BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[sunk818]

I believe (knock-on-wood) we fixed all remaining pog complaints in the next leisure version.

I know people don't say it enough: thanks for all your and MIP's hard work refining PoG.


Getting 50% or more saying tithe too high. Someone complained they didn't get max tithe amount in with auto tithe, but if everyone's tithe is the same reduced amount, I don't see the problem... but anyway, let's see how 1.1.9.5 works out. I was okay with tithing whole integers or steps of 0.25

Code:

"Total Legal Tithes Amount": 189.16899999,
  "Total Illegal Tithes Amount": 276.21699998,
  "Total Legal Tithe Count": 20,
  "Total Illegal Tithe Count": 29

[capulo]

i was complaining now it is tithing almost max, but it is creating very small new piles when tithing, i have there many 0.5-1.5 bbp piles
yesterday still only about every second tithe was counted in payout
there are still 0/offline txs
will see

[sunk818]

i was complaining now it is tithing almost max, but it is creating very small new piles when tithing, i have there many 0.5-1.5 bbp piles
yesterday still only about every second tithe was counted in payout
there are still 0/offline txs
will see

I'm not programmer and I don't how to read most of the code... but I'm going to guess that when you check PoG Tithe? you have value that can tithe, but when it is added as tx to next block, PoG difficulty went up slightly. So, now, your max tithe is "illegal" in the next block. Even if I tithe manually max tithe and use InstantSend, maybe we still run into this issue. I rather submit smaller auto tithe (like 90% of max tithe) than not have it accepted.

[capulo]

pogaudit showing half of tithes are "tithe too high", all are legal

[afeno]

What is the actual reward distribution now that we have POG in place?

This is what I found in the official BBP webpage but POG is not listed.

10% Charity
5% IT
2.5% PR (Public Relation campaigns)
2.5% P2P (Orphan Letter Writing, Pay To Preach, Pay to be a Priest, FAQ Writers, Social Media)
38.5% Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC) [Cancer Research]
3% Proof of Work (POW)
38.5% Masternodes (Sanctuaries)

Can someone clarify how are the coins distributed?

Thank you!

[MIP]

BiblePay - 1.1.9.5b
Leisure Upgrade

- When tithing from the rpc 'tithe' command, or from the UI send coins page, choose the youngest coin for the difficulty level
- Add best coin age and amount to 'titheinfo'
- In the rpc tithe and in the UI send coins page tithe action, check the tithe conditions first and cancel the transaction gracefully and notify the user (this prevents the orphaned transactions in the transaction list)
- Add ability to remove swear words from peoples nicknames at the spork level
- Modify GetGithubVersion to compare to the last Mandatory release (preventing false upgrade notifications in prod)
- In the miner, verify the tithe will meet the tithe conditions before tithing, and use the youngest coin
- Add 'exec mypogaudit' rpc report.  This report shows the tithes you
made in the last 205 blocks, and the status and corresponding error
code, and the sum of the legal vs illegal tithes and counts.  Optionally
you may enter a starting block number (and the report will descend from
that block).

MacOS version and Ubuntu PPAs ready.

[bible_pay]

What is the actual reward distribution now that we have POG in place?

This is what I found in the official BBP webpage but POG is not listed.

10% Charity
5% IT
2.5% PR (Public Relation campaigns)
2.5% P2P (Orphan Letter Writing, Pay To Preach, Pay to be a Priest, FAQ Writers, Social Media)
38.5% Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC) [Cancer Research]
3% Proof of Work (POW)
38.5% Masternodes (Sanctuaries)

Can someone clarify how are the coins distributed?

Thank you!

Here you go:

https://wiki.biblepay.org/Economics

[bible_pay]

pogaudit showing half of tithes are "tithe too high", all are legal

You mean half are showing as Illegal, and Half are legal.  The 1's mean they were legal.

OK, lets see how much an improvement we have in 1195 over a 24 hour period.

[bible_pay]

i was complaining now it is tithing almost max, but it is creating very small new piles when tithing, i have there many 0.5-1.5 bbp piles
yesterday still only about every second tithe was counted in payout
there are still 0/offline txs
will see

I'm not programmer and I don't how to read most of the code... but I'm going to guess that when you check PoG Tithe? you have value that can tithe, but when it is added as tx to next block, PoG difficulty went up slightly. So, now, your max tithe is "illegal" in the next block. Even if I tithe manually max tithe and use InstantSend, maybe we still run into this issue. I rather submit smaller auto tithe (like 90% of max tithe) than not have it accepted.

