[ANN] [MΣC] Megacoin.co.nz - Forum, Github, Website Now in 18 Languages

[raveneye]

I will just repost some of my findings from the multipool thread from yesterday.

As I understand it, the algorithm works like this:
Next Diff = (Average Diff over the last N blocks) * (150 seconds) * N / (Actual Seconds for last N blocks)
where N is a number between 144 and 4032.
The "clever" part is that N gets smaller when the diff changes quickly and N gets larger when the diff is stable.  The idea would be that when there is a quick change in hash rate, it reacts quickly.  When the hash rate is stable, it reacts slowly.

The problem is the first part of the algorithm has momentum.  This is one of the things that caused so much trouble with the transition at block 42,000.  Even after the MP switched off around block 42130, the difficulty kept climbing for about 70 more blocks (which took 2 days).

For example, if N is 144 and the coin-hoppers mine a fast 50 coins and switch off the coin, those coins will still be counted in the average used for the next difficulty while the faithful have to grind on 94 coins themselves.

The change in direction will also increase N, causing the permitted change to be smaller, and allowing those 50 fast-mined coins to linger even longer, forcing the faithful miners to spend even more time trying to create even more blocks necessary to bring difficulty back down.

The idea was clever, but not practically applied.  If instead of using block counts for PastBlockMin and PastBlockMax, he had used Time (i.e. PastSecondsMin and PastSecondsMax), then used blocks/hour instead of hours (seconds) per block for the calculation. That way if the coin slows down to 2-4 blocks per hour, it doesn't take days of grinding to get the 50-100 blocks needed to push the fast blocks out of the window of consideration.

Hopefully, I am wrong and it stays profitable to mine for the faithful and keeps producing blocks.  Unfortunately, I think that every time it gets marginally profitable to mine, MP, MC and CC will slap it down and create problem like it had with block 42,000 where transactions don't confirm and 2 guys are stuck mining it for days waiting for it to recover, only to get slapped down and have to repeat the cycle.

To give some real numbers, last night, when middlecoin, multipool, and coinchoose were off mec, it took 16 hours to generate 60 blocks, about half of what would be required to push fast block out of the minimum 144  block consideration window.  That was with a descent profitability.  If profitability drops to a very undesirable level, like around block 42159-42219, mining 60 blocks took 3.5 days.

[ethought]

There is potentially some good news coming for Megacoin (not related to the hard fork) - will wait until it is confirmed to announce..  

[vtr99]

If you believe this to be true, why waste your time here?

I for one appreciate everyone's input, positive or negative. If this is a problem, what's wrong with pointing it out?
And if he's wrong, I'd like to hear why.

At this point no one can prove him right or wrong! So I'm sure Kimoto is going to run back to the drawing board and rethink this entire update because raveneye has doubts? Very, very funny.    My question is, pointing out what? You would like to hear why what? Where are the specifics? Personally I think you would have to be, well I won't resort to name calling...  But why would you want to hear negative comments unless someone has some hard facts to present.  

Anyone who has doubts, please sell your MEC NOW!   Or I will be happy to trade mining hardware, gaming systems, laptops, or whatever for your MEC.

[shellbunner]

There is potentially some good news coming for Megacoin (not related to the hard fork) - will wait until it is confirmed to announce..  

Oooooooh! Tell me please!!!!

[klee]

If you believe this to be true, why waste your time here?

Because I want mec to be a profitable coin to mine, and I would like to see a lot of these smaller coins succeed.
When I found and reported a bug with the wdc retarget change at block 600,000, the dev was able to confirm it, fix it, test it, and deploy it before it became a disaster.  More people looking at these changes before they go into effect is a good thing for the coin's evolution.
By your response, I assume you have not examined or even questioned how this update will work?

WDC is a basket case, and I'm sure they need your help.  

If you really believe Kimoto doesn't know what he's doing, then your point is moot, isn't it? If you are able to just look at the code and tell us the exact results, you are way sharper than any programmer, developer, or rocket engine scientist I've ever met.   I don't believe anything other than a smoke test will give absolute confirmation. I believe Kimoto said more than once that he has done extensive testing... I think it's safe to say that no one else knows exactly how this update will work.

If you are so brilliant, please share with us any better coin you have developed?

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

[A L I E N]

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

You already stated that you sold all your MEC so go troll elsewhere..

[klee]

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

You already stated that you sold all your MEC so go troll elsewhere..

Truth hurts - go on worship your MegaGod you can always ignore me I don't give a shit.
 

[kriwest]

Good.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276455.msg3140893#msg3140893

[bholzer]

I will just repost some of my findings from the multipool thread from yesterday.

