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Author Topic: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June  (Read 78367 times)
markm
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June 04, 2013, 12:37:08 PM
 #461

What risk are ORSoC making? Non by the sounds of it.  Its a straight business relationship that any of us could make.  Hand them a load of cash, and they will develop the ASIC.

So maybe our risk is mostly that we won't send enough cash, so ORSoC won't actually get engaged to do the project?

-MarkM-

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markm
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June 04, 2013, 12:38:26 PM
 #462

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?

http://orsoc.se/orsoc-and-kncminer-are-partnering-up-to-develop-bitcoin-mining-products/langswitch_lang/en/

So my take on it is they are no BFL, so even if they hadn't yet learned that the intensity of hashing is more intense than most apps one puts on chips, surely they will as soon as they read the horror stories, so even if the specs off the cuff before learning that were a little high they will ship something and it won't be a piece of crap.

And if KnC weren't lying to us, the specs actually increased after some looking into it had been done; if they looked into it surely they would have heard about this intense hashing being bitchingly intense, yet nonetheless they upped their estimated specs? Assuming the specs both times really were them not just KnC bullshitting.

If it really was ORSoC the specs came from it sounds like their initial guestimate was very conservative, which seems quite responsible.

Disclosure: I blew bitcoins on a Saturn order / pre-order a few hours ago... (Not a Jupiter; I am not *that* totally convinced/optimistic...)


Why would ORSoC need money up front?

They don't own the foundries, they probably have to buy wafers and tape-outs or masks or whatever like anyone else? (Wild guess; I really do not know.)

-MarkM-

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Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 12:51:23 PM
 #463

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

They are not building a miner from old parts they could have in stock or order. They are designing a 28nm asic from the ground up. Well from the last few necessary layers up. The base of the ASIC will already have been created. That still costs a few hundred thousand dollars to do dependant on complexity. That is the non recurring engineering cost associated with the project. That is why they, as anyone else in their position need to ask for funding. Yes they could do that privately with their known expertise and experience, but they've decided to crowdfund with the community. Why?...They are probably beginning to ask themselves that currently as well, but seeing as they come from an open source background and Bitcoin is supposedly meant to be decentralised and spread amongst a community itself i'd hazard, there is your answer...

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.





Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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markm
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June 04, 2013, 12:55:00 PM
 #464

Nice.

One thing I am curious about, since ORSoC seems to be "the" open source chip guys, is...

Will the chips be free open source Huh

-MarkM-

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Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 12:58:49 PM
 #465

Nice.

One thing I am curious about, since ORSoC seems to be "the" open source chip guys, is...

Will the chips be free open source Huh

-MarkM-


That I do doubt, as that is why a separate company is useful; intellectual property.

They want to make mining accessible for all and open up cheaper entry price points, renting hashrate, cheaper machines, etc. I doubt they'll be giving away their IP until they develop next gen.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
retro72
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June 04, 2013, 01:20:52 PM
 #466

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.
Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 01:35:00 PM
 #467

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.

Right, but they give you 7 days to pay and open day is tomorrow. So if you want to reserve a place in the interim it's of no risk to you. That's what i've done.

The only thing I can advise is to ring up and speak to your card company. Have it on loud speaker and record them. I fully take on board what you posted earlier, and the other day I've been looking into section 75 since. It's why I called my card company, they put me through to a fraud protection specialist spoke at length about section 75, and then repeated the query. To say they won't honour what someone in their fraud department has told me is crap. They are liable for what their own representatives advise their customers to do. I went through everything; payment via Paypal, September/October delivery. She told me I am covered, and they assume liability after Paypal's own 45 day buyer protection ends. I've done everything I can on my part, if they've misadvised me, they are entirely accountable.


Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
markm
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June 04, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
 #468

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much per unit VC funding would add to the price?

"All the market will bear", maybe? What is normal VC behavior in that kind of concern?

-MarkM-

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June 04, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
 #469

looking forward to this!
Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 01:44:22 PM
 #470

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how much per unit VC funding would add to the price?

"All the market will bear", maybe? What is normal VC behavior in that kind of concern?

-MarkM-


Unlikely you will get VC pledging funding that doesn't profiteer, and that's if they want to resell.

Some will want to develop tech for themselves first.