No thats not it - thats the first thing I designed into POG (as a requirement).
The difficulty level is actually set 4 blocks prior, and is good for 4 blocks.  So lets say we are working on block 100,000:
Diff is 2000; max tithe amount is 9.50.

In blocks 100,000 through 100,001 we honor tithes up to 9.50.

So thats not the reason for inducting an illegal tithe.

I thought it was simply .01 rounding when looking at 50 the other night (hence the reason we made the miner go down by .01 bbp in 1193).  But I do see today, in my personal tithing history over the last 205 blocks, I tithed by about .03 bbp too much (I have 30% bad tithes, 70% good tithes).  Note that fortunately since the pog pool pays out 90K~ or so per day everyone is still profitable in this playground.

But yes, we will get to the bottom of this to see why we have 30-50% illegal going into the report.

Looking at my report, it appears 90% of my errors are Legal=-3 (tithe_too_high) - this is the lions share of the problem.  The other 2 small issues we can deal with later.

Let me take a look at the blocks and see what could be causing this client to send out a tx that is .03 bbp too much.  One thing we should add to this report is the actual tithe parameters for the block next to the error- ill do that now.

EDIT 2:  On Capulos issue, bbp creating tiny < 1 bbp new pog denoms, that is actually not really a bug, I think its just a labeling issue.  When you receive change for a 9.50 tithe that came from a 10,000 bbp coin, we are sending the .6905 bbp back to "TITHES" and the 9900.0010 back to "change".  We really should send the TITHES change back to TITHES - but in the mean time this means you are getting the correct pog denoms back and they are working.  Another words we are just left with a nuisance of a lot of change that we need to consolidate manually once every couple of weeks.  This is another thing we could automate later ( we could say, exec consolidate, and it makes everything less than 1 bbp into one banknote for you automatically).

[sunk818]

Thanks for looking into TITHES_TOO_HIGH.

This is another thing we could automate later ( we could say, exec consolidate, and it makes everything less than 1 bbp into one banknote for you automatically).

If output of .001 goes to tithes and leftover change goes to tithes, then you can consolidate from the tithe addresses. I guess I wouldn't care if BBP consolidated outside of tithe address, but for those using privatesend or keeping separate addresses for accounting reasons, they might care.

LOL, are you bankrolling Orphan & PoDs account for PoG?

http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/20d97c8f9df27b9660125137f3d594a618fa576854cb89a0d34ba97842e389f2
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435

[bible_pay]

Thanks for looking into TITHES_TOO_HIGH.

This is another thing we could automate later ( we could say, exec consolidate, and it makes everything less than 1 bbp into one banknote for you automatically).

If output of .001 goes to tithes and leftover change goes to tithes, then you can consolidate from the tithe addresses. I guess I wouldn't care if BBP consolidated outside of tithe address, but for those using privatesend or keeping separate addresses for accounting reasons, they might care.

LOL, are you bankrolling Orphan & PoDs account for PoG?

http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/20d97c8f9df27b9660125137f3d594a618fa576854cb89a0d34ba97842e389f2
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435

I was just using the bankroll command on the foundation wallet so we can liquidate it to SX in a few days (as all these tiny transactions will make too big of a transaction to be able to send it out).

[bible_pay]

Thanks for looking into TITHES_TOO_HIGH.

This is another thing we could automate later ( we could say, exec consolidate, and it makes everything less than 1 bbp into one banknote for you automatically).

If output of .001 goes to tithes and leftover change goes to tithes, then you can consolidate from the tithe addresses. I guess I wouldn't care if BBP consolidated outside of tithe address, but for those using privatesend or keeping separate addresses for accounting reasons, they might care.

LOL, are you bankrolling Orphan & PoDs account for PoG?

http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/20d97c8f9df27b9660125137f3d594a618fa576854cb89a0d34ba97842e389f2
http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/6081d58f2f486178656d100358863c0e4b1ed3131b4fa035897a82c36eca3435

Just to give me a second witness, if you look through your illegal tithes for the day, are they all illegal by only .05 bbp or less?

[sunk818]

Just to give me a second witness, if you look through your illegal tithes for the day, are they all illegal by only .05 bbp or less?

I haven't checked recently, but they were off only by a little bit. 0.05 BBP is close. I'll check in 8 hours when I think my BBP matures again.

Have you noticed if the tithe is >= 9.5 then your change is between 1-2 BBP. If tithe is <9.5, then change is <1 BBP? 