As I understand it, the algorithm works like this:
Next Diff = (Average Diff over the last N blocks) * (150 seconds) * N / (Actual Seconds for last N blocks)
where N is a number between 144 and 4032.
The "clever" part is that N gets smaller when the diff changes quickly and N gets larger when the diff is stable.  The idea would be that when there is a quick change in hash rate, it reacts quickly.  When the hash rate is stable, it reacts slowly.

The problem is the first part of the algorithm has momentum.  This is one of the things that caused so much trouble with the transition at block 42,000.  Even after the MP switched off around block 42130, the difficulty kept climbing for about 70 more blocks (which took 2 days).

For example, if N is 144 and the coin-hoppers mine a fast 50 coins and switch off the coin, those coins will still be counted in the average used for the next difficulty while the faithful have to grind on 94 coins themselves.

The change in direction will also increase N, causing the permitted change to be smaller, and allowing those 50 fast-mined coins to linger even longer, forcing the faithful miners to spend even more time trying to create even more blocks necessary to bring difficulty back down.

The idea was clever, but not practically applied.  If instead of using block counts for PastBlockMin and PastBlockMax, he had used Time (i.e. PastSecondsMin and PastSecondsMax), then used blocks/hour instead of hours (seconds) per block for the calculation. That way if the coin slows down to 2-4 blocks per hour, it doesn't take days of grinding to get the 50-100 blocks needed to push the fast blocks out of the window of consideration.

Hopefully, I am wrong and it stays profitable to mine for the faithful and keeps producing blocks.  Unfortunately, I think that every time it gets marginally profitable to mine, MP, MC and CC will slap it down and create problem like it had with block 42,000 where transactions don't confirm and 2 guys are stuck mining it for days waiting for it to recover, only to get slapped down and have to repeat the cycle.

To give some real numbers, last night, when middlecoin, multipool, and coinchoose were off mec, it took 16 hours to generate 60 blocks, about half of what would be required to push fast block out of the minimum 144  block consideration window.  That was with a descent profitability.  If profitability drops to a very undesirable level, like around block 42159-42219, mining 60 blocks took 3.5 days.

Your math is off if that's the conclusion you are coming to. Obviously we'll see how it plays out in production...but to me it seems like a smart formula that will adapt well while also keeping things more consistent and under control. There might be some slow blocks still in there...but as soon as they're found the difficulty will start to plunge rapidly.

[bholzer]

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

You already stated that you sold all your MEC so go troll elsewhere..

Truth hurts - go on worship your MegaGod you can always ignore me I don't give a shit.
 

My guess is you're starting to regret your foolish decision -- why else would you be here? A lot of immaturity in the crypto world, that's for sure.

[sharknutzz]

Shifting gears back to immaturity for the next few hundred blocks, OK! 

I'll be on the lookout for things that may spur my immaturity level.  Admittedly, it doesn't take much, but it will have to be better than "Avast hates MEC you jerks" this time around... 

Get some!

 

[sharknutzz]

Oh I almost forgot to mention, sorry vtr99 for referring to you as v9t9 yesterday.  For some reason, your nick name reminds me of an emulator for my very first home PC  (go ahead....call sharknutzz a nerd, it's OK...)

http://eswartz.github.io/emul/

So if I get you confused with an emulator again in the future, this is the reason 

[vtr99]

Oh I almost forgot to mention, sorry vtr99 for referring to you as v9t9 yesterday.  For some reason, your nick name reminds me of an emulator for my very first home PC  (go ahead....call sharknutzz a nerd, it's OK...)

http://eswartz.github.io/emul/

So if I get you confused with an emulator again in the future, this is the reason 

Thought it was just a typo, but that's ok, I'm a big fan of emulators too... I was going to call myself Neo-RAGEx, but didn't want everyone to think I was pissed off geek. 

I go by V12AMG in ethought's pool, so it can be confusing. 

[vtr99]

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

You already stated that you sold all your MEC so go troll elsewhere..

Truth hurts - go on worship your MegaGod you can always ignore me I don't give a shit.
 

My guess is you're starting to regret your foolish decision -- why else would you be here? A lot of immaturity in the crypto world, that's for sure.

I think you nailed it. Obviously some crypto-coin jealousy going on here. Why else would people who clearly have no interest in Megacoin bother to come here and bash it?
They must have made a bad decision, and hope to find someone to share their misery.

[digeros]

Are we talking about religion here or engineering? If I want to practice my faith I can go to church not here...

You already stated that you sold all your MEC so go troll elsewhere..

Truth hurts - go on worship your MegaGod you can always ignore me I don't give a shit.
 

My guess is you're starting to regret your foolish decision -- why else would you be here? A lot of immaturity in the crypto world, that's for sure.