Yifu alludes to the fact some are (Bitcoin 2013), and that that is the most dangerous concern to Bitcoin now, ref. Yifu et al. sitting in a cab holding a wafer equal to 10% of the entire network hashrate (at that time, around feb). He said if they were starting (Feb) you won't know until August/Sept when they switch theirs on. Think about that before investing in anything you see currently.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
retro72
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June 04, 2013, 01:47:08 PM
 #471

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.

Right, but they give you 7 days to pay and open day is tomorrow. So if you want to reserve a place in the interim it's of no risk to you. That's what i've done.

The only thing I can advise is to ring up and speak to your card company. Have it on loud speaker and record them. I fully take on board what you posted earlier, and the other day I've been looking into section 75 since. It's why I called my card company, they put me through to a fraud protection specialist spoke at length about section 75, and then repeated the query. To say they won't honour what someone in their fraud department has told me is crap. They are liable for what their own representatives advise their customers to do. I went through everything; payment via Paypal, September/October delivery. She told me I am covered, and they assume liability after Paypal's own 45 day buyer protection ends. I've done everything I can on my part, if they've misadvised me, they are entirely accountable.



And I applaud you for doing so but some people here will not be as diligent. Markm has already admitted to paying with BTC. How many others will? Its not the canny ones I worry about. It's the guys still buying BFL preorders on ebay that are the problem.
markm
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June 04, 2013, 01:58:16 PM
 #472

I had been thinking about buying a pair of BFL 50 GH units.

I didn't buy a Jupiter instead, I bought a Saturn so I can still think about rolling the dice on one BFL 50 GH unit.

I am sitting here waiting for a DHL courier who has my packages from Blackarrow in his vehicle right now to knock on my door.

None of this touches my bitcoin hoard, I close my eyes grit my teeth and pretend I am selling/spending BBQcoin directly when I spend bitcoins I sold millions of CPU-mined BBQcoins for, otherwise I'd never get to spend my windfall BBQcoins as they'd get stuck in bitcoin form every time I tried to turn them into spendable form.

So basically I just gambled less than one million of many millions of (CPU-mined!) BBQcoins on this. And my actual bitcoin hoard is larger not smaller, because quite a few millions of BBQcoins did get stuck in bitcoin form. Smiley

Perspective. Smiley

-MarkM-

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Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 02:15:31 PM
 #473

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.

Right, but they give you 7 days to pay and open day is tomorrow. So if you want to reserve a place in the interim it's of no risk to you. That's what i've done.

The only thing I can advise is to ring up and speak to your card company. Have it on loud speaker and record them. I fully take on board what you posted earlier, and the other day I've been looking into section 75 since. It's why I called my card company, they put me through to a fraud protection specialist spoke at length about section 75, and then repeated the query. To say they won't honour what someone in their fraud department has told me is crap. They are liable for what their own representatives advise their customers to do. I went through everything; payment via Paypal, September/October delivery. She told me I am covered, and they assume liability after Paypal's own 45 day buyer protection ends. I've done everything I can on my part, if they've misadvised me, they are entirely accountable.



And I applaud you for doing so but some people here will not be as diligent. Markm has already admitted to paying with BTC. How many others will? Its not the canny ones I worry about. It's the guys still buying BFL preorders on ebay that are the problem.

I agree, eBay is full of scams, Bitcoin pre-orders are the least of their worry. The obvious ones are the Chinese listings that request 14 days before they can send items. That's enough time to receive payment and disappear.

The reason the Bitcoin ones are lucrative, are that most popular mining devices (or multiple mining devices listed), that end up over $10k cannot be purchased by Paypal, so bye bye money!

The only reason I labour the ccard point is to encourage people to get off their own arses and do some legwork themselves to determine whether this investment can be made safer for them. They won't though, people are inherently lazy and don't value their money enough to spend an hour of their time talking things through with card companies they pay large commissions to carry their plastic around in their pockets. It's easier to do no due diligence and b*tch about it on a forum, hoping someone else will do the legwork for them, or a pessimist, or someone hoping to see the comapny fail agrees with them.

No one is responsible for your actions, including doing your own research, other than yourself!

I agree many things can go wrong, but I believe KnC and ORSoC want to do this, as much for themselves as anyone else, and most importantly have the ability, moreso than I see elsewhere. Although tthe Avalon DIYers, such as Klondike haven't failed to impress me. I knew they would, and I can't wait to see some crazy DIY casing, like part MAME arcade cabinet, part bitcoin mining machine - both utilising the redundant space of the cabinet and the limited processing requirements of oldskool arcade roms. F**k it, I might do that!!