[bible_pay]

Just to give me a second witness, if you look through your illegal tithes for the day, are they all illegal by only .05 bbp or less?

I haven't checked recently, but they were off only by a little bit. 0.05 BBP is close. I'll check in 8 hours when I think my BBP matures again.

Have you noticed if the tithe is >= 9.5 then your change is between 1-2 BBP. If tithe is <9.5, then change is <1 BBP?  

So I think I see the reason the tithes are off by a few cents.  It appears the miner thread needs to call and ensure the pogpool is updated right before it tithes - Im working on adding a call and a buffer option to the for the next version.

On the change, the actual change amount doesn't really have a relationship to the amount tithed it has more to do with what coin it chose to tithe with and how much change it would receive when it breaks the coin.  When it breaks the coin, it subtracts the denominated amount from the change and makes two transactions - one denominated and one change.  The denominated should go to "TITHES" but its currently going to Change (to me that is the only issue - the cosmetic display problem).

EDIT: Nvm on the cosmetic issue; fixed; now both returns go to TITHES and I was able to test it in debug and it works...

[bible_pay]

On the idea about 'exec consolidate' to consolidate change, I was thinking we might not need it because 'exec bankroll' virtually does the same thing.  If a user runs exec bankroll the same process will sweep the change into a larger bank note.

Skipping this idea.

[capulo]

pogaudit showing half of tithes are "tithe too high", all are legal

You mean half are showing as Illegal, and Half are legal.  The 1's mean they were legal.

OK, lets see how much an improvement we have in 1195 over a 24 hour period.

yes, in summary there are as illegal , but i check only rows and everywhere was legal: 1 or legal: -3 so i think they was all legal
now i have 32 legal, 9 illegal - it is getting better

[capulo]

i was complaining now it is tithing almost max, but it is creating very small new piles when tithing, i have there many 0.5-1.5 bbp piles
yesterday still only about every second tithe was counted in payout
there are still 0/offline txs
will see

I'm not programmer and I don't how to read most of the code... but I'm going to guess that when you check PoG Tithe? you have value that can tithe, but when it is added as tx to next block, PoG difficulty went up slightly. So, now, your max tithe is "illegal" in the next block. Even if I tithe manually max tithe and use InstantSend, maybe we still run into this issue. I rather submit smaller auto tithe (like 90% of max tithe) than not have it accepted.

No thats not it - thats the first thing I designed into POG (as a requirement).
The difficulty level is actually set 4 blocks prior, and is good for 4 blocks.  So lets say we are working on block 100,000:
Diff is 2000; max tithe amount is 9.50.

In blocks 100,000 through 100,001 we honor tithes up to 9.50.

So thats not the reason for inducting an illegal tithe.

I thought it was simply .01 rounding when looking at 50 the other night (hence the reason we made the miner go down by .01 bbp in 1193).  But I do see today, in my personal tithing history over the last 205 blocks, I tithed by about .03 bbp too much (I have 30% bad tithes, 70% good tithes).  Note that fortunately since the pog pool pays out 90K~ or so per day everyone is still profitable in this playground.

But yes, we will get to the bottom of this to see why we have 30-50% illegal going into the report.

Looking at my report, it appears 90% of my errors are Legal=-3 (tithe_too_high) - this is the lions share of the problem.  The other 2 small issues we can deal with later.

Let me take a look at the blocks and see what could be causing this client to send out a tx that is .03 bbp too much.  One thing we should add to this report is the actual tithe parameters for the block next to the error- ill do that now.

EDIT 2:  On Capulos issue, bbp creating tiny < 1 bbp new pog denoms, that is actually not really a bug, I think its just a labeling issue.  When you receive change for a 9.50 tithe that came from a 10,000 bbp coin, we are sending the .6905 bbp back to "TITHES" and the 9900.0010 back to "change".  We really should send the TITHES change back to TITHES - but in the mean time this means you are getting the correct pog denoms back and they are working.  Another words we are just left with a nuisance of a lot of change that we need to consolidate manually once every couple of weeks.  This is another thing we could automate later ( we could say, exec consolidate, and it makes everything less than 1 bbp into one banknote for you automatically).

i have also txs with >1bpp back to tithes
lowest pile is 0.49990180 and highest 1.47982520. looks like  everything is +0.5bbp

[sunk818]

i have also txs with >1bpp back to tithes
lowest pile is 0.49990180 and highest 1.47982520. looks like  everything is +0.5bbp

You seem to understand what I was saying. Maybe Rob didn't understand. It is not a big deal, but I think if you get change it should be consistent right? Less than 1 BBP? I don't know, I was thinking maybe one time you need min coin value 1899 and because you got too much change, your tithe was 1898, so you can not tithe. I know, silly worry...