BOY am I glad 1) that I didn't get involved in this stupid flame war.... and mostly 2) bought a lot of those MEC he dumped  'cause I think Mega Coin may just be the true Bitcoin 2.0...
P.S. I grew up around and worked in several departments of a computer company that used to build hardware and software for digital publishing systems and developed the laser phototypesetter that 80% of the Corporate Press publishes their propaganda on TO THIS DAY.  That company and its team of geniuses was destroyed by the financialization of the economy, (a whole year of sales reserved in cash in a bank account for R&D was too tempting for Vulture Capitalists). Later, I built/programmed ecommmerce websites when 80% of the American public thought that "no-one will share their credit card on the internet".  After That, I consulted with Yandex to launch Yandex Money.... Plus I have an advanced degree of MS in Banking and Financial Engineering from the Ecole Superieur de Commerce Toulouse, France.  so... I am just saying   ITS ABOUT ENGINEERING and Network Strength and market depth (what can we buy with it) of a crypto-currency,  not RELIGION or faith, thank you.

[sharknutzz]

[darkproton]

Good.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276455.msg3140893#msg3140893

Nice work! Spread that news.

[vtr99]

There is potentially some good news coming for Megacoin (not related to the hard fork) - will wait until it is confirmed to announce..  

Only 240 blocks to go, but the difficulty is over 10. These will be some slow blocks, but one thing is sure, Megacoin never fails to keep the suspense level pegged.  

Can't wait to hear the good news!

[raveneye]

I will just repost some of my findings from the multipool thread from yesterday.

As I understand it, the algorithm works like this:
Next Diff = (Average Diff over the last N blocks) * (150 seconds) * N / (Actual Seconds for last N blocks)
where N is a number between 144 and 4032.
The "clever" part is that N gets smaller when the diff changes quickly and N gets larger when the diff is stable.  The idea would be that when there is a quick change in hash rate, it reacts quickly.  When the hash rate is stable, it reacts slowly.

The problem is the first part of the algorithm has momentum.  This is one of the things that caused so much trouble with the transition at block 42,000.  Even after the MP switched off around block 42130, the difficulty kept climbing for about 70 more blocks (which took 2 days).

For example, if N is 144 and the coin-hoppers mine a fast 50 coins and switch off the coin, those coins will still be counted in the average used for the next difficulty while the faithful have to grind on 94 coins themselves.

The change in direction will also increase N, causing the permitted change to be smaller, and allowing those 50 fast-mined coins to linger even longer, forcing the faithful miners to spend even more time trying to create even more blocks necessary to bring difficulty back down.

The idea was clever, but not practically applied.  If instead of using block counts for PastBlockMin and PastBlockMax, he had used Time (i.e. PastSecondsMin and PastSecondsMax), then used blocks/hour instead of hours (seconds) per block for the calculation. That way if the coin slows down to 2-4 blocks per hour, it doesn't take days of grinding to get the 50-100 blocks needed to push the fast blocks out of the window of consideration.

Hopefully, I am wrong and it stays profitable to mine for the faithful and keeps producing blocks.  Unfortunately, I think that every time it gets marginally profitable to mine, MP, MC and CC will slap it down and create problem like it had with block 42,000 where transactions don't confirm and 2 guys are stuck mining it for days waiting for it to recover, only to get slapped down and have to repeat the cycle.

To give some real numbers, last night, when middlecoin, multipool, and coinchoose were off mec, it took 16 hours to generate 60 blocks, about half of what would be required to push fast block out of the minimum 144  block consideration window.  That was with a descent profitability.  If profitability drops to a very undesirable level, like around block 42159-42219, mining 60 blocks took 3.5 days.

Your math is off if that's the conclusion you are coming to. Obviously we'll see how it plays out in production...but to me it seems like a smart formula that will adapt well while also keeping things more consistent and under control. There might be some slow blocks still in there...but as soon as they're found the difficulty will start to plunge rapidly.

I am curious what math you have done and what conclusions you have come to based on it.  What are you expecting in terms of how quickly will diff adjust once the heavy hash rates hit the coin, how far will it change in that time, how long will it take dedicated hashers to mine blocks by themselves, and how much will it cost miners to mine MEC full time vs. the established coins like LTC or FTC?  Or are you just assuming everything will work fine without thinking about it, like so many others around here and rejecting what I am saying because of normalcy bias?

Anyway, the die is cast, and we will all start finding out tomorrow.  Hopefully, Friday the 13th is not unlucky for MEC.

[kimoto]

Emergency Fork Recall.

Stop mining now.

Will explain after an instant fork (not block 63,005) a few hours later.

Hardly noticeable, damage should be minimal, but must be fixed.  

-Kimoto