Yes please:


Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
retro72
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June 04, 2013, 02:41:08 PM
 #474

I had been thinking about buying a pair of BFL 50 GH units.

I didn't buy a Jupiter instead, I bought a Saturn so I can still think about rolling the dice on one BFL 50 GH unit.

I am sitting here waiting for a DHL courier who has my packages from Blackarrow in his vehicle right now to knock on my door.

None of this touches my bitcoin hoard, I close my eyes grit my teeth and pretend I am selling/spending BBQcoin directly when I spend bitcoins I sold millions of CPU-mined BBQcoins for, otherwise I'd never get to spend my windfall BBQcoins as they'd get stuck in bitcoin form every time I tried to turn them into spendable form.

So basically I just gambled less than one million of many millions of BBQcoins on this. And my actual bitcoin hoard is larger not smaller, because quite a few millions of BBQcoins did get stuck in bitcoin form. Smiley

Perspective. Smiley

-MarkM-


Fair Play. Sounds like you done good.

I would also agree with Bitcoinorama. Do your research people. Make sure you're covered.

Personally I'm going to wait. I don't need the stress. If they produce an asic I may buy a few. The way I see it, as the diff goes up the price will come down. I may have to buy more asics in the future to achieve the same income but with more competition and the resultant reduction in price my outlay will probably similar to what I am willing to spend now. I just won't have to lie awake worrying about it.

I may have yo buy 10 asics to achieve what 4 will do now but the price should adjust to reflect that, if not there really isn't much of a future for the industry as I don't think there's a stomach for 2+ years ROI in this game.
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June 04, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
 #475

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.

Right, but they give you 7 days to pay and open day is tomorrow. So if you want to reserve a place in the interim it's of no risk to you. That's what i've done.

The only thing I can advise is to ring up and speak to your card company. Have it on loud speaker and record them. I fully take on board what you posted earlier, and the other day I've been looking into section 75 since. It's why I called my card company, they put me through to a fraud protection specialist spoke at length about section 75, and then repeated the query. To say they won't honour what someone in their fraud department has told me is crap. They are liable for what their own representatives advise their customers to do. I went through everything; payment via Paypal, September/October delivery. She told me I am covered, and they assume liability after Paypal's own 45 day buyer protection ends. I've done everything I can on my part, if they've misadvised me, they are entirely accountable.



And I applaud you for doing so but some people here will not be as diligent. Markm has already admitted to paying with BTC. How many others will? Its not the canny ones I worry about. It's the guys still buying BFL preorders on ebay that are the problem.

I agree, eBay is full of scams, Bitcoin pre-orders are the least of their worry. The obvious ones are the Chinese listings that request 14 days before they can send items. That's enough time to receive payment and disappear.

The reason the Bitcoin ones are lucrative, are that most popular mining devices (or multiple mining devices listed), that end up over $10k cannot be purchased by Paypal, so bye bye money!

The only reason I labour the ccard point is to encourage people to get off their own arses and do some legwork themselves to determine whether this investment can be made safer for them. They won't though, people are inherently lazy and don't value their money enough to spend an hour of their time talking things through with card companies they pay large commissions to carry their plastic around in their pockets. It's easier to do no due diligence and b*tch about it on a forum, hoping someone else will do the legwork for them, or a pessimist, or someone hoping to see the comapny fail agrees with them.

No one is responsible for your actions, including doing your own research, other than yourself!

I agree many things can go wrong, but I believe KnC and ORSoC want to do this, as much for themselves as anyone else, and most importantly have the ability, moreso than I see elsewhere. Although tthe Avalon DIYers, such as Klondike haven't failed to impress me. I knew they would, and I can't wait to see some crazy DIY casing, like part MAME arcade cabinet, part bitcoin mining machine - both utilising the redundant space of the cabinet and the limited processing requirements of oldskool arcade roms. F**k it, I might do that!!

Yes please:



+1
i completly agree with you. I have done my homework and people saying me that i want to make money with preorders without having work with it.
i have called for example barclaycard 2 weeks ago, made vat payment searches and  had written many mails  with sam...etc...
and at the end, when i am posting something, they call me spamer, scummer and a fucker  
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June 04, 2013, 03:47:06 PM
 #476

Have ORSoC made any public statements over this?
Why would ORSoC need money up front?