On the idea about 'exec consolidate' to consolidate change, I was thinking we might not need it because 'exec bankroll' virtually does the same thing.  If a user runs exec bankroll the same process will sweep the change into a larger bank note.

Skipping this idea.

Understandable. Still ran into some issues trying to bankroll. Even though I had enough non-tithe and non-PoDC to create my denominations, the PoDC balance gave the unable to bankroll error. You should be able to bankroll even if PoDC balance exists without touching PoDC funds. Even if PoDC goes away, those that migrate from PoDC to PoG, potentially have the same issue. They'd need to send their PoDC balance to a non-tithe and non-PoDC address and do the exec bankroll from there.

[bible_pay]

i have also txs with >1bpp back to tithes
lowest pile is 0.49990180 and highest 1.47982520. looks like  everything is +0.5bbp

You seem to understand what I was saying. Maybe Rob didn't understand. It is not a big deal, but I think if you get change it should be consistent right? Less than 1 BBP? I don't know, I was thinking maybe one time you need min coin value 1899 and because you got too much change, your tithe was 1898, so you can not tithe. I know, silly worry...

On the idea about 'exec consolidate' to consolidate change, I was thinking we might not need it because 'exec bankroll' virtually does the same thing.  If a user runs exec bankroll the same process will sweep the change into a larger bank note.

Skipping this idea.

Understandable. Still ran into some issues trying to bankroll. Even though I had enough non-tithe and non-PoDC to create my denominations, the PoDC balance gave the unable to bankroll error. You should be able to bankroll even if PoDC balance exists without touching PoDC funds. Even if PoDC goes away, those that migrate from PoDC to PoG, potentially have the same issue. They'd need to send their PoDC balance to a non-tithe and non-PoDC address and do the exec bankroll from there.

What is it that I'm not understanding - you seem to be saying the change is inconsistent, and I seem to be saying the change is based on the leftover amount after a denominated change amount (posted above) - but for some reason you quoted Capulo and said the same complaint over.  Its usually best in this situation to enter a github issue with the exact transaction ID so we can explain why you received that amount.

Regarding PODC, its PODC updates that skips pog denominated funds in PODC updates.  Not POGs exec bankroll that skips PODC update funds.    POG exec bankroll just skips locked and POG denominated amounts.

[sunk818]

i have also txs with >1bpp back to tithes
lowest pile is 0.49990180 and highest 1.47982520. looks like  everything is +0.5bbp

You seem to understand what I was saying. Maybe Rob didn't understand. It is not a big deal, but I think if you get change it should be consistent right? Less than 1 BBP? I don't know, I was thinking maybe one time you need min coin value 1899 and because you got too much change, your tithe was 1898, so you can not tithe. I know, silly worry...

On the idea about 'exec consolidate' to consolidate change, I was thinking we might not need it because 'exec bankroll' virtually does the same thing.  If a user runs exec bankroll the same process will sweep the change into a larger bank note.

Skipping this idea.

Understandable. Still ran into some issues trying to bankroll. Even though I had enough non-tithe and non-PoDC to create my denominations, the PoDC balance gave the unable to bankroll error. You should be able to bankroll even if PoDC balance exists without touching PoDC funds. Even if PoDC goes away, those that migrate from PoDC to PoG, potentially have the same issue. They'd need to send their PoDC balance to a non-tithe and non-PoDC address and do the exec bankroll from there.

What is it that I'm not understanding - you seem to be saying the change is inconsistent, and I seem to be saying the change is based on the leftover amount after a denominated change amount (posted above) - but for some reason you quoted Capulo and said the same complaint over.  Its usually best in this situation to enter a github issue with the exact transaction ID so we can explain why you received that amount.

Regarding PODC, its PODC updates that skips pog denominated funds in PODC updates.  Not POGs exec bankroll that skips PODC update funds.    POG exec bankroll just skips locked and POG denominated amounts.

Sorry, my mistake. I finally found a case where my hypothesis was not correct:

http://explorer.biblepay.org/tx/1756b896769f70b0f0c98b8b72357a82bed6bbb13965230d79b6b8f9aa16bbe7

BBP tithe > 9.5 BBP but change is <1 BBP.

It is quirky the range goes somewhere between 0 to 2, but its not a bug. I would think change would be 0 to 1, but maybe that's just an incorrect assumption.