ones to do the design.  But with all respect to Avalon, i'm pretty sure that OrSOC is more specialized for this task.  Avalon certainly won for getting chips out very fast at an established/mature node (110nm).  KNC is now doing the next generation chip.

But yes, I wouldn't be suprised if technical issues / yield issues / time slot issues push the delivery back a few months. I don't think they'd be guilty of anything except optimism, but I do not believe it is naive optimism.


OrSOC is a legitimate semiconductor fab company trying to make a product in a market full of scammers, scumbags and shady people.  It's understandable it'll be rough going at the start like this
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June 02, 2013, 08:00:10 PM
 #366

There are so many baseless/misinformed comments it's scary. The main thing is people should focus on the facts.

Too much speculation and wishful thinking  Roll Eyes

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June 02, 2013, 08:04:52 PM
 #367

really don't see why you guys are freaking out about this -- knc miner has already put forth much more documentation and trust then any ASIC company thus far, yes, even more than avalon did when they started
Wink
Couldn't help myself on that - KnCMiner webpage states they are ACIS company:
Code:
Our custom Bitcoin ACIS miners will be available for orders soon.
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June 02, 2013, 08:08:52 PM
 #368

can we create a list of people who will attend to the open day ?

i will be there on wednesday, 5th of june,  2nd show

there was a list of questions collected. is it clear who will ask them ? can we get some practical organizing done instead of bashing each other? we should try to make the open day as effective as possible.

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June 02, 2013, 08:10:19 PM
 #369

can we create a list of people who will attend to the open day ?

i will be there on wednesday, 5th of june,  2nd show

there was a list of questions collected. is it clear who will ask them ? can we get some practical organizing done instead of bashing each other? we should try to make the open day as effective as possible.



Yup, JohnyJ - confirmed, Daggeteo - confirmed and quizz master with about 4 sessions worth of questions...

Toksu - unlikely to attend.

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June 02, 2013, 08:10:25 PM
 #370

can we create a list of people who will attend to the open day ?

i will be there on wednesday, 5th of june,  2nd show

there was a list of questions collected. is it clear who will ask them ? can we get some practical organizing done instead of bashing each other? we should try to make the open day as effective as possible.



Where's that list of questions?

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June 02, 2013, 08:11:06 PM
 #371

can we create a list of people who will attend to the open day ?

i will be there on wednesday, 5th of june,  2nd show

there was a list of questions collected. is it clear who will ask them ? can we get some practical organizing done instead of bashing each other? we should try to make the open day as effective as possible.



Where's that list of questions?

Daggeteo!

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June 02, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
 #372

really don't see why you guys are freaking out about this -- knc miner has already put forth much more documentation and trust then any ASIC company thus far, yes, even more than avalon did when they started
Wink
Couldn't help myself on that - KnCMiner webpage states they are ACIS company:
Code:
Our custom Bitcoin ACIS miners will be available for orders soon.
Wink
How strange. They just fixed that word Wink
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June 02, 2013, 08:17:07 PM
 #373

defxor, johnyj, jonand, tosku, daggeteo were the original crew potentially going.

Defxor also had a friend who was an ex-ASIC designer he wanted to take I believe...

JohnyJ and Daggeteo el quizmaster (with friend) and 600watt have confirmed for sure.

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June 02, 2013, 08:31:00 PM
 #374

defxor, johnyj, jonand, tosku, daggeteo were the original crew potentially going.

Des for also had a friend who was an ex-ASIC designer he wanted to take I believe...

JohnyJ and Daggeteo el quizmaster (with friend) have confirmed for sure.

when will they attend?  i have already booked the flight. can´t change it. a lot of people doubt they can ship 28nm asic miners by september. i am no hardware expert. but i will be there. if anyone has a good strategy of what questions to ask to find out if their scheduling is realistic, i´d welcome assistance.
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June 02, 2013, 08:43:09 PM
 #375

defxor, johnyj, jonand, tosku, daggeteo were the original crew potentially going.

Des for also had a friend who was an ex-ASIC designer he wanted to take I believe...

JohnyJ and Daggeteo el quizmaster (with friend) have confirmed for sure.

when will they attend?  i have already booked the flight. can´t change it. a lot of people doubt they can ship 28nm asic miners by september. i am no hardware expert. but i will be there. if anyone has a good strategy of what questions to ask to find out if their scheduling is realistic, i´d welcome assistance.

JohnyJ; Wed afternoon session.

Daggeteo, to be confirmed. Think he's waiting on his friends availability.

PM them and knock heads.

As I said Defxor had a friend of relevant expertise. If you want to double check with him...

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June 03, 2013, 01:12:05 AM
 #376

http://opencores.org/shop,items

Why is KNCMiner paying Google to place an ad on ORSoC site? The product/company is beneficial to both parties. They don't need to spend a single cent on advertise on each other's sites.
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June 03, 2013, 01:18:12 AM
 #377

It's next to a Google ad, not a Google ad

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June 03, 2013, 01:20:39 AM
 #378

It's next to a Google ad, not a Google ad

Put your cursor on it and read the URL. It's via doubleclick. The ad next to it is a direct URL link.

Here's the link address: http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=Ch0CEz--rUdq9MO7HwQHlooH4B-3duLwDAAAQASCTj-8QUKnAorr-_____wFgyfaWiPCj7BLIAQKpAiPcGB1MQoQ-4AIAqAMByAOdBKoEaE_Qo87UJZrCOMOc680B6XB1v2mDle-SFTU1YV7u0_50gk5U2lV9z7a5MlDOFab3PmI1W_ab4IsTVoDakDm872giTQ9zaqdnDtsjBM1TXACIrU3DqgCbqaXC47h4ZHIh8QbZaRxf1lri4AQBoAYU&num=0&sig=AOD64_3BAzoTEN9w1mNt8fk04U38dcNnsQ&client=ca-pub-0097483751598630&adurl=http://www.kncminer.com&nm=1&nx=285&ny=28&mb=2&clkt=0&jca=3189
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June 03, 2013, 01:45:32 AM
 #379

They're likely using AdWord's to advertise their product on Bitcoin related websites.
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June 03, 2013, 02:01:25 AM
 #380

Sorry you're right, chrome on my phone lied


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