Yes! On ORSoC's own website a month ago they had a press release, KnCminer appears in a banner directly at the top of their Opencores.org website and forum homepage, three of the head guys at ORSoC (CEO; Johan Rilegård, CTO; Marcus Erlandsson, and Michael Unnebäck; FPGA/ASIC specialist at ORSoC) are joint directors with Sam and Andreas in KnCminer, and in their video yesterday; Marcus Erlandsson ORSoC's; Chief Technology Officer is the one demonstrating the FPGA with Sam.

If you don't know any of that you really shouldn't be commenting in the manner you have at this stage!! It's been public information that you have chosen to ignore or haven't looked into, and you are spreading unnecessary doubt due to being ill-informed through your own choice.


This is all true and has been pointed out several times in this and other threads. But it still does beg the question. Why do they need us to fund this? With these esteemed gentleman from Orsoc on board surely funding wouldn't be a problem.

With the best will in the world companies fail. They may not be scammers but they could just as easily fail. Run out of money and fail. As long as they are not a part of Orsoc they can cut that rope and cast them adrift. Yes they would take PR flack for a while but so what? Most of their customers probably are in no way related to bitcoin. They'll keep trading with them as long as they provide a service they need. I've seen this plenty of times. The "just don't do it to me" attitude.

Sir Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Donald Trump and plenty other other business "giants" had failed ventures in the past and look where they are today. Its par for the course. Nobody cares. The only people that do are the ones that lose money.

Banks and VC's factor the risk into their investments and require a much higher burden of proof then some of us here seem to. You wouldn't get a red cent from a VC with that video demo let me tell you, yet some people here are handing over their credit card details.

Right, but they give you 7 days to pay and open day is tomorrow. So if you want to reserve a place in the interim it's of no risk to you. That's what i've done.

The only thing I can advise is to ring up and speak to your card company. Have it on loud speaker and record them. I fully take on board what you posted earlier, and the other day I've been looking into section 75 since. It's why I called my card company, they put me through to a fraud protection specialist spoke at length about section 75, and then repeated the query. To say they won't honour what someone in their fraud department has told me is crap. They are liable for what their own representatives advise their customers to do. I went through everything; payment via Paypal, September/October delivery. She told me I am covered, and they assume liability after Paypal's own 45 day buyer protection ends. I've done everything I can on my part, if they've misadvised me, they are entirely accountable.




STOP WITH SECTION 75. YOU ARE NOT COVERED.


Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

KNCMINER binds you as a BUSINESS, NOT a consumer.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
glowkeeper
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June 04, 2013, 03:50:38 PM
 #477

Personally I'm going to wait. I don't need the stress. If they produce an asic I may buy a few. The way I see it, as the diff goes up the price will come down. I may have to buy more asics in the future to achieve the same income but with more competition and the resultant reduction in price my outlay will probably similar to what I am willing to spend now. I just won't have to lie awake worrying about it.

I may have yo buy 10 asics to achieve what 4 will do now but the price should adjust to reflect that, if not there really isn't much of a future for the industry as I don't think there's a stomach for 2+ years ROI in this game.

+1. If one's in it for the long game, then there's absolutely no need to take this gamble.....
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June 04, 2013, 04:08:25 PM
 #478

I don't believe for second they are scammers but it's hard to believe they'll deliver when they said they would. But again if they do, it's a good deal, not as good as Avalon 1 but good.

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work  Grin

Hell, put wheels on it and it'll look like a Mars Rover named Hope.
Bitcoinorama
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June 04, 2013, 04:14:01 PM
 #479

I don't believe for second they are scammers but it's hard to believe they'll deliver when they said they would. But again if they do, it's a good deal, not as good as Avalon 1 but good.

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work  Grin

Hell, put wheels on it and it'll look like a Mars Rover named Hope.

New video BTW; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-240FvDSJs&feature=youtu.be

...and another for Phin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwinFP8_qIM

(Ironically the second video was amongst the recommended videos in the Youtube sidebar...Tongue)

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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June 04, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
 #480

I don't believe for second they are scammers but it's hard to believe they'll deliver when they said they would. But again if they do, it's a good deal, not as good as Avalon 1 but good.

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work  Grin

Hell, put wheels on it and it'll look like a Mars Rover named Hope.

New video BTW; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-240FvDSJs&feature=youtu.be

...and another for Phin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwinFP8_qIM

(Ironically the second video was amongst the recommended videos in the Youtube sidebar...Tongue)

Did you check with Barclay's whether you were protected as a business buyer? I think you need a business card (no pun intended).